Is this defence good enough?

[Krauser]

What was he playing do you know? 1st line, 3rd line wondering what matchups he got.

No idea myself, but from what I’ve read Heinola played on the 2nd pairing for Lukko and got a decent amount of ice time:



It seems he struggled when he first got back to Finland, and then he missed some time with an injury after the world juniors (where he was reportedly pretty good). I don’t see anything written about it, but he must have played better on returning from injury — a 59% Corsi is impressive no matter what the usage or QOC.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

yes for sure it is premature to say we have blown this season. Honestly with 4 months off this is much more like next season already than last season. It’s going to be so odd which is why I want us to win the play in so badly.

This PO may be the last hockey we see for a while. Go as far as possible.

 

[Jet]

This PO may be the last hockey we see for a while. Go as far as possible.

I doubt that. If the NHL can pull this off with minimal/ no infections you can bet the regular season won't be too far away.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I doubt that. If the NHL can pull this off with minimal/ no infections you can bet the regular season won't be too far away.

I disagree.

Finishing this season and awarding the cup with nothing but TV revenue is one thing. Starting next season in a couple of hub cities with no fans and none of that revenue is another thing altogether. For a start, I don't think they can lock players in a bubble for an entire season. So there won't be hub cities. There won't be a bubble. No bubble, no NHL, IMO. Infection control will be impossible.

As we open up, Covid is getting worse, not better. That can be expected to continue until there is a vaccine. The next hockey season may have to wait for a vaccine also.

 

[Jet]

I disagree.

Finishing this season and awarding the cup with nothing but TV revenue is one thing. Starting next season in a couple of hub cities with no fans and none of that revenue is another thing altogether. For a start, I don't think they can lock players in a bubble for an entire season. So there won't be hub cities. There won't be a bubble. No bubble, no NHL, IMO. Infection control will be impossible.

As we open up, Covid is getting worse, not better. That can be expected to continue until there is a vaccine. The next hockey season may have to wait for a vaccine also.

Yes that is totally fair. It's looking as if we will have at least one vaccine (if not multiple) ready for use by December. They might not be ready for mass deployment but I could see an advanced release to people like first responders, medical staff and pro athletes.

I could see the NHL starting training camps in November based on projected release of the vaccine.

As for the money aspect of it - there is no way the NHL will wait for fans to be able to return to the rink to resume play. That is at least a year away if not more. They will find other ways to make money, likely PPV and renegotiated TV contracts. Additionally, players will have to accept they will be making less over the next 12 - 24 months at least to account for lost revenue.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yes that is totally fair. It's looking as if we will have at least one vaccine (if not multiple) ready for use by December. They might not be ready for mass deployment but I could see an advanced release to people like first responders, medical staff and pro athletes.

I could see the NHL starting training camps in November based on projected release of the vaccine.

As for the money aspect of it - there is no way the NHL will wait for fans to be able to return to the rink to resume play. That is at least a year away if not more. They will find other ways to make money, likely PPV and renegotiated TV contracts. Additionally, players will have to accept they will be making less over the next 12 - 24 months at least to account for lost revenue.

I am somewhat hopeful for a vaccine by Dec./Jan. But I think your statement is still pretty optimistic. They are starting to ramp up for production of at least 1, IF it turns out to be successful. That will help a lot, again IF it is successful. Those ifs are still very big. There are about 2 dozen candidates in various stages of trials right now. They may all fail. Six months ago, the experts were saying a vaccine was at least a year away. Now they are still saying it is probably at least a year away.

Many drugs reach the stage the most advanced of these vaccines are at and then fail at the next step. This virus shows signs of being difficult to develop immunity to. We may never get a really good vaccine. We may end up with one that needs to be boosted every 2-3 months.

Yes, there are other possibilities. They depend on cooperative partners. Will the networks agree to renegotiate TV contracts? Will the players accept less money? They just negotiated a very player friendly new CBA that appears to guarantee them at least 80% of 2020 money. Will PPV provide that kind of revenue? I for 1 will not pay $100+ to watch games on TV.

