Player Discussion Isac Lundestrom

[The Midnight Burrito]

My take while watching Isac is that he's so focused on making the right play and being in perfect defensive position that he doesnt put himself in dangerous offensive areas. As much as that is encouraging it's time for him to show he has elite offensive skills, I would hope he's being encouraged to start taking more chances and unlocking some of that offensive skill.

He's 19. He's got time. He looked fabulously talented while he was here, but unready. I think the offense will come. I dunno about Bergeron-level offense, but that kid has chops.

Edit - I should add, if ends up as good as Pahlsson, I'll still be happy.

 

[Exit Dose]

I think the issue in your logic is that making SHL at a young age does not necessarily correlate to high end offensive upside. He made the SHL at a young age because he is a mature, responsible, and cerebral player. However, there is not much evidence thus far that he has offensive upside of a Bergeron type player. That would be projecting a very steep offensive development curve.

How the hell have you completely missed that his stats in that league, during those years, were well above the norm? I wasn't even the only one to talk about that. He made the league, stuck in the league, and put up offensive numbers that most people would be happy about with a 20 year old, first round prospect. He's a 19 year old that's being handed a first line center job. The SHL isn't a feeder league like the AHL. That is not a normal thing at all. Staying competitive and winning the title is the ultimate goal there. Developing the younger players is done entirely for their sake. Unlike our lower leagues, players have to provide a reason to play them over veterans. Training the younger players is done solely to that end, not to train them for our leagues. My logic is that he has done things that only handful of prospects manage, both current and past.

 

[nbducksfan19]

How the hell have you completely missed that his stats in that league, during those years, were well above the norm? I wasn't even the only one to talk about that. He made the league, stuck in the league, and put up offensive numbers that most people would be happy about with a 20 year old, first round prospect. He's a 19 year old that's being handed a first line center job. The SHL isn't a feeder league like the AHL. That is not a normal thing at all. Staying competitive and winning the title is the ultimate goal there. Developing the younger players is done entirely for their sake. Unlike our lower leagues, players have to provide a reason to play them over veterans. Training the younger players is done solely to that end, not to train them for our leagues. My logic is that he has done things that only handful of prospects manage, both current and past.

Doing things “above the norm” does not reasonably translate to Bergeron. It is absolutely impressive for Lunderstrom, at his age, to be trusted the way he and be playing as well as he has, in the SHL. However, to expect Bergeron based on that is very optimistic.

 

[Exit Dose]

Doing things “above the norm” does not reasonably translate to Bergeron. It is absolutely impressive for Lunderstrom, at his age, to be trusted the way he and be playing as well as he has, in the SHL. However, to expect Bergeron based on that is very optimistic.

You have no idea what those numbers mean. The reality is, if he was achieving to the same extent in the CHL as he is in the SHL, you would not be raising a fuss about those predictions. You see what you think are low numbers, and that is the root of your skepticism. It is a low scoring league. The very top scorer in the league right now has 29 points in 33 games. 15 points in 42 games is very high for a young player there. They aren't just above average.

 

[Masch78]

Let's take him what he is. A very good prospect who plays an intelligent 200 foot game, was able to pay in the SHL for two seasons before the draft and is the #1 center at Lulea. Playing 24 min. is impressive for what they are and after joining the team so late.

We have a diamond in a rough here and a more than solid choice for the pick.

I'm happy with him but will not compare or judge his upside. We will see next season or maybe in 2.

 

[nbducksfan19]

You have no idea what those numbers mean. The reality is, if he was achieving to the same extent in the CHL as he is in the SHL, you would not be raising a fuss about those predictions. You see what you think are low numbers, and that is the root of your skepticism. It is a low scoring league. The very top scorer in the league right now has 29 points in 33 games. 15 points in 42 games is very high for a young player there. They aren't just above average.

You don’t seem to get it. Yes, the SHL is low scoring, and 15 points in 42 games is good and in no way average, but you are getting very carried away with your expectations. Guy could have 75 points in 30 games in the CHL and I would call you out for saying you expect him to be Bergeron.

 

[Exit Dose]

You don’t seem to get it. Yes, the SHL is low scoring, and 15 points in 42 games is good and in no way average, but you are getting very carried away with your expectations. Guy could have 75 points in 30 games in the CHL and I would call you out for saying you expect him to be Bergeron.

