Isles Prospect Talk 2020-21

[CupHolders]

I don't continuously watch Greene on the ice, but based on a handful of advanced stats, he is typically in the Bailey, Ross and Timashov grouping as the least effective Islanders, while also far and away the worst Isles defenseman.

I haven’t really focused on Greene. But I would assume the decision to rest Greene will not be based on widely available advanced stats.

Andy Greene is microcosm of Trotz’s system. His game is positioning, winning one-on-one battles and blocking shots. If for example the opposition gets three shot attempts, but no quality chances that’s likely fine by Greene and Trotz standards.

But I would expect Trotz to give Greene a rest from time to time this year due to his age. Would help if the Isles could get in a comfortable position in order to do so.

 

[danteipp]

I haven’t really focused on Greene. But I would assume the decision to rest Greene will not be based on widely available advanced stats.

Andy Greene is microcosm of Trotz’s system. His game is positioning, winning one-on-one battles and blocking shots. If for example the opposition gets three shot attempts, but no quality chances that’s likely fine by Greene and Trotz standards.

But I would expect Trotz to give Greene a rest from time to time this year due to his age. Would help if the Isles could get in a comfortable position in order to do so.

Here is the thing, how Greene is being deployed appears to have materially changed, at least so far this season.

Over the past five seasons, Greene has typically taken defensive zone starts (at even strength) in the range of anywhere from approximately 60-69% of the time, while getting only around 40-30% of the offensive zone starts.

Yet this season, he is only at 51.2% for defensive zone starts vs. 48.8% offensive zone starts.

With Toews and Boychuk gone, we could probably expect every Isles defenseman's role to change a bit, but Greene should still be seeing more defensive zone starts and, given his current abilities at 38 years old, is a complete blackhole offensively.

How Greene is being used, at even strength, simply doesn't make a lot of sense. Meanwhile, Scott Mayfield is making 59.3% defensive zone starts and has seemingly really emerged in that role for Trotz.

It is why I have said in the past that it might make more sense pairing Leddy and Dobson together (taking whatever lumps you have to from Dobson while he grows), especially to try and capitalize offensively on their abilities, then use Greene and Mayfield together, in a very defined role.

I know it is ultimately about Barry's system, but the usage is strange (just like Uncle Leo's usage), and it feels like there is still some upside to be had with some tweaks.

The Isles have also been lucky (at least so far, knock on wood) with respect to injuries on defense. However, I also wouldn't mind seeing Aho (or whoever they deem best, based on practice reps) get some experience now vs. being forced into an emergency role at crunchtime.

 

[Strummergas]

Here is the thing, how Greene is being deployed appears to have materially changed, at least so far this season.

Over the past five seasons, Greene has typically taken defensive zone starts (at even strength) in the range of anywhere from approximately 60-69% of the time, while getting only around 40-30% of the offensive zone starts.

Yet this season, he is only at 51.2% for defensive zone starts vs. 48.8% offensive zone starts.

With Toews and Boychuk gone, we could probably expect every Isles defenseman's role to change a bit, but Greene should still be seeing more defensive zone starts and, given his current abilities at 38 years old, is a complete blackhole offensively.

How Greene is being used, at even strength, simply doesn't make a lot of sense. Meanwhile, Scott Mayfield is making 59.3% defensive zone starts and has seemingly really emerged in that role for Trotz.

It is why I have said in the past that it might make more sense pairing Leddy and Dobson together (taking whatever lumps you have to from Dobson while he grows), especially to try and capitalize offensively on their abilities, then use Greene and Mayfield together, in a very defined role.

I know it is ultimately about Barry's system, but the usage is strange (just like Uncle Leo's usage), and it feels like there is still some upside to be had with some tweaks.

The Isles have also been lucky (at least so far, knock on wood) with respect to injuries on defense. However, I also wouldn't mind seeing Aho (or whoever they deem best, based on practice reps) get some experience now vs. being forced into an emergency role at crunchtime.

I think Greene's use has everything to do with being paired with Dobson. As Dobson continues to develop and improve, we may very well see him paired with Leddy, and Mayfield paired with Greene. At that point, Greene's deployment will be much better suited to his abilities.

 

[CupHolders]

Here is the thing, how Greene is being deployed appears to have materially changed, at least so far this season.

Over the past five seasons, Greene has typically taken defensive zone starts (at even strength) in the range of anywhere from approximately 60-69% of the time, while getting only around 40-30% of the offensive zone starts.