My statement was not that this will be the last hockey we see for a while. It was that it might be. I stand by that. There is still so much that can go wrong.

 

[Hunter368]

Jets sign DeMelo and in a perfect world Dillion if they have the cap space Jets D is perfectly fine.

Josh DeMelo
Dillion Pionk

I love that D core if it happened. But the key is before getting any LHD we need to find a solution at 2C.....either Jack or some external guy. I think this year PMO is giving Jack the wheel at 2C to prove he can do it or not, if he can’t Chevy then goes to find an external solution during the season.

 

[voyageur]

Jets sign DeMelo and in a perfect world Dillion if they have the cap space Jets D is perfectly fine.

Josh DeMelo
Dillion Pionk

I love that D core if it happened. But the key is before getting any LHD we need to find a solution at 2C.....either Jack or some external guy. I think this year PMO is giving Jack the wheel at 2C to prove he can do it or not, if he can’t Chevy then goes to find an external solution during the season.

It's Brendon Dillon, and he's a self professed West Coast guy, and I really wouldn't get my hopes up for free agent defensemen, when our big signigns have been Derek Meech twice, Adam Pardy, Dimitri Kulikov (the biggest), and Nathan Beaulieu, followed by Anthony Bitetto. I think there is an opening in LA to play with Doughty for example. I still like that top 4 with Heinola more. The key to me is to get Samberg contributing positively in his first year. I think Samberg-Poolman could be an effective 3rd pairing, the key is to become efficient on the PK as well. That's why I would consider giving Sbisa a 2 year term, I think he's going to improve anyone's PK. Boo Boo is alot more inconsistent, but he pays the price, which is respectable, in my books.

Will be interesting to see if Roslovic gets any action at centre in the playoffs. I think Shore has proven very solid, as a RH faceoff guy, and PKer. Eakin can play wing, but his line was the hottest going into the bubble. Definitely would be interesting seeing the 2015 line and a Copp-Lowry-Shore line, but the two Frenchies seem to be in the way of that. Next season it would be an interesting experiment, the results of the 2015 line, metric wise, was great. Is he ready for Ehlers-Laine, no one really knows, hasn't been tried.

 

[Jet]

I am somewhat hopeful for a vaccine by Dec./Jan. But I think your statement is still pretty optimistic. They are starting to ramp up for production of at least 1, IF it turns out to be successful. That will help a lot, again IF it is successful. Those ifs are still very big. There are about 2 dozen candidates in various stages of trials right now. They may all fail. Six months ago, the experts were saying a vaccine was at least a year away. Now they are still saying it is probably at least a year away.

Many drugs reach the stage the most advanced of these vaccines are at and then fail at the next step. This virus shows signs of being difficult to develop immunity to. We may never get a really good vaccine. We may end up with one that needs to be boosted every 2-3 months.

Yes, there are other possibilities. They depend on cooperative partners. Will the networks agree to renegotiate TV contracts? Will the players accept less money? They just negotiated a very player friendly new CBA that appears to guarantee them at least 80% of 2020 money. Will PPV provide that kind of revenue? I for 1 will not pay $100+ to watch games on TV.

My statement was not that this will be the last hockey we see for a while. It was that it might be. I stand by that. There is still so much that can go wrong.

I mean, you can boldify as many words as you want - but that doesn't change the fact that I have an opinion that is different than yours.

I believe there will be a vaccine ready for advanced release in December. The public likely will not get it until spring/ summer of 21. I have been following this very closely.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I mean, you can boldify as many words as you want - but that doesn't change the fact that I have an opinion that is different than yours.

I believe there will be a vaccine ready for advanced release in December. The public likely will not get it until spring/ summer of 21. I have been following this very closely.

I doubt you have been following it any closer than I have. You are welcome to your opinion and your belief. It could happen that way. Like I said earlier, I am somewhat hopeful. The vaccine they are preparing to manufacture has had promising results so far. But virtually all of the experts are very strongly cautioning us to not read too much into that. Promising results to this stage happen all the time in drug development - and then they fail - very often. I can't count the number of times I have heard in the media about a miraculous leap forward in cancer treatment only to have it amount to little or nothing. There have been many incremental improvements, but no miracle cure.