That would be a very stupid thing to do. But have at it, Hoss. You do know that I'm not claiming to be from the future and traveled back to the past to provide this revelation, right? This is a prospect forum. We look at what players are doing and discuss what we make of that and project what we think those players will be. Teams have employees that do similar things. They are called scouts. Now that you are caught up, welcome to the board.

 

[nbducksfan19]

That would be a very stupid thing to do. But have at it, Hoss. You do know that I'm not claiming to be from the future and traveled back to the past to provide this revelation, right? This is a prospect forum. We look at what players are doing and discuss what we make of that and project what we think those players will be. Teams have employees that do similar things. They are called scouts. Now that you are caught up, welcome to the board.

I mean just look at post likes and you can see who is likely being stupid. I don’t know if you don’t know the definition of “expect”, but to me it seems silly for you to think that Lunderstrom being Bergeron is what is most likely to happen. You apparently don’t think it is possible, but probable, that Lunderstom is as good as a Hall of Famer (potential first ballot..) because he has good, not elite, numbers in SHL. Got it.

 

[Exit Dose]

I mean just look at post likes and you can see who is likely being stupid. I don’t know if you don’t know the definition of “expect”, but to me it seems silly for you to think that Lunderstrom being Bergeron is what is most likely to happen. You apparently don’t think it is possible, but probable, that Lunderstom is as good as a Hall of Famer (potential first ballot..) because he has good, not elite, numbers in SHL. Got it.

Oh, post likes. Uh huh. Good, not elite? Yeah, I really get the sense that you have a solid enough grasp of the SHL to make that call, and not just one of many takes that span the years that I've been here of people offering up similarly off base analyses. Knowing things about that league and prospects that go through there is really something that has come through during the course of this conversation, on your part.

 

[Static]

I mean just look at post likes and you can see who is likely being stupid. I don’t know if you don’t know the definition of “expect”, but to me it seems silly for you to think that Lunderstrom being Bergeron is what is most likely to happen. You apparently don’t think it is possible, but probable, that Lunderstom is as good as a Hall of Famer (potential first ballot..) because he has good, not elite, numbers in SHL. Got it.

He said bergeron was a ceiling.

Also, using likes as a barometer for anything doesnt give you much ground in an argument.

And one more thing, for all the garbage around this team the couple things that are going well (like the kids) should be safe zones. There's plenty other things to be up in arms over. Just my opinion.

 

[nbducksfan19]

He said bergeron was a ceiling.

Also, using likes as a barometer for anything doesnt give you much ground in an argument.

And one more thing, for all the garbage around this team the couple things that are going well (like the kids) should be safe zones. There's plenty other things to be up in arms over. Just my opinion.

No he said Bergeron with more scoring was ceiling (who would that be, Crosby?). He said Bergeron was his expectation. I would agree with the assessment that Bergeron is a reasonable comp for his realistic absolute ceiling.

I do, however, agree that the kids are one father only things to enjoy from this season.

 

[nbducksfan19]

Oh, post likes. Uh huh. Good, not elite? Yeah, I really get the sense that you have a solid enough grasp of the SHL to make that call, and not just one of many takes that span the years that I've been here of people offering up similarly off base analyses. Knowing things about that league and prospects that go through there is really something that has come through during the course of this conversation, on your part.

Pot meet kettle. Guess we will just have to wait and see, but I’d gladly bet a large sum of money that Lunderstrom is not a hall of famer. Could he be, of course, is it probable, absolutely not.

 

[Exit Dose]

No he said Bergeron with more scoring was ceiling (who would that be, Crosby?). He said Bergeron was his expectation.

I did not say Bergeron with more scoring was his ceiling. I said that there was an outside chance of that, because there is always the possibility of outliers, and with a Euro league player, that possibility goes up.

Also this:
"At this point probability factors into it, and I think there are plausible scenarios in which he does better(worse too, but this is about ceiling). Bergeron is where I'm placing my expectations at the moment."

That's what I think his trajectory is towards for his ceiling. That's the reason for the 'expectations'. It's not he absolutely, definitely will be Bergeron. I think his upside is elite. I think the indicators are there.

 

[Exit Dose]

Pot meet kettle. Guess we will just have to wait and see, but I’d gladly bet a large sum of money that Lunderstrom is not a hall of famer. Could he be, of course, is it probable, absolutely not.

