Prospect Info: Isles Prospect Talk 2019-20 | Part II

[eoin92]

Naturally, very different eras. The AHL hasn't even had many 70-point guys in recent years.

I had bumped into a number of Isles scouts back between 2011-2016 and they were more than 3.

But not by much.

I would find it very interesting to find out how that department in particular functions differently than during the Snow/Wang days?!

There's been 13 picks and three college UFAs added in Lamoriello's almost 2 seasons at the helm.

Precious few trades made overall, at any level. So the three deals made around this trade deadline were basically mindblowing in comparison to the previous 1.5 years of Lamoriello's time here.

But there's really no telling how that department has been utilized during this time.

I guess Chris getting to add guys like Brubacher can be seen as a product of our scouting department.

What can we expect now with another 5-pick draft that doesn't start until the 3rd round?

Last time we didn’t have a first round pick, we got Barzal and Beauvillier. Who knows.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Last time we didn’t have a first round pick, we got Barzal and Beauvillier. Who knows.

True (although, we didn't have one in the Vegas expansion draft year either).

But what happened the last time we didn't have a 1st or 2nd?

 

[eoin92]

True.

But what happened the last time we didn't have a 1st or 2nd?

Ah. I suppose we will see.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Last time we didn’t have a first round pick, we got Barzal and Beauvillier. Who knows.

See 2017

True.

But what happened the last time we didn't have a 1st or 2nd?

See 07 and 01 drafts . Not good . Not good would actually be good in those Islander drafts .

 

[eoin92]

See 2017




See 07 and 01 drafts . Not good . Not good would actually be good in those Islander drafts .

Forgot about that one. What a terrible trade.

 

[Sparksrus3]

Forgot about that one. What a terrible trade.

Guys like Pelech,Mayfield,Nelson were on our mock expansion bubble/unprotected list. All 3 have really stepped up since that draft. Vegas picked Brannstrum with our pick in the first. How's he coming along not that we would have picked him. Not sure about the 2nd rounder. Remember Vegas took the Grabovski $$$ too. It was more than just making sure they took Berube. Looking back I don't see it as terrible. In Islander country there are levels of terrible we all can comfortably live with. Stay safe

 

[eoin92]

Guys like Pelech,Mayfield,Nelson were on our mock expansion bubble/unprotected list. All 3 have really stepped up since that draft. Vegas picked Brannstrum with our pick in the first. How's he coming along not that we would have picked him. Not sure about the 2nd rounder. Remember Vegas took the Grabovski $$$ too. It was more than just making sure they took Berube. Looking back I don't see it as terrible. In Islander country there are levels of terrible we all can comfortably live with. Stay safe

I suppose you’re right in some aspects. However, at the time of this deal, the general consensus, at least among fans, was that this deal was made to protect de Haan. Dumping Grabovski and Berube, while holding on to Nelson, Mayfield and Pelech is a good deal. If this deal was made to protect de Haan, then it’s a crap deal.

 

[danteipp]

Garth failed in the expansion draft because he failed to add to the existing core, to make it a legitimate contender, and then Tavares and CdH walked away for nothing. He either needed to get them signed to team-friendly deals or trade them for better assets than he gave to Vegas.

Unfortunately, everything went wrong with respect to CdH, in that he got hurt so he couldn't be traded and then departed as a free agent. CdH has had a terrible run of injuries lately, but ultimately it is on the GM to do the best for his team while weighing medical insight and potential risk vs reward.

Obviously, Tavares was a complete disaster. No need to go any further on that topic.

Having watched a lot of Bridgeport games, I was always high on Pulock, Pelech and Mayfield, so I could understand wanting to retain them. But in the end, Snow botched the expansion draft. Maybe not as badly as teams like Florida, Columbus, etc. but there is a lesson to be learned.

Better to give up one known asset, than overpay with multiple, high-end futures. I don't think Seattle is going to be as lucky as Vegas. Not when so many teams are cap strapped. Teams will be able to live with losing veteran players who might be on reasonable deals, since the original teams can live with the loss for valuable cap space.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

I suppose you’re right in some aspects. However, at the time of this deal, the general consensus, at least among fans, was that this deal was made to protect de Haan. Dumping Grabovski and Berube, while holding on to Nelson, Mayfield and Pelech is a good deal. If this deal was made to protect de Haan, then it’s a crap deal.

Ultimately, the moves Snow made protected all of the following except the very expendable Berube:
Josh Bailey (F)
Steve Bernier (F)
Eric Boulton (F)
Jason Chimera (F)
Casey Cizikas (F)
Cal Clutterbuck (F)
Stephen Gionta (F)
Ben Holmstrom (F)
Bracken Kearns (F)
Nikolay Kulemin (F)
Brock Nelson (F)
Shane Prince (F)
Alan Quine (F)
Ryan Strome (F)
Johan Sundstrom (F)
Calvin de Haan (D)
Matthew Finn (D)
Jesse Graham (D)
Thomas Hickey (D)
Loic Leduc (D)
Scott Mayfield (D)
Dennis Seidenberg (D)
Jean-Francois Berube (G)
Christopher Gibson (G)
Jaroslav Halak (G)

That said, I think the lesson we can take from the 2017 expansion draft for the next one is that you've gotta let Seattle take a guy and move on.