We still have no vaccine for the common cold and I'm sure they have been trying. We still need to get another, different flu shot every year because there are so many strains. Many vaccines require periodic boosters. Vaccine development is hard and there is no guarantee of success.

In one respect, I am maybe a little more optimistic than you are. If that vaccine continues to pass all the tests, I think it will be fairly widely available in very short order. I think people considered vulnerable will be able to get it very soon. Yes, the wider public will have to wait a while.

 

[surixon]

I imagine the league will be watching how things go with MLB very closely. We may see a schedule like the AHL where teams travel once a week and play the same team 3 times in 4 days or something to limit travel.

 

[Board Bard]

They might not be ready for mass deployment but I could see an advanced release to people like first responders, medical staff and pro athletes.

One of those things is not like the others. Two of them are VIPs in this world. The other is who gives a f***, not even at the level of importance of the local grocery store clerk. Sure it would be nice to have the distraction of sports while this is going on, but if I had a vote every VIP in the world would get the vaccine before athletes need to stand in line. Take care of the VIPs and at-riskers before allocating doses to the toy department. I don't think there will be expendable doses in time for the next NHL season.

 

[behemolari]

I imagine the league will be watching how things go with MLB very closely. We may see a schedule like the AHL where teams travel once a week and play the same team 3 times in 4 days or something to limit travel.

Mack Live Batters?

 

[Jet]

One of those things is not like the others. Two of them are VIPs in this world. The other is who gives a f***, not even at the level of importance of the local grocery store clerk. Sure it would be nice to have the distraction of sports while this is going on, but if I had a vote every VIP in the world would get the vaccine before athletes need to stand in line. Take care of the VIPs and at-riskers before allocating doses to the toy department. I don't think there will be expendable doses in time for the next NHL season.

I'm not getting into the politics of this, only the reality. Major pro athletes will get doses in line with the first group, you'd be naive to think not.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

One of those things is not like the others. Two of them are VIPs in this world. The other is who gives a f***, not even at the level of importance of the local grocery store clerk. Sure it would be nice to have the distraction of sports while this is going on, but if I had a vote every VIP in the world would get the vaccine before athletes need to stand in line. Take care of the VIPs and at-riskers before allocating doses to the toy department. I don't think there will be expendable doses in time for the next NHL season.

That is certainly the way it should be - but money talks. Pro sports seem to have a lot of influence. So I think the athletes might get it before the grocery clerks. But medical workers, the elderly and those with specific pre-existing conditions will be first in line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I'm not getting into the politics of this, only the reality. Major pro athletes will get doses in line with the first group, you'd be naive to think not.

If pro athletes are in line with the medical workers, some political heads will roll.

 

[voyageur]

How would you feel if the Jets offered Luca Sbisa a 2 year deal? He'd be a defenseman we could expose in the expansion draft, along with Niku, if the Jets have plans for him in the organization. I feel like a lot of what was missing from previous teams was leadership in our defensive corps. We started off the year with a very inexperience d-corps, with Myers, Buff and Trouba all gone, that was alot of leadership. In contrast to Morrissey-Kulikov, Heinola-Pionk, Bitetto-Poolman that started the season. Sbisa's waiver pickup had a calming influence on the whole group, and our PK metrics went up upon his arrival. A two year deal would ensure he signs here, as the guaranteed income, and chance at the Cup are pretty good incentives.

 

[Jet]

If pro athletes are in line with the medical workers, some political heads will roll.

Have you watched US politics? No heads roll.

There can be an argument made that sports are needed in our current social environment. Lack of interaction and activity have contributed to mental health issues and sports could be a real respite from that. I know I'm begging to watch some live hockey to bring some normalcy back to my life.

Obviously, pro athletes are nowhere near as critical to vaccinate as police, health care, front line workers and high risk population. But, as we've seen time and time again - money and politics Trump common sense.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Have you watched US politics? No heads roll.

