Its so clear we have to get some grindyness (toughness and thugness)

[OVO16]

Weird timing when we just got destroyed by a line of Stamkos, Point and Kucherov. How gritty is that line?

Maybe if our defense wasn’t buttercup soft, we wouldn’t be letting that kind go off like they did.

Maybe not giving them free passes to the net. Maybe playing the body a bit mode so they don’t get free to just take shots from anymore. Maybe getting in their grill a bit to take them off their game.

Did you see the way Hedman, Cernak, McDonough, Coburn we’re clearing our softies away from the net?

Oh and by the way...Stamkos/Kucherov/Points is a lot grittier than our cream puffs Mathews/Tavares/Marner/Nylander.

Those 3 guys actually have an attitude to their game and play the body a lot more than our guys ever will

 

[robertmac43]

-Play the body
-Tough along the boards
- Knock people over on their asses instead of poke checking
- Clear the front of the net with some purpose
-Stop with the soft flybys and actually crosscheck the other opposition player
-Play with some goddamn grit in your game
-Play with some damn attitude

Why though? This team has been programmed to beat people by moving their feet, not finishing hits behind the play. I also don't get why this is a notion, did we not out hit the Bruins last year? Give me more skill any day of the week.

 

[OVO16]

He is very much below replacement though? Why keep him in the NHL ?

Why keep Marincin and Holl in the NHL? They’re NHL level either.

Besides...gravel looked better than Holl in the preseason. The only reason Holl got a chance is because he’s a RD

 

[robertmac43]

Why keep Marincin and Holl in the NHL? They’re NHL level either.

Besides...gravel looked better than Holl in the preseason. The only reason Holl got a chance is because he’s a RD

Holl has looked pretty solid thus far. Especially on the PK. Based off of that and the fact that he is in fact a RHD, does it not make more sense to take him?

 

[OVO16]

Why though? This team has been programmed to beat people by moving their feet, not finishing hits behind the play. I also don't get why this is a notion, did we not out hit the Bruins last year? Give me more skill any day of the week.

They out hit us in the game that mattered. Sean kuraly of all people feasted on our defense with the relentless checking.

And it’s not just a bout hitting. You’re completely missing the point I made in the originally post you quoted.

Just pure Skill led us to 2 first rd exits. We need to combine playoff grit to go with the skill.

If you don’t get that, than don’t expect to win playoff series

 

[OVO16]

Holl has looked pretty solid thus far. Especially on the PK. Based off of that and the fact that he is in fact a RHD, does it not make more sense to take him?

Holl has been meh. Plus he’s soft and doesn’t use his big frame at all. Gravel would be better

 

[robertmac43]

Just pure Skill led us to 2 first rd exits. We need to combine playoff grit to go with the skill.

I get the sentiment here, I really do. I think when it comes to the playoffs the rules chance too much with how the Refs swallow their whistles . I think there is a level of intensity that needs to come out of our players to battle through that stuff, I don't think it needs to come from adding grittier players - which may not even be what you are saying :p

 

[Subway Schenn]

Quality OP. Would read again.

 

[Morbo]

.870 goaltending through 5 games and league average shooting percentage

OH MY GOODNESS GRACIOUS WE NEED TO BE TOUGHER

Notice how these toughness threads don't show up unless we lose a game.

apparently when we win we're tough.

 

[All Mod Cons]

Why though? This team has been programmed to beat people by moving their feet, not finishing hits behind the play. I also don't get why this is a notion, did we not out hit the Bruins last year? Give me more skill any day of the week.

As he said, it's much much more than hitting people. He listed it all out.

 

[robertmac43]

As he said, it's much much more than hitting people. He listed it all out.

Yes he did. But it was still around grit for the most part. I'm not really talking about grit

 

[ottomaddox]

This topic gets brought up every year and that proved that it’s clearly an issue that hasn’t gotten taken care of yet.

This thread also get derailed by the same posters with the same claims...completely misunderstanding the situation.

- No one wants Goons on this team
- No one is talking specifically about fighting or having the ability to fight
- You don’t even have to be a fierce hitter or a constant hitter

What we need is players who actually

-Play the body
-Tough along the boards
- Knock people over on their asses instead of poke checking
- Clear the front of the net with some purpose
-Stop with the soft flybys and actually crosscheck the other opposition player
-Play with some goddamn grit in your game
-Play with some damn attitude

- And yeah...having a 4th line that can skate, hit and create energy would be great too.

This team is marshmallow soft. We’re never gonna be playoff ready

I like this post a lot.

People use PIT as the most recent example of skill conquering all. They played hard / heavy hockey too. They just happen to have more speed than others.

Doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result = Dubas and Insanity.

 

[AllDay28]

Everyone in this thread has the answers but yet none have a job in the NHL.. ya'll should be applying. Get those Brian Burke type teams set up.. see how little playoffs you make..