Yet this season, he is only at 51.2% for defensive zone starts vs. 48.8% offensive zone starts.

With Toews and Boychuk gone, we could probably expect every Isles defenseman's role to change a bit, but Greene should still be seeing more defensive zone starts and, given his current abilities at 38 years old, is a complete blackhole offensively.

How Greene is being used, at even strength, simply doesn't make a lot of sense. Meanwhile, Scott Mayfield is making 59.3% defensive zone starts and has seemingly really emerged in that role for Trotz.

It is why I have said in the past that it might make more sense pairing Leddy and Dobson together (taking whatever lumps you have to from Dobson while he grows), especially to try and capitalize offensively on their abilities, then use Greene and Mayfield together, in a very defined role.

I know it is ultimately about Barry's system, but the usage is strange (just like Uncle Leo's usage), and it feels like there is still some upside to be had with some tweaks.

The Isles have also been lucky (at least so far, knock on wood) with respect to injuries on defense. However, I also wouldn't mind seeing Aho (or whoever they deem best, based on practice reps) get some experience now vs. being forced into an emergency role at crunchtime.

I especially agree with this. It was infuriating how many times the Snow/Capuano Isles in the very little playoff experience they had... still found ways to be forced to use untested d-man due to lack of depth. What was stupid, was that it was a product of deciding to have Brian Strait consistently in the lineup during the regular season.

 

[The Real JT]

2 more goals for William Dufour in the Q today. That’s 14 in 17 games.

First one started with a nice block of the opposition’s shot from the point in his own zone followed by him outskating the trailing Dman to score glove side on a breakaway.

 

[Uncle Duke]

According to my eye test, Mayfield has been our worst defenseman, but according Corey Haber, it's Greene by a mile (latest Island Ice). Take that for what it's worth. But really, what did we expect from a 38 yr old guy who's been through the wars on mostly bad teams? He's not the physical freak that Chelios was or Chara is. We got a nice playoffs out of him but he should be defensive insurance and not an everyday guy, unfortunately that's where we are.

 

[Uncle Duke]

2 more goals for William Dufour in the Q today. That’s 14 in 17 games.

First one started with a nice block of the opposition’s shot from the point in his own zone followed by him outskating the trailing Dman to score glove side on a breakaway.

Got a clip by any chance?

 

[The Real JT]

According to my eye test, Mayfield has been our worst defenseman, but according Corey Haber, it's Greene by a mile (latest Island Ice). Take that for what it's worth. But really, what did we expect from a 38 yr old guy who's been through the wars on mostly bad teams? He's not the physical freak that Chelios was or Chara is. We got a nice playoffs out of him but he should be defensive insurance and not an everyday guy, unfortunately that's where we are.

The video was up on the Q site and promptly taken down. Can’t find it now.

Both goals shorthanded btw.

 

[Tahoeblue]

Does anyone know why Aho is on IR? Is it legit, or is it the wink hang nail isles special? I would like to see him play on back to back game against a more favorable opponent. I like Greene, but I think he can be spelled some.

 

[The Real JT]

Dufour’s Drummondville team was up 2-0 then loses in OT 3-2 after he takes a penalty and the opponent scores on the PP.

Well, mostly good I suppose.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Dufour’s Drummondville team was up 2-0 then loses in OT 3-2 after he takes a penalty and the opponent scores on the PP.

Well, mostly good I suppose.

Well, he'll be ready to be an Islander.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Does anyone know why Aho is on IR? Is it legit, or is it the wink hang nail isles special? I would like to see him play on back to back game against a more favorable opponent. I like Greene, but I think he can be spelled some.

On the taxi squad. Currently Dman #7.

In light of him not being in the line-up since Weight was the coach, seems like they just don't think much of him as an option.

 

[ekill08x]

On the taxi squad. Currently Dman #7.

In light of him not being in the line-up since Weight was the coach, seems like they just don't think much of him as an option.

Yeah he seems like another player we as fans love to completely overrate.

 

[Uncle Duke]

Yeah he seems like another player we as fans love to completely overrate.

It's the name.

 

[Seph]

On the taxi squad. Currently Dman #7.

In light of him not being in the line-up since Weight was the coach, seems like they just don't think much of him as an option.

I dont know about that -- Lou resigned him just back in October to a 2 year deal with the 2nd year being 1way, so I do think Lou sees him as potentially being an NHL dman for the Islanders this season or next.