There can be an argument made that sports are needed in our current social environment. Lack of interaction and activity have contributed to mental health issues and sports could be a real respite from that. I know I'm begging to watch some live hockey to bring some normalcy back to my life.

Obviously, pro athletes are nowhere near as critical to vaccinate as police, health care, front line workers and high risk population. But, as we've seen time and time again - money and politics Trump common sense.

I agree with your last paragraph. After the high risk population, pro athletes will have some priority. But those segments you list add up to a very large number of people coming before them. In Canada 33.06% of the population is 55 and over. Draw the line at 65 and it is still 19%. Even under that age there are a very large number of people with health conditions that make them vulnerable. I'm not going to look up all of the stats, just consider a partial list of the conditions: heart disease, COPD, asthma, other lung diseases, type I diabetes, type II diabetes, epilepsy, recovered or recovering cancer patients, immune diseases, just to name the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. There are a lot of people under 65 with those conditions.

 

[Jet]

I agree with your last paragraph. After the high risk population, pro athletes will have some priority. But those segments you list add up to a very large number of people coming before them. In Canada 33.06% of the population is 55 and over. Draw the line at 65 and it is still 19%. Even under that age there are a very large number of people with health conditions that make them vulnerable. I'm not going to look up all of the stats, just consider a partial list of the conditions: heart disease, COPD, asthma, other lung diseases, type I diabetes, type II diabetes, epilepsy, recovered or recovering cancer patients, immune diseases, just to name the ones that I can think of off the top of my head. There are a lot of people under 65 with those conditions.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Heinola put up a 59.0% Corsi in Liiga this year, the best mark on his team and one of the best in the league — 15th highest of all skaters, and 5th of all D (who played more than 10 games)

Player stats | Advanced | Regular season 2019-2020 | Stats | Liiga

So true you never know for sure how an 18-year old given time in the "show" will truly project. Even more so with not the most known, exposed European prospects. I have said it before that in the limited NA hockey time, professional level at that, Heinola reminds very much of a Toby Enstrom style player in Toby's prime. He never looks out of place, seems to know his defensive positioning and duties instinctively and plays even keel to his abilities and size without looking over strained or outdone by the competition. I think we have a good one in this kid!! I can see him producing close to O.E.L. ( Oliver Ekman-Larsson of Ariz) like numbers down the road. Given his time to evolve, find his way in North America lifestyle, and the rigors of NHL level toll. No need to rush him, but also no reason to shelter him if he comes in ready and shows his steady self again, why not offer best opportunity to start; that is on the Jets in a 2nd pairing role if he outshines Samburg and Stanley and anyone else brought in, com the start of 20/21 season.

 

[GumbyCan2]

Jets sign DeMelo and in a perfect world Dillion if they have the cap space Jets D is perfectly fine.

Josh DeMelo
Dillion Pionk

I love that D core if it happened. But the key is before getting any LHD we need to find a solution at 2C.....either Jack or some external guy. I think this year PMO is giving Jack the wheel at 2C to prove he can do it or not, if he can’t Chevy then goes to find an external solution during the season.

Maybe add Heinola left-side (or Samburg if more ready) and trade for/ sign Brandon Montour out of Buffalo and that would be a pretty solid, possibly awesome D-core to go with our awesome offense, and all-world Goalie. Lookout NHL!

 

[kcin94]

How would you feel if the Jets offered Luca Sbisa a 2 year deal? He'd be a defenseman we could expose in the expansion draft, along with Niku, if the Jets have plans for him in the organization. I feel like a lot of what was missing from previous teams was leadership in our defensive corps. We started off the year with a very inexperience d-corps, with Myers, Buff and Trouba all gone, that was alot of leadership. In contrast to Morrissey-Kulikov, Heinola-Pionk, Bitetto-Poolman that started the season. Sbisa's waiver pickup had a calming influence on the whole group, and our PK metrics went up upon his arrival. A two year deal would ensure he signs here, as the guaranteed income, and chance at the Cup are pretty good incentives.

If he's signed as a depth D at a cheap contract, then I'm fine with it. If he's signed to be in our top 6, then I am less fine with it.