Is this defence good enough?

VictoriaJetsFan

Registered User
Mar 24, 2013
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Hello Jets fans.

So I'm stressed out here regarding the Trouba issue. I am torn between a strong return on a trade and going for it this upcoming year in an effort to win the Cup, with Trouba on the roster.

Geting a stud d back in trade is clearly going to be very hard. Right handed defenceman that are 24 year old top pairing guys are tough to get, very very tough to get.

Then I look at Pittsburgh and see how the pens won two cups with a fairly average or at least unspectacular defence.

So I am musing if it would be wise to go that route. If Trouba was dealt for a centre it could make or forwards beyond great, certainly Cup worthy no doubt.

So If Trouba was dealt for a centre our d would look like this:

Morrissey Buff
Kulikov Myers
Chariot Poolman
Niku

Not a terrible group. Pretty decent overall. I would worry though, an injury would reduce the group's quality significantly. Niku remains a wild card. If the defence does not meet a sort of minimum threshold you just don't win in the playoffs.

This Trouba contract impasse really is bothering me more than I thought it would.
 
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StatisticsAddict99

Registered User
Feb 24, 2017
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Before we consider trading for a 2C why not try Roslovic?


upload_2018-7-26_0-42-38.png

upload_2018-7-26_0-44-48.png

upload_2018-7-26_0-43-10.png
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Hello Jets fans.

So I'm stressed out here regarding the Trouba issue. I am torn between a strong return on a trade and going for it this upcoming year in an effort to win the Cup, with Trouba on the roster.

Geting a stud d back in trade is clearly going to be very hard. Right handed defenceman that are 24 year old top pairing guys are tough to get, very very tough to get.

Then I look at Pittsburgh and see how the pens won two cups with a fairly average or at least unspectacular defence.

So I am musing if it would be wise to go that route. If Trouba was dealt for a centre it could make or forwards beyond great, certainly Cup worthy no doubt.

So If Trouba was dealt for a centre our d would look like this:

Morrissey Buff
Kulikov Myers
Chariot Poolman
Niku

Not a terrible group. Pretty decent overall. I would worry though, an injury would reduce the group's quality significantly. Niku remains a wild card. If the defence does not meet a sort of minimum threshold you just don't win in the playoffs.

This Trouba contract impasse really is bothering me more than I thought it would.

You left out Morrow.

Still, the depth is not great - but I think that D is better than what the Pens won with. We would not be as strong as the Pens were at C but we are better at W.

We could win with that. It depends more on goaltending. The Pens got great goaltending in their cup years.
 
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PhilJets

Winnipeg is Good
Jun 24, 2012
10,297
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Why are we stress out?
Trouba is here for 2 years.
He'll probably have his strongers year this coming year.

Jets D are stack.


See how good the Jets are again this year.
If they can take the cup or not.

If they don't at least make the conference finals. Then its time to turn the team to the young core leading the way. Maybe replace some of the vets and "Trouba" in the off season.
Retool.
 
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DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
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Hello Jets fans.

So I'm stressed out here regarding the Trouba issue. I am torn between a strong return on a trade and going for it this upcoming year in an effort to win the Cup, with Trouba on the roster.

Geting a stud d back in trade is clearly going to be very hard. Right handed defenceman that are 24 year old top pairing guys are tough to get, very very tough to get.

Then I look at Pittsburgh and see how the pens won two cups with a fairly average or at least unspectacular defence.

So I am musing if it would be wise to go that route. If Trouba was dealt for a centre it could make or forwards beyond great, certainly Cup worthy no doubt.

So If Trouba was dealt for a centre our d would look like this:

Morrissey Buff
Kulikov Myers
Chariot Poolman
Niku

Not a terrible group. Pretty decent overall. I would worry though, an injury would reduce the group's quality significantly. Niku remains a wild card. If the defence does not meet a sort of minimum threshold you just don't win in the playoffs.

This Trouba contract impasse really is bothering me more than I thought it would.

