Is Tomas Plekanec underated?
- Thread starter Mr Jackpot
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I think its fair to say that he hes rated, whether its over or under is purely theoretical.
Plekanec is one of these players who is just rated, not overcooked and not too early out of the oven.
Well.. if you look at the stats of last playoff to judge a player.. Bourque and Eller were our first liners. Pacioretty and Vanek were decent and Briere, Gionta, DD, Weise are on the same level offensively.
Point is: stats don't tell always tell the whole story.
Point is: stats don't tell always tell the whole story.
jpchabby
Drive for 25
- Mar 3, 2006
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Exactly... Plekanec is really a player whose d stats are misleading.
He's never been that good in face-offs, his plus minus is usually average (unless I'm mistaken), but his defensive play is still one of the bests in the league for a forward.
WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
- Jun 17, 2007
- 25,154
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He had a really bad year and underperformed greatly offensively.
That said, he is talented and consistent and steady and while he's not a standout player he's easily our most complete centreman and, were it not for DD's coddling, he should have been playing with Pacioretty and/or Vanek and not scrubs like Moena and Gionta.
That said, he is talented and consistent and steady and while he's not a standout player he's easily our most complete centreman and, were it not for DD's coddling, he should have been playing with Pacioretty and/or Vanek and not scrubs like Moena and Gionta.
Fazkovsky
Registered User
- Sep 4, 2013
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Stats don't tell everything, watch him play and you will realize he is making up for other's mistakes and is playing with offensive inept players such as Travis Moen. The reason why he was getting 60 + points a season is because he was playing with players such as AK46 and Alexei Kovalev. An upgrade over Travis Moen and Brandon Prust.
A good two way center that scores 20 every year? Yes very underrated if anything.
A good two way center that scores 20 every year? Yes very underrated if anything.
PernellsWhiteAmi
Long Live Chappelle
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
I watched him play against Boston and New-York, he was invisible, and now we even have stats that indicates he isn't good in any aspect of the game.
Do we want to just make the playoffs every year or be a Cup contender every year? If we want to be a contender we have to move-on and either give Plekanec a lot less ice-time during playoffs or just trade him and make room for other potential offensive centers.
WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
- Jun 17, 2007
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Mr Jackpot
Registered User
It's amazing how many times I heard Plek in the same category as Bergeron, I mean Patrice Bergeron is a Selke candidate, a Conn Smythe candidate, a Bill Masterton candidate, Plekanec is just a Molson Cup candidate for best Habs player of the month. Bergeron plays his heart in the playoffs, Plek is invisible.
C'mon Plekanec and Bergeron are not in the same category, they're not in the same universe.
Well that's not Plekanec's problem if our top 2 center is Plekanec and DD.
Plekanec would be a perfect 2nd center if we have a legitimate 1st center but we have more like a 2A and 2B center. Plekanec has as much ice-time than DD because he's on the PP and MOSTLY the PK.
Again, if you only watch the the stats sheet and see Plekanec with 22minutes, 3-5 of these minutes could easily been on the PK so it's not the best time to have some productions.
You know Plekanec is a 6 time 20 goals scorer, that can play an effective 2-ways game? You know Plekanec only score 1 less goal than Pacioretty in the 11-12 season playing with players like Gionta,Bourque and Ryder?
Like I said, he'd be a perfect 2nd line center if we have a legitimate 1st center but we don't so because of his defensive awareness, he's given a much more defensive role than the other center.
I agree that Bergeron is way better than Plekanec, no question... but they are not that far off in term of playoffs production. Considering the depth in the wings the Bruins are having in the past 5 years vs. the Habs, it's not as bad as you seem to think.
Bergeron: 66pts in 95 playoffs games. 0.69pt per game
Plekanec: 42 pts in 69 playoffs games. 0.61pt per game
Also, Plekanec has a 0.64pt per game in the regular season, saying he's completely disappears in the playoffs is also not quite true since there's not a really a big difference.
Ohashi_Jouzu*
Registered User
Then whatever stats you have, you're using them wrong. Also, surprised that you didn't notice Plekanec either scoring or setting up the Habs' first goal of the game in three consecutive games to open up the Boston series (happened at least once more), as well as being one of the more prolific shooters. Didn't he also assist on Galchenyuk's overtime winner in Tokarski's first playoff win vs NYR?
I certainly thought he looked good in certain aspects of the game, lol.
It would be great if Plekanec didn't have to play all those minutes. Your problem though, like many slaves to stats, is thinking about minutes as simple elements in a formula that can be manipulated the same way for anyone and everyone. These guys have roles, and not all minutes are against the same people, in the same situations, or in the same areas of the ice. The role that Plekanec played helped us over-achieve last year, and no one has proven to be stronger internal competition for those minutes to date, so it is what it is.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
Yes what he does in the regular season is very good for the team, he can contribute in every aspect of the game and he's also consistent and have a great work ethic. But he's just not a playoff performer, playoffs type games are not suited for his game.
I respect the athlete but I don't like how he gets so much ice-time when it really counts. We have to make room for another offensive center sooner or later.