When you demonstrate that you have some knowledge about the subject, I'll start giving weight to what you have to say.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I did not say Bergeron with more scoring was his ceiling. I said that there was an outside chance of that, because there is always the possibility of outliers, and with a Euro league player, that possibility goes up.

Also this:
"At this point probability factors into it, and I think there are plausible scenarios in which he does better(worse too, but this is about ceiling). Bergeron is where I'm placing my expectations at the moment."

That's what I think his trajectory is towards. That's the reason for the expectations. It's not he absolutely, definitely will be Bergeron. I think his upside is elite. I think the indicators are there.

Makes zero sense, you totally contradict yourself. A player’s ceiling is the outside chance they hit their max potential..

Maybe this is just a semantics argument, but seems we have very different definitions of “expect a player to be” and what a player’s “ceiling” is.

I expect Lunderstom to be a very solid NHLer and very good 2 way center. I think his ceiling is Bergeron.

 

[Exit Dose]

Also, Bergeron with better offensive numbers would be Datsyuk, not Crosby.

 

[nbducksfan19]

When you demonstrate that you have some knowledge about the subject, I'll start giving weight to what you have to say.

Got it, because you have demonstrated pure genius? How do I demonstrate knowledge? Do I take a test or just say that I expect Comtois to be Jamie Benn?

 

[Exit Dose]

Makes zero sense, you totally contradict yourself. A player’s ceiling is the outside chance they hit their max potential..

Maybe this is just a semantics argument, but seems we have very different definitions of “expect a player to be” and what a player’s “ceiling” is.

I expect Lunderstom to be a very solid NHLer and very good 2 way center. I think his ceiling is Bergeron.

A maximum is not inherently improbable. That's something that you are adding.

 

[Exit Dose]

Got it, because you have demonstrated pure genius? How do I demonstrate knowledge? Do I take a test or just say that I expect Comtois to be Jamie Benn?

I don't even...

This can't be for real.

Edit: This conversation is over. I don't think statements like the one above are serious.

 

[nbducksfan19]

A maximum is not inherently improbable. That's something that you are adding.

Haha so you are such an amazing scout that with about 15 viewings are not only able to project his Maxum but also determine there is a relatively high probability he hits said maxum. Get outta here.

 

[nbducksfan19]

I don't even...

This can't be for real.

Edit: This conversation is over. I don't think statements like the one above are serious.

What’s crazy is I have no idea what part you think can’t be real. Clearly I was being sarcastic, but based on your player projections, I would not be surprised if you expect Comtois to be Benn.

 

[Dryish]

An outside chance of what his potential will end up being, and that being higher than what we right now expect the ceiling to be. So not that ED expects him to be better than Bergeron, or even Bergeron, but that we're predicting his ceiling to be there because it looks like it could be. And if we get really lucky, it could be even better. There, explained.

Although admittedly that's a ridiculously brave claim to make, imho. I'll buy you a few rounds, ED, if this ends up panning out because sheesh is that putting some oh-so-important internet credibility on the line for sure.

I'm thinking a better, slightly more mobile and stick-handley Saku Koivu. But then again, I am pessimistic.

 

[Masch78]

I'm thinking a better, slightly more mobile and stick-handley Saku Koivu. But then again, I am pessimistic.

If he ends up being that good we should be happy.

 

[bsu]

You guys have some ridiculous expectations...

 

[nbducksfan19]

An outside chance of what his potential will end up being, and that being higher than what we right now expect the ceiling to be. So not that ED expects him to be better than Bergeron, or even Bergeron, but that we're predicting his ceiling to be there because it looks like it could be. And if we get really lucky, it could be even better. There, explained.

Although admittedly that's a ridiculously brave claim to make, imho. I'll buy you a few rounds, ED, if this ends up panning out because sheesh is that putting some oh-so-important internet credibility on the line for sure.

I'm thinking a better, slightly more mobile and stick-handley Saku Koivu. But then again, I am pessimistic.

First paragraph still made little sense and doesn’t seem to mimic what exitdose has said at all. He has stated several times that his expectation for Lunderstom is Bergeron. Also if pessimistic is a better Saku Koivu, then I am danderously pessimistic with thinking it is most probable that he is a Jordan Stall type.