In light of what Lou did this spring in jettisoning a 1st and two 2nd rounders, the last thing this club should be doing is pawning off more picks and prospects to "protect" certain players.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

For what it's worth...

In a recent The Athletic article from Arthur Staple, he took a look at our prospects playing in juniors and college. One guy he mentioned was Kyle MacLean, who was added to the organization on an AHL contract. He ended up going back to junior, but Staple felt it necessary to view him as a prospect.

Certainly sounds like a Lamoriello guy, even aside from his father being former Devil (and Lamoriello draft pick) John MacLean.

I don't know if I'm allowed to post this, so the mods can feel free to remove it if necessary:
7. Kyle MacLean, LW, Oshawa (OHL)

Undrafted
6-1, 185
2019-20: 51 GP, 13-33-46

If Holmstrom and Wahlstrom hadn’t turned pro and gone to Bridgeport, MacLean might have ended up staying all of last season with the Sound Tigers, having signed an AHL contract after Islanders training camp. His return to Oshawa for his fifth Canadian junior season produced a lot of confidence in a player who isn’t on the radar of many talent evaluators, but has the respect of every coach in the OHL.

In the OHL’s coaches poll, MacLean was named best defensive forward in the Eastern Conference for a second year in a row and best penalty killer, while being voted top three in most underrated player and hardest worker. As an overage junior player, making an impact is expected, but these are work-ethic traits that could translate to the pros and allow MacLean to develop nicely at the AHL level beginning next season.

 

[danteipp]

Interesting report on MacLean, any word on his skating ability? Because if he can skate well, with the profile of being a good defender and penalty killer, he might be able to carve out a role in the bottom six down the line. Although I assume he will need to add at least 10-20+ lbs to his current frame, in order to really compete in the NHL.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

For what it's worth...

In a recent The Athletic article from Arthur Staple, he took a look at our prospects playing in juniors and college. One guy he mentioned was Kyle MacLean, who was added to the organization on an AHL contract. He ended up going back to junior, but Staple felt it necessary to view him as a prospect.

With respect to these articles, Staple released his top 10 the other day.

What jumped out at me the most was that Bobo Carpenter was listed at 10. He missed most of the season, but seemed to do pretty well when he got back into the fray.

Interesting.

ASIDE:
I guess at this point, if we're curious about who Lou may add to the organization, we basically just need to see how many guys who played for the Devils in the 80s/90s have a yet undrafted kid playing hockey now.

Chances are, that kid makes his way here.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Interesting...

Scott Wheeler has decided to feature Robin Salo for his "The Gifted" series.

The Gifted: How Islanders prospect Robin Salo dominates...

He did the same with Bode Wilde last September.
The Gifted: Understanding Islanders prospect Bode Wilde and...

 

[xECK29x]

Interesting...

Scott Wheeler has decided to feature Robin Salo for his "The Gifted" series.

The Gifted: How Islanders prospect Robin Salo dominates...

He did the same with Bode Wilde last September.
The Gifted: Understanding Islanders prospect Bode Wilde and...

This really helps me understand Salo more as a prospect. He could really be a beast if he can improve that north/south skating

 

[leeroggy]

This really helps me understand Salo more as a prospect. He could really be a beast if he can improve that north/south skating

According to the article, that isn't likely, unlike Toews. Says upside is #4/5. North/South speed is mediocre but East/West is excellent. Specifically highlighted walking the blue line.

I went back and read his Wahlstrom post from 2018 . . . there he is very bullish on Wahlstrom and for the same reasons some of us wanted to see him given a shot with Barzal. Calls his shooting elite, playmaking very underrated (the year he led the USNDP in goals he also led in assists) and was a very good skater.

For whatever reason he did not review Dobson; guess he wanted to limit it to one per team.

 

[PK Cronin]

This really helps me understand Salo more as a prospect. He could really be a beast if he can improve that north/south skating

I think the breakdown is really good, and also applicable to a lot of NHL players that are average, but the issue is whether or not he can continue to do the things that has made him successful at lower levels as he moves up. I hope so, because I think stable defenders are much better at the bottom of the lineup than guys who excel at only one thing.

 

[Seph]

True (although, we didn't have one in the Vegas expansion draft year either).

But what happened the last time we didn't have a 1st or 2nd?

Still the 2015 draft. Our 2nd that year had been moved in the Vanek trade, and the 2nd we got from Philly in the AMac trade was moved in the Boychuk trade. The only 2nd rounder we held during the draft was the one we got in Reinhart trade, and then used to move up for Beauvillier.

Incidentally, AMac netted us half of Boychuk and the pick we used for Sorokin, so if Sorokin pans out, that'll have been quite the trade.

 

[SI]

With respect to these articles, Staple released his top 10 the other day.

What jumped out at me the most was that Bobo Carpenter was listed at 10. He missed most of the season, but seemed to do pretty well when he got back into the fray.

Interesting.

ASIDE:
I guess at this point, if we're curious about who Lou may add to the organization, we basically just need to see how many guys who played for the Devils in the 80s/90s have a yet undrafted kid playing hockey now.