You summed the whole thing up when you brought up Pittsburgh's defense. And look at both Washington and Las Vegas' bluelines last year.

The NHL has evolved to the point where you can do quite well with above-average goaltending, one or two above average defensemen and a bunch of average defensemen. You don't need Doughty or Hedman. You don't need to have the fabled "Big Three" of the Habs from the 70's. In today's NHL, average defensemen are actually pretty good. As long as you don't have defensive liabilities, you have a chance.

As far as the Jets are concerned, they have one very good (soon to be among the league leaders) all-round defenseman in Morrissey (I think his offensive upside will reveal itself very soon). Then they have the undefinable Byfuglien. Then they have the absurdly overly criticized Tyler Myers (who still astounds me with his skating ability at his size). After that, you have Kulikov, Morrow, Chairot and Poolman, who all fall under what I call the "NHL Average". They are very capable, if not spectacular, NHL defensemen who generally will not hurt you. Add the fact that we have Hellebucyk locked up, and I see no reason to be overly concerned about losing Trouba. In fact, consider it an opportunity to get some very good assets for him.
 

puck stoppa

Registered User
Jul 5, 2011
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Who are the D's that will be UFA's next summer? If we trade Trouba next summer I'm interested to see who we can sign as a second pairing Dman on either side. Jmo, Buff, Niku and Poolman can be four of the six. Kulikov would be the 5th if we can still afford him for his last year. So who can we sign for that second pair that won't cost a fortune? Anybody see a list of UFA's anywhere?
 

mcpw

WPG
Jan 13, 2015
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There's nothing more pointless (and potentially dangerous) than comparing any defense to the 2017 Penguins'.

That team had Crosby, Malkin, and unreal goaltending, and they still needed seven games to defeat the Senators, a mediocre team that made the ECF on the back of a Conn Smythe level performance by Karlsson, lost Brassard to injury during that series, and collapsed in the next season, and it defeated a Predators lineup with Colton Sissons and Mike Fisher playing 1C/2C in six games while Rinne put up performances like saving 7 of the 11 shots he faced during game 1.

If your takeaway from the 2017 playoffs is that you can win with any defense, think again.

In the parallel universe where Ryan Johansen doesn't get hurt, good chance everybody's talking about how the Predators' 2017 cup win proves that you win on the back of a great defensive core, and I'm sure some would be wondering which one of Ehlers or Connor should we trade to add even more good defensemen because that's how you win.

edit: brought this up before, but Pittsburgh didn't win two cups with a mediocre defense. 2016 Letang was a top4 defenseman in the league. We don't have any defenseman close to 2016 Letang.
 

DannyGallivan

Your world frightens and confuses me
Aug 25, 2017
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There's nothing more pointless (and potentially dangerous) than comparing any defense to the 2017 Penguins'.

That team had Crosby, Malkin, and unreal goaltending, and they still needed seven games to defeat the Senators, a mediocre team that made the ECF on the back of a Conn Smythe level performance by Karlsson, lost Brassard to injury during that series, and collapsed in the next season, and it defeated a Predators lineup with Colton Sissons and Mike Fisher playing 1C/2C in six games while Rinne put up performances like saving 7 of the 11 shots he faced during game 1.

If your takeaway from the 2017 playoffs is that you can win with any defense, think again.

In the parallel universe where Ryan Johansen doesn't get hurt, good chance everybody's talking about how the Predators' 2017 cup win proves that you win on the back of a great defensive core, and I'm sure some would be wondering which one of Ehlers or Connor should we trade to add even more good defensemen because that's how you win.

edit: brought this up before, but Pittsburgh didn't win two cups with a mediocre defense. 2016 Letang was a top4 defenseman in the league. We don't have any defenseman close to 2016 Letang.

How would you compare Washington and Las Vegas's talent on the blueline compared to Winnipeg?
 
