Is Tomas Plekanec underated?

[Milhouse40]

So he starts more often in the defensive zone and that is suppose to be tough minutes? What is tough about that?

Can't comment about Fenwick, don't know what that is.

So i guess, all the minutes are easy then....what's tough minutes for you?
Unless they don't exist and all the hockey world knows less than you

 

[Mr Jackpot]

So let's say our GM decides to trade him, for draft picks or a winger. Desharnais, Eller, Galchenyuk and Malhotra are our centres. What do you think would be the ideal lineup for this club, now that our terrible 2nd line C is gone?

Ideal line-up for this year is to give more ice-time to Eller or Galchy to develop for the future, the goal is to find that offensive center, move-on and either give Plek less ice-time or trade him.

The line-up in itself doesn't really matter because we're not gonna win the Cup in the next 2-3 year, the goal is simply to have a vision and develop that offensive center, it starts by reducing Plek ice-time.

I posted my ideal line-up like 3 months ago before briere was traded:
-DD 20 minutes
-Galchy 18 minutes
-Plek 14 minutes
-Briere 8 minutes

 

[Milhouse40]

what the hell is a brutal zone assignement lol?

tough competition doesn't equal playing tough minutes, playing defence is the most easy aspect of the game.

Man, your credibility goes down here.

So why do we wait for getting Galchenyuk in the middle.....ah yeah , his defensive coverage...

 

[LePoche69]

...I do think that with advanced stats, people seems to confuse "tough minutes" with "riskier minutes".

At that level of play, everything is tough. Scoring is tough. Entering the zone is tough. Going into the corner against Chara is tough (wich is something you have to do with a faceoff in the O-zone).

So to me, Plekanec isn't playing the "toughest minutes". Only the "riskier" ones. And in that regard, I think he is perfectly rated: better than average.

Reading some posters, you'd think he's the perennial Selke winner. C'mon, guys. He isn't that good, at least not anymore. Yet he's good and valuable.

I'll add something about him: He may be playing the "riskier" minutes (or tougher minutes, if you like). But the fact is: it is not tough to play against him. You'll never pay the price, he won't win more than 50% of the faceoffs, and more often than not, his line won't score. The only area where he's really THAT good, is on the PK.

Now. It looks like I'm downplaying him, but not at all. One of the top PKer in the league who's better than average at playing the "riskier minutes", it is a good thing to have. But certainly not untradable.

 

[Moen is Gone]

Ideal line-up for this year is to give more ice-time to Eller or Galchy to develop for the future, the goal is to find that offensive center, move-on and either give Plek less ice-time or trade him.

I posted my ideal line-up like 3 months ago before briere was traded:
-DD 20 minutes
-Galchy 18 minutes
-Plek 14 minutes
-Briere 8 minutes

Wait, you didn't answer my question. Plekanec was traded but you want him back to play "easy minutes" again?

 

[Milhouse40]

Ideal line-up for this year is to give more ice-time to Eller or Galchy to develop for the future, the goal is to find that offensive center, move-on and either give Plek less ice-time or trade him.

The line-up in itself doesn't really matter because we're not gonna win the Cup in the next 2-3 year, the goal is simply to develop that offensive center, it starts by reducing Plek ice-time.

I posted my ideal line-up like 3 months ago before briere was traded:
-DD 20 minutes
-Galchy 18 minutes
-Plek 14 minutes
-Briere 8 minutes

Got you....only what happens in the offensive zone matters for you.
Only points matters.

That's practically the worst set up i saw this year...everywhere. Probably watch too much of RDS.

 

[Lshap]

what the hell is a brutal zone assignement lol?

tough competition doesn't equal playing tough minutes, playing defence is the most easy aspect of the game.

Why not just say, "I didn't know that". There's no shame in reading through this thread and using it as a learning experience. Seriously dude, we've all had opinions that had to be revised based on new information.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

be revised based on new information.

No new information there, I already knew Plek had a shutdown role playing against the top opposition and that he takes most defensive face-offs, nothing new there.

 

[LePoche69]

I'm not totally sure about it, but I watch hockey since 1975, and I'm incline to believe that playing a "defensive" kind of game is easier than the opposite.

If not, there will be a lot of 50 goals scorer, and the best players at stopping them would be paid the most.

And I saw hundreds of players becoming defensive specialists because their offensive game never translated in the NHL, but I never saw a defensive specialist becoming a scoring treath.

"tough minutes" is a really subjective idea. Everything's tough in the NHL. The advanced stats only show, after the fact, that one plays more minutes against top lines, or have more defensive zone faceoffs. But is it tougher than fighting Chara in front of his net to try to score? I'd say that given his way of playing the game, Gallagher has the toughest minutes than anybody else!!!

 

[Lshap]

No new information there, I already knew Plek had a shutdown role playing against the top opposition and that he takes most defensive face-offs, nothing new there.

While you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, there's information in this thread that presents Plekanec in a way you obviously hadn't considered. Not saying everyone's right and you're wrong, but there are factors to two-way players like Plekanec that go beyond their point totals. I've learned a lot from people on these boards -- here's a chance for a new guy like you to do the same. Add to what you know and make your opinions stronger. Don't make this all about defending yourself.

 

[Adriatic]

2-way centers like Plekanec are usually underrated. Kesler, Plekanec, even Patrice Bergeron.

Wow not even in the same universe as the other two.

 

[Lshap]

I'm not totally sure about it, but I watch hockey since 1975, and I'm incline to believe that playing a "defensive" kind of game is easier than the opposite.