 

[ryno23]

this team is built for the regular season with tons of skill and speed. In the regular season the refs call a tight game and Leafs can use their skill to dictate pace of the game and earn PP's. Come playoff time that is no longer the case and you can basically start the clutch and grab era and the deeper teams go into the playoffs the more the game gets grittier and more grinding. Leafs are not built for the playoffs.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Agree but the "good" Andy masks the warts this team has. Better to recognise it and deal with it earlier than later. The team lacks a big shutdown dman that can make Andy's life easier.

This is part of the problem with the whole "skilled puck moving D-men" that seems to be entrenched in our philosophy. Having a Barrie-Muzzin combo works because you have 1 of each type. Having 5/6 being "puck movers" is just stupid IMO. I keep saying this but here it goes again: Even the best puck moving offensive D will still have to play 40% of the time in their own zone...40%!! So I don't care how good he is offensively if he can't play in his own zone. This infatuation with these smaller guys is stupid if you can't pair them up with a bigger guy who can stop a cycle or knows how to play D. I don't understand why this is not more obvious to Dubas...

 

[Coachcorner]

this team is built for the regular season with tons of skill and speed. In the regular season the refs call a tight game and Leafs can use their skill to dictate pace of the game and earn PP's. Come playoff time that is no longer the case and you can basically start the clutch and grab era and the deeper teams go into the playoffs the more the game gets grittier and more grinding. Leafs are not built for the playoffs.

A whole loads of truth there sire. A whole lot. Y'all know the game period. Also uh, the hard players who check and do the dirt, talk the talk and make everybody angry also (slow down the game), they make different types of impacts to the game and then the game just stands still. It's whistled away and nobody even plays. This is importantte mui, especially in the playoffs. You gotta hustle and cheat. Its not all bout that skill and goals. We need protection, hustle, dirt, game, slow down that roll, talk, energizing other buddies with hits and checks, talk everythang. Petan - gauthier - spezza aint' doin it. They losing some though, allowing goals and taking weak penalties.

 

[ShaneFalco]

We've been down this road and had Martin and other guys with sandpaper. But finding a guy who can also play the game is the tough part

When Agostino gets in, Hyman, Muzzin, Ceci, Soup, Dermott, Moore, Mango, kap.....can all play with some jam.

 

[Trapper]

Why though? This team has been programmed to beat people by moving their feet, not finishing hits behind the play. I also don't get why this is a notion, did we not out hit the Bruins last year? Give me more skill any day of the week.

I’ll take 20 skilled guys but what comes with the skill? What’s the rest of the package? Johnsson has skill. So does Domi and Gallagher.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Foie Gras doesn't toughen up into Beef Jerky.

 

[ottomaddox]

Everyone in this thread has the answers but yet none have a job in the NHL.. ya'll should be applying. Get those Brian Burke type teams set up.. see how little playoffs you make..

This is a ridiculous post. Why must it be one or the other? You're using the worst example of a bad Leaf team, opposed to leaf teams in the past that won playoff rounds and were tough.

That truculent Burke team was gutted. They had no Sundin, no goaltending, no talented wingers, etc.

If you substitute 2 players with jam/toughness you'll finally see some results in the playoffs.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Yup. A couple more body checks or slashes clearly would have prevented us from allowing 7 goals. Could have gritted a few more goals into the net as well.

 

[stickty111]

 

[CelticDruid]

Would love to see Reilly throw one big that lays out an opposing forward - he has the size and skating ability to do so, but I don't think he has the temperament to inflict damage.

Holl is another one that has the size to crunch opposing forwards, but fails to use it adequately.

 

[DueDiligence]

I’ll take 20 skilled guys but what comes with the skill? What’s the rest of the package? Johnsson has skill. So does Domi and Gallagher.

And Brad Marchand!

 

[CDN24]

I’ll take 20 skilled guys but what comes with the skill? What’s the rest of the package? Johnsson has skill. So does Domi and Gallagher.

Exactly Grit and skill need not be mutually exclusive. What is grit anyway. IMO it need not be big strong, hitting everything that moves. Grit is work ethic, desire, determination and a refusal to be beaten on a play whether you are up by 3, down by three or anything in between. Gallagher is one of the greatest examples of that type of grit. He has talent sure, but that's not what got him to the NHL. He never takes a night off, or a shift. He backchecks as hard as he forechecks. He makes you earn every inch against him. Plays the same way even in a game where his team is trailing by 3. He'll also take all the abuse you can direct at him and get up with that shit-eating grin that drives opponents off the deep end. Grit plays for the crest on the front and not the name on the back. Team success means more than individual stats.

Guys like Gallagher, Wendel Clark, Gary Roberts - that's grit. Guys like Spezza never had it not even in their prime. Great offensive talent but you could time him back checkinng with a sundial. On that note, anyone notice AM34 coasting back into the D zone on the Shattenkirk goal.