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Mortimer Snerd

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Who are the D's that will be UFA's next summer? If we trade Trouba next summer I'm interested to see who we can sign as a second pairing Dman on either side. Jmo, Buff, Niku and Poolman can be four of the six. Kulikov would be the 5th if we can still afford him for his last year. So who can we sign for that second pair that won't cost a fortune? Anybody see a list of UFA's anywhere?

If we can't still afford Kulikov for his last year, what do you propose we do about it?
 

mcpw

WPG
Jan 13, 2015
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How would you compare Washington and Las Vegas's talent on the blueline compared to Winnipeg?

Washington is similar to Winnipeg (with Trouba) in that they have a very good top3 they rely on a lot in Niskanen/Orlov/Carlson. I have no strong opinion on who is better between that trio and Byfuglien/Trouba/Morrissey. They found Kempny at the deadline to complement their top4 and they basically played two pairings during the playoffs (third pairing saw ~10 minutes per game). The Jets of last year were deeper and could play their bottom pairing more. The hypothetical Jets blueline without Trouba lacks the Carlson level impact player on the second pairing (Myers is not that). That would make Washington's defense easily better in my opinion.

Vegas is just too hard to analyze for me. Schmidt-McNabb rode an absurd PDO wave, while Miller went from 60% CF in a sheltered role with Boston to 55% in a non-sheltered role. Theodore looks solid across the board. All of them scored well. Engelland had a career year at 35. They always roll three pairings. Lowest 5v5 TOI/GP in the playoffs was Luca Sbisa with 14:31. That's really high.
 

Mortimer Snerd

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Well you might see another trade of mid round pick and a Dano for example for someone like Arizona to take him.

Paying people to take on contracts again? Good gawd, I hope not.

That would be both of last summer's high profile signings dumped of at a loss.
 
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DRW204

Registered User
Dec 26, 2010
22,117
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C depth, legit top 4 D, goaltending and luck is what is needed to go deep in the playoffs

I think the Jets needed a bit of luck to make the SCF this past year.

The saves that MAF was making against the Jets were goals against the caps.... the posts that the Jets hit were goals vs the Caps.
 

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
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Well you might see another trade of mid round pick and a Dano for example for someone like Arizona to take him.
if the jets need the cap space trading Kulikov should be no problem. teams need dmen all the time more then they need 4 million dollar back up goallies. huge difference.
 

Trinity

Registered User
Dec 12, 2017
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if the jets need the cap space trading Kulikov should be no problem. teams need dmen all the time more then they need 4 million dollar back up goallies. huge difference.
You're assuming Kulivov returns to form. For all we know he never plays another NHL game.
 

nobody imp0rtant

Registered pessimist
May 23, 2018
10,812
17,977
Hello Jets fans.

So I'm stressed out here regarding the Trouba issue. I am torn between a strong return on a trade and going for it this upcoming year in an effort to win the Cup, with Trouba on the roster.

Geting a stud d back in trade is clearly going to be very hard. Right handed defenceman that are 24 year old top pairing guys are tough to get, very very tough to get.

Then I look at Pittsburgh and see how the pens won two cups with a fairly average or at least unspectacular defence.

So I am musing if it would be wise to go that route. If Trouba was dealt for a centre it could make or forwards beyond great, certainly Cup worthy no doubt.

So If Trouba was dealt for a centre our d would look like this:

Morrissey Buff
Kulikov Myers
Chariot Poolman
Niku

Not a terrible group. Pretty decent overall. I would worry though, an injury would reduce the group's quality significantly. Niku remains a wild card. If the defence does not meet a sort of minimum threshold you just don't win in the playoffs.

This Trouba contract impasse really is bothering me more than I thought it would.

First, step away from the edge. Trouba is not going to be traded this year. As much as some of us want to see his entitled ass shipped off to this mythical horrible destination that is somehow worse than Winnipeg, it's not going to happen. It's clear the organization sees another Cup run this year, and they are going to keep the team intact as much as possible.

As to whether this team's D is good enough? Even with Trouba, my answer is no. Morrissey is our star, why isn't he locked up yet, Chevy? Without him, every day would be like Sunday. After him, you start talking about least damaging.