 

[DerekKingSnipes]

I dont know about that -- Lou resigned him just back in October to a 2 year deal with the 2nd year being 1way, so I do think Lou sees him as potentially being an NHL dman for the Islanders this season or next.

He hasn’t improved enough in his own end since he played here two years ago, offensively he is really good but his lack of size and defensive play holds him back.

 

[danteipp]

I think Greene's use has everything to do with being paired with Dobson. As Dobson continues to develop and improve, we may very well see him paired with Leddy, and Mayfield paired with Greene. At that point, Greene's deployment will be much better suited to his abilities.

That should definitely be the goal, to get Dobson comfortable enough where he can be paired with Leddy, then match Greene and Mayfield. So as to best maximize their individual strengths.

 

[danteipp]

According to my eye test, Mayfield has been our worst defenseman, but according Corey Haber, it's Greene by a mile (latest Island Ice). Take that for what it's worth. But really, what did we expect from a 38 yr old guy who's been through the wars on mostly bad teams? He's not the physical freak that Chelios was or Chara is. We got a nice playoffs out of him but he should be defensive insurance and not an everyday guy, unfortunately that's where we are.

Greene has been solid defensively and scoring suppression, essentially what you would typically expect from him.

The problem is that he is the vet training aid for Dobson and put in too many offensive and possession situations, where he is simply an abomination.

The sooner Dobson is comfortable and paired with Leddy, with Greene and Mayfield together, the better it will be for the Isles.

 

[xECK29x]

 

[Uncle Duke]

Greene has been solid defensively and scoring suppression, essentially what you would typically expect from him.

The problem is that he is the vet training aid for Dobson and put in too many offensive and possession situations, where he is simply an abomination.

The sooner Dobson is comfortable and paired with Leddy, with Greene and Mayfield together, the better it will be for the Isles.

I like Greene, he's done everything asked of him and everything he was brought to the Isles to do but I think the "vet training" role, while a nice story line and justification, has been at least as much window dressing as actual fact. The number one reason he's playing is because he's the best we can do at the moment and so pairing him with Dobber makes the most sense.

 

[Seph]

He hasn’t improved enough in his own end since he played here two years ago, offensively he is really good but his lack of size and defensive play holds him back.

You could well be right, but all I'm pointing out is that apparently Lou thinks he'll be NHL ready within that timeframe, otherwise why else would he give him the 1way deal on the 2nd year?

 

[MJF]

"Volvo plant here I come"

- Josh Ho-Sang, 2021

 

[danteipp]

I like Greene, he's done everything asked of him and everything he was brought to the Isles to do but I think the "vet training" role, while a nice story line and justification, has been at least as much window dressing as actual fact. The number one reason he's playing is because he's the best we can do at the moment and so pairing him with Dobber makes the most sense.

To start the year, Barry seemingly attempted to pair Greene with Dobson as often as possible. Even if it was a detriment having an offensive blackhole, like Greene, get unnecessary offensive zone starts.

However, in looking at just this last game, Barry made a big change, instead of keeping Greene at a near 50/50 offensive vs defensive zone starts, Greene was deployed at 5-9, which is how he should be used.

If Barry is starting to relax his defensive pairings to try to exploit matchups and zone starts more, we will see Dobson with Leddy (or maybe even Pelech) and then Greene paired with Mayfield, who has seen ~60% defensive zone starts.

I don't think it is a coincidence that the Isles play arguably their most complete game by using the strengths of the defensemen to their best advantage. I want to see more of that.

 

[xECK29x]