DJ Breadman
Registered User
Plekanec is a frustrating player, his skill set is very good(skating,shooting) yet he is only good at a number of things and great at nothing. His faceoff percentage has always bothered me, I find myself yelling at the screen on his faceoffs sometimes. It's almost like in certain situations he isn't even trying on the faceoff. Either way a decision is going to have to be made on this guy soon. If galchy and DD end up being the 1 and 2 by the end of the year do you want a guy making 5mil as your 3rd line center....No is the answer
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
it doesn't matter if he score the first or last goal of the game, he finished 8th on his team for points behind 2 defenceman. 7 players contribute more than him offensively including 2 defenceman yet he is the forward with the most ice-time. And he finished last for +/-, who cares if he sets up goals in some games, if he finished at -7, that means he was on the ice for a lot of goal against.
Plek has absolute immunity among Habs fan, they will defend him no matter what. On top of that they will put him in the same category as Patrice Bergeron. Plek is by far the most overated Habs player.
WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
- Jun 17, 2007
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If Galchenyuk actually develops some reliability this year and Eller steps up and doesn't disappear, they'll render both DD and Pleks expendable. Until then, they're not, especially Pleks.
I think the GM is aware of this too.
I don't think you understand... Plekanecs is Plekanecs... He does not have absolute immunity, he just has his niche. He is niether over rated or under rated. He's not a croissant trying to be a donut. We don't expect plek to be anything but plek.
I have to quote the dodge ram commercial to describe him "He's a twenty year straight get to work on time"
You don't seem to understand that even if he gets icetime, it doesn't mean he has to produced everytime he is on the ice. When he gets 2-3 minutes of PK, you can't expect to produce don't you?
In a tight game, even if his regular wingers in the game are Galchenyuk and lets say Vanek, you might see in the last 5 minutes of the game Plekanec playing with Gionta and Prust or a guy like Moen. You can't expect him to produce much when his duty is to run the clock and be extremely responsible defensively.
If MT decides to match up Plekanec line's against the top opponents line, Plekanec will again play more, with tougher opposition so his icetime goes up but the match-up makes it harder for him to scorer since his role would be containaing the opponent's first.
These are the kinds of situations you don't see if you only watch the "ice-time" on the scoresheet.
Well if your opinion is that Plekanec sucks and overrated. Then why asking us our opinions.
You're basing your opinion on the scoresheets only with irrelevant stats without considering how he was being used, then it's your problem. And when you talk about +/- like it's some kind of factual stat, it just proves that you don't watch the game much.
DD started the playoffs with Pacioretty and Vanek, 2 30 goals scorer, yet ended with less points than Plekanec and only one more than 4th line Weise. You that loves stats, don't you think the problem is more DD who had a much more offensive role than Plekanec?
To put things in perspective, going from .61 to .64 is 2.16 points over 69 games.
If you prefer, that is one point per 30 games.
I would think defense is better in PO. Usually, teams with the best defense seems to go in PO.
May be there is a relationship.
I like the way you present your numbers.
But some posters are like Republicans facing Climate Change. Numbers, Science and reality does not count.
Based on your numbers, saying he disappears in PO is a lie and mongering.
Mr Jackpot
Registered User
Rosso started by saying "stats don't tell always tell the whole story" and then he provide stats that he likes. I promiss, Habs fan will find one way or another to defend Plek, it's really something.
Plek is not a player built for playoff and most fans don't see that. His style of play doesn't work in the playoff, this is the bottom line, you have to get your nose dirty, you have to be bigger and faster than your opponents, you have to be more hungry to win, you have to be more offensively talented than the opposition..
Plek is not a player built for playoff and most fans don't see that. His style of play doesn't work in the playoff, this is the bottom line, you have to get your nose dirty, you have to be bigger and faster than your opponents, you have to be more hungry to win, you have to be more offensively talented than the opposition..
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ECWHSWI
TOUGHEN UP.
- Oct 27, 2006
- 28,604
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they arent his, it's Plekanec stats, they're for real, they do exist, you can pretend they dont as much as you want, but they are real.
I think you are the one that choses your stats. Up to this point, you still dont understand why Plekanec doesnt get as much points despite his ice-time. You can't just look at stats and believe the numbers to first degree. I remember a game that Bouillon played almost just as much as Subban because MT uses him on the PK. Does that mean Bouillon is as good as Subban if we look at the numbers only? Does it mean Bouillon has to produce just as much as Subban because of the comparable icetime? A player that just jumped on the ice while the other team scores that gets a -1. Does it mean he didnt do his job defensively? There are stats that are more accurate than others. Saying DD and Plek should produce equally if they played 20 minutes a game is a flawed stats if DD plays 17min at ES and 3min on the PP while Plek play 16min at ES, 2 min on the PP and 2min on the PK. Do you even see the difference?
You cant even seem to understand Plekanec's game is more defensive oriented first.
Perfect example is the Bergeron/Krejci duo. To me, offensively they are just as good but Krejci gets more points because the coach uses him with the best wingers, in a offensive role while Bergeron who plays just as much, or maybe even more than Krejci doesn't produce as much. Doesnt mean he's not as good, it just means the coach uses Bergeron in a different role.
Again, the problem is not Plekanec, the problem is that we have two 2nd center. So the coach decides one plays a offensive role, the other plays the two way role. If we have a legitimate 1st center like Crosby, Kopitar, Getzlaf etc... Plekanec would be just fine as a 2nd center.
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