If not, there will be a lot of 50 goals scorer, and the best players at stopping them would be paid the most.

And I saw hundreds of players becoming defensive specialists because their offensive game never translated in the NHL, but I never saw a defensive specialist becoming a scoring treath.

"tough minutes" is a really subjective idea. Everything's tough in the NHL. The advanced stats only show, after the fact, that one plays more minutes against top lines, or have more defensive zone faceoffs. But is it tougher than fighting Chara in front of his net to try to score? I'd say that given his way of playing the game, Gallagher has the toughest minutes than anybody else!!!

"Easy" and "Tough" are subjective. Better to call the roles "Different". A defensive/two-way forward has a different job than a 1st-line forward whose main job is to score. Different zone starts, different linemates, different level of opposition = very different results. Gallagher has a damn tough job, as you said, but he's not capable of doing Plekanec's job, anymore than Plekanec could become a power-forward.

 

[LePoche69]

While you're certainly entitled to your own opinion, there's information in this thread that presents Plekanec in a way you obviously hadn't considered. Not saying everyone's right and you're wrong, but there are factors to two-way players like Plekanec that go beyond their point totals. I've learned a lot from people on these boards -- here's a chance for a new guy like you to do the same. Add to what you know and make your opinions stronger. Don't make this all about defending yourself.

I totally agree with that. This is what makes these players really valuable to their team, and there isn't that many players able to do that at a high level.

The only thing that, personnaly and subjectively, makes me believe that Plekanec is good at it, but replaceable and kinda overrated, is that yes, he's efficient, like many players in the league; but the truth is that it is not tough to play against him. He's not a beast at winning faceoffs, making you work for the puck. He's not dominant in the corners. He won't make you pay the price. He won't throw himself in front of shots. He's not really above average at forechecking. He will occasionnaly makes you feel bad because he'll score a goal, but not much. There is no star player exhausted and frustrated because he has faced Plekanec.

 

[LePoche69]

"Easy" and "Tough" are subjective. Better to call the roles "Different". A defensive/two-way forward has a different job than a 1st-line forward whose main job is to score. Different zone starts, different linemates, different level of opposition = very different results. Gallagher has a damn tough job, as you said, but he's not capable of doing Plekanec's job, anymore than Plekanec could become a power-forward.

Agree. Because the fact is, Plekanec is atrocious when going into the corner against a d-man like Chara in the offensive zone. That's why I hate reading about "he has the toughest minutes". I prefer "riskier" minutes.

 

[Kriss E]

Agree. Because the fact is, Plekanec is atrocious when going into the corner against a d-man like Chara in the offensive zone. That's why I hate reading about "he has the toughest minutes". I prefer "riskier" minutes.

Plekanec has rarely ever been atrocious.

 

[417]

I totally agree with that. This is what makes these players really valuable to their team, and there isn't that many players able to do that at a high level.

The only thing that, personnaly and subjectively, makes me believe that Plekanec is good at it, but replaceable and kinda overrated, is that yes, he's efficient, like many players in the league; but the truth is that it is not tough to play against him. He's not a beast at winning faceoffs, making you work for the puck. He's not dominant in the corners. He won't make you pay the price. He won't throw himself in front of shots. He's not really above average at forechecking. He will occasionnaly makes you feel bad because he'll score a goal, but not much. There is no star player exhausted and frustrated because he has faced Plekanec.

Good post...fully agreed

To read some posts on here about Plekanec, you'd think the Habs would be allowing 5 goals a game if they traded him.

 

[Adriatic]

Plekanec has rarely ever been atrocious.

You're right. More like invisible or afraid!

 

[Kriss E]

Good post...fully agreed

To read some posts on here about Plekanec, you'd think the Habs would be allowing 5 goals a game if they traded him.

And reading his post it's as if Plekanec is nothing but an overrated average player who's easy to play against. That's pure BS.

 

[417]

Plekanec has rarely ever been atrocious.

lol he's had his moments, just like 100% of players currently playing in the NHL.

 

[Kriss E]

You're right. More like invisible or afraid!

Absolutely. Invisble, afraid, mediocre player. He's not even that good defensively, he's just not a liability.

 

[Kriss E]

lol he's had his moments, just like 100% of players currently playing in the NHL.

Hence rarely.

 

[417]

And reading his post it's as if Plekanec is nothing but an overrated average player who's easy to play against. That's pure BS.

Well the "easy to play against" vs "hard to play against" is totally subjective.

I have to agree with him, I don't think there's a player who fears facing Tomas Plekanec when they play the Habs.

I guess it depends how you define "hard to play against".

 

[25get]

Let's say the average team is giving 2.75 GPG during regular season.
Would it be fair to think that the average GPG PO is lower?
Because difference between .64 ppg and .61 ppg is very small same as going from 2.75 to 2.62.

Do we have any stats about this?

Also it seems common sense to think that starting in defensive zone makes it more difficult to score.
I am not talking about face-off only but who has the puck when the player jumps on the ice.

 

[Kriss E]

Well the "easy to play against" vs "hard to play against" is totally subjective.

I have to agree with him, I don't think there's a player who fears facing Tomas Plekanec when they play the Habs.

I guess it depends how you define "hard to play against".

I don't think anybody fears playing any of our players. That's not an argument.

 

[417]

Hence rarely.

lol fair enough...

I don't want to get into a semantics debate here, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that he's overrated around here.