Some notes:
- WHL scheduled to return to play in a few weeks

+ = on IR or just hurt

PLAYER	POS	ACQUIRED	HFB RANK	TEAM	GP	G	A	PTS	PIM	+/-
Noah Dobson	D	2018 round 1 #12	1	New York Islanders / NHL	13	1	5	6	4	-1
Oliver Wahlstrom	RW/LW	2018 round 1 #11	3	AIK / HockeyAllsvenskan	10	4	4	8	8	-2
				* New York Islanders / NHL	6	1	0	1	2	2
Simon Holmstrom	RW	2019 round 1 #23	8	HC Vita Hasten / HockeyAllsvenskan	11	1	1	2	2	0
				* Bridgeport / AHL	3	0	1	1	0	-3
				Sweden U20 Team	5	0	5	5	2	2
Josh Ho-Sang	RW	2014 round 1 #28	GRAD	Orebro HK / SHL	5	0	1	1	2	-1
				* Linkoping HC / SHL
Kieffer Bellows	LW	2016 round 1 #19	4	New York Islanders / NHL	7	0	0	0	0	1
Bode Wilde	D	2018 round 2 #41	5	Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	2	0	0	0	4	-1
Arnaud Durandeau	LW	2017 round 6 #165		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	1	0	0	0	0	-2
A.J. Greer	LW	Trade		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	0	1	1	4	-2
Cole Coskey	RW	2019 round 7 #209		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	1	1	0	1	2	2
Robert Carpenter	LW/C	FA		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	2	0	2	0	-1
Parker Wotherspoon	D	2015 round 4 #112		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	0	0	0	4	-2
Felix Bibeau	C	2019 round 6 #178		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	2	0	1	1	0	2
Mitchell Vande Sompel	D	2015 round 3 #82		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	0	1	1	2	-2
Samuel Bolduc	D	2019 round 2 #57	7	Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	1	1	2	2	0
Sebastian Aho	D	2017 round 5 #139	9	New York Islanders / NHL	0	0	0	0	0	0
Grant Hutton	D	FA	11	Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	3	0	1	1	4	1
Blade Jenkins	LW/C	2018 round 5 #134		Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	1	0	0	0	0	-1
Anatoli Golyshev	LW/RW	2016 round 4 #95		Avtomobilist Yekaterinburg / KHL	47	12	15	27	28	3
Ruslan Iskhakov	C/RW	2018 round 2 #43		TPS / Liiga	30	4	16	20	8	5
Robin Salo	D	2017 round 2 #46	10	Orebro HK / SHL	39	5	20	25	14	13
William Dufour	RW	2020 round 5 #152		Drummondville Voltigeurs / QMJHL	18	14	10	24	26	2
Alexander Ljungkrantz	LW	2020 round 3 #90		Brynas IF J20 / J20 Nationell	16	8	7	15	12	7
				Brynas IF / SHL	13	0	0	0	0	0
				* Stromsbro IF / Ettan	9	6	3	9	0	2
Matias Rajaniemi	D	2020 round 6 #183		* Pelicans / Liiga	30	1	5	6	16	-2
				Finland U20 Team	6	0	0	0	0	2
Otto Koivula	C/LW	2016 round 4 #120	6	HIFK / Liiga	14	3	8	11	10	1
				* Bridgeport Sound Tigers / AHL	1	0	0	0	0	-2
Reece Newkirk	C	2019 round 5 #147	13	* Portland / WHL	0	0	0	0	0	0
				Melville Millionaires / SJHL	6	4	8	12	2	-
Jacob Pivonka	C	2018 round 4 #103		Univ. of Notre Dame / NCAA	22	1	3	4	8	-7
Collin Adams	LW	2016 round 6 #170		Univ. of North Dakota / NCAA	20	7	12	19	8	7
Logan Cockerill	LW/RW	2016 round 7 #201		Boston Univ. ("C") / NCAA	6	4	1	5	4	5
Christian Krygier	D	2018 round 7 #196		Michigan State Univ. / NCAA	19	1	2	3	44	1
Benjamin Mirageas	D	2017 round 3 #77		Providence College / NCAA	19	1	8	9	16	6
Alex Jefferies	LW	2019 round 4 #121	12	Merrimack College / NCAA	11	4	6	10	2	-3
GOALIES					GP	GAA	SV%	SO	W-L-T
Ilya Sorokin	G	2014 round 3 #78	1	New York Islanders / NHL	3	3.65	.871	0	0-2-1
Henrik Tikkanen	G	2020 round 7 #214		* IPK / Mestis	11	3.26	.878	0	6-4-1
				Kalpa / Liiga	2	2.04	.917	0	1-1-0
Jakub Skarek	G	2018 round 3 #72		Pelitat / Mestis	4	4.44	.833	0	0-3-1
				* Bridgeport / AHL	3	4.06	.857	0	0-3-0

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[The Real JT]

"Volvo plant here I come"

- Josh Ho-Sang, 2021

Like most here, I say I'm done with him but I can't help but watch.

It's kind of like rubbernecking at an accident on the side of the highway.

I really do hope he turns it around. At this point, I know it's remarkably unlikely and it's also not going to happen in this organization.

Pass the popcorn.