Chances are, that kid makes his way here.

what was his top 10? Did he include Sorokin or Dobson? did both graduate because of age and roster status?

 

[SI]

Just rough list -

1 Dobson
2 Sorokin
3 Wahlstrom
4 Holmstrom
5 Koivula
6 Bellows
7 Wilde
8 Bolduc
9 Aho
10 Salo
11 Iskahov - GOD I hate this pick
12 Vande Sompel

Bobo at 10?

 

[SI]

For what it's worth...

In a recent The Athletic article from Arthur Staple, he took a look at our prospects playing in juniors and college. One guy he mentioned was Kyle MacLean, who was added to the organization on an AHL contract. He ended up going back to junior, but Staple felt it necessary to view him as a prospect.

Certainly sounds like a Lamoriello guy, even aside from his father being former Devil (and Lamoriello draft pick) John MacLean.

I don't know if I'm allowed to post this, so the mods can feel free to remove it if necessary:
7. Kyle MacLean, LW, Oshawa (OHL)

Undrafted
6-1, 185
2019-20: 51 GP, 13-33-46

If Holmstrom and Wahlstrom hadn’t turned pro and gone to Bridgeport, MacLean might have ended up staying all of last season with the Sound Tigers, having signed an AHL contract after Islanders training camp. His return to Oshawa for his fifth Canadian junior season produced a lot of confidence in a player who isn’t on the radar of many talent evaluators, but has the respect of every coach in the OHL.

In the OHL’s coaches poll, MacLean was named best defensive forward in the Eastern Conference for a second year in a row and best penalty killer, while being voted top three in most underrated player and hardest worker. As an overage junior player, making an impact is expected, but these are work-ethic traits that could translate to the pros and allow MacLean to develop nicely at the AHL level beginning next season.

Is the 7 - related to top 10 Isles prospects?

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Is the 7 - related to top 10 Isles prospects?

No, that was ONLY the prospects who played junior or college hockey. They were the "Amateur" prospects.

But spot 7 still put him ahead of guys like Pivonka, Krygier, Bibeau, and Cockerill.

In all, Staple did three articles:
1) Ranked the 14 picks who played college or junior hockey this year
2) Pro prospects 11-18
3) Top 10 pro prospects

There was no mixing together of the guys system-wide.

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Just rough list -

1 Dobson
2 Sorokin
3 Wahlstrom
4 Holmstrom
5 Koivula
6 Bellows
7 Wilde
8 Bolduc
9 Aho
10 Salo
11 Iskahov - GOD I hate this pick
12 Vande Sompel

Bobo at 10?

Bobo was at 10.

Salo is at 14.

PS) Whereas I don't "hate" the picking of Iskhakov, I do hate that such a prime 2nd round pick was used on him in light of the MANY solid players that were still on the board, a handful of which have already played NHL hockey. We can only hope that the long-term results make our staff look brilliant for having "risked it" with him there. That draft should be a read goodin' for us if Dobson, Wahlstrom, and Wilde just do their thing. Skarek has real possibilities and both Pivonka and Krygier haven't given reason to believe they'll eventually bid for 4th line jobs.

PPS) Very interesting Islanders drafting side note: All 7 players taken in the 2009 draft have played in the NHL. More impressive is that six of them are currently everyday NHLers, two of which captain their respective teams.
Screenshot

 

[IslesNorway]

Bobo was at 10.

Salo is at 14.

PS) Whereas I don't "hate" the picking of Iskhakov, I do hate that such a prime 2nd round pick was used on him in light of the MANY solid players that were still on the board, a handful of which have already played NHL hockey. We can only hope that the long-term results make our staff look brilliant for having "risked it" with him there. That draft should be a read goodin' for us if Dobson, Wahlstrom, and Wilde just do their thamoiing. Skarek has real possibilities and both Pivonka and Krygier haven't given reason to believe they'll eventually bid for 4th line jobs.

PPS) Very interesting Islanders drafting side note: All 7 players taken in the 2009 draft have played in the NHL. More impressive is that six of them are currently everyday NHLers, two of which captain their respective teams.
Screenshot

Hamonic and Mayfield aside, the Isles' drafting the 2nd round has been pretty poor. Picking a player like Wilde, sho's just slipped through the cracks is what it should be all about, not long shots like Ishkakov and Koskinen

 

[Chapin Landvogt]

Hamonic and Mayfield aside, the Isles' drafting the 2nd round has been pretty poor. Picking a player like Wilde, sho's just slipped through the cracks is what it should be all about, not long shots like Ishkakov and Koskinen

Agreed.

The Snow age was brutal with 2nd rounders.

I think we even joked about his habit of moving 2nd rounders to get back into the late 1st round and that it was all about avoiding having to take 2nd rounders due to his miserable track record in that round.

Of course, guys like Koskinen and Ness have eventually made it to the NHL. Took a LONG time to get here.

 

[JTToilinginToronto]

I keep forgetting Ishakov exists, until someone posted his name on this page.

He was once a second round pick. What's the general consensus on him on this board? Effectively written off?