Buff is like a box of chocolates. Will you get a nice praline, or crunchy frog? Total game changer in both the good and bad sense of the phrase. Overpowering beast, aimless wanderer, or reckless risk taker... they're all in there and which one shows up on any given night can lead us to delight or despair.

Trouba is one of those people that can accurately be described as stupid. Worse, he's stupid with a mean streak. That's a bad combination. On that play he was concussed, you could see he was going head hunting again, but got the worst of it. I see injuries and suspensions in his future.

Myers is just a clumsy klutz in the D zone and we have his heir apparent waiting in the wings. Stanley. Oh joy.

Kulikov is meh and grossly overpaid. And who knows if his back will hold up. We must have been desperate for a LD when we offered that contract. And we still are.

Chiarot and Morrow. Well, at least they work cheap. Since we're spending too much elsewhere, we can't really afford better.

Niku needs more Moose time. All offense, no defense right now.

Poolman is the big unknown for this season. Can he play well enough to earn regular playing time on the Jets, or will he and Dano develop a press box bromance?

Sorry, I really don't see a serious Cup threat with this D corp. There's only so much Laine can do to propel this team to greatness. ;)

Just my opinions. There will be no charts or graphs presented as supporting evidence.
 

ffh

Registered User
Jul 16, 2016
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You're assuming Kulivov returns to form. For all we know he never plays another NHL game.
if his back is fine then returning to form wont be a problem nor will trading him cause we may need cap space. we wont have to trade another asset for someone to take him like someone just suggested they might have to do. if he is injured he is injured no one is taking him no matter what we add. we can put him on ltir.
 

10Ducky10

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I'd hold off on Kuli and see where his back is at. Kuli and Myers as a 3rd were very good.
I'd like to see Niku make the team but then what do we do with Poolman. The more I think of it, the more I think Niku might start with the Moose.
 

Weezeric

Registered User
Jan 27, 2015
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First, step away from the edge. Trouba is not going to be traded this year. As much as some of us want to see his entitled ass shipped off to this mythical horrible destination that is somehow worse than Winnipeg, it's not going to happen. It's clear the organization sees another Cup run this year, and they are going to keep the team intact as much as possible.

As to whether this team's D is good enough? Even with Trouba, my answer is no. Morrissey is our star, why isn't he locked up yet, Chevy? Without him, every day would be like Sunday. After him, you start talking about least damaging.

Buff is like a box of chocolates. Will you get a nice praline, or crunchy frog? Total game changer in both the good and bad sense of the phrase. Overpowering beast, aimless wanderer, or reckless risk taker... they're all in there and which one shows up on any given night can lead us to delight or despair.

Trouba is one of those people that can accurately be described as stupid. Worse, he's stupid with a mean streak. That's a bad combination. On that play he was concussed, you could see he was going head hunting again, but got the worst of it. I see injuries and suspensions in his future.

Myers is just a clumsy klutz in the D zone and we have his heir apparent waiting in the wings. Stanley. Oh joy.

Kulikov is meh and grossly overpaid. And who knows if his back will hold up. We must have been desperate for a LD when we offered that contract. And we still are.

Chiarot and Morrow. Well, at least they work cheap. Since we're spending too much elsewhere, we can't really afford better.

Niku needs more Moose time. All offense, no defense right now.

Poolman is the big unknown for this season. Can he play well enough to earn regular playing time on the Jets, or will he and Dano develop a press box bromance?

Sorry, I really don't see a serious Cup threat with this D corp. There's only so much Laine can do to propel this team to greatness. ;)

Just my opinions. There will be no charts or graphs presented as supporting evidence.

Hah interesting take. If the jets don’t have a good enough defence to win a cup then almost no teams do. Jets are easily a top 5 D core with trouba..
 

Trinity

Registered User
Dec 12, 2017
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if his back is fine then returning to form wont be a problem nor will trading him cause we may need cap space. we wont have to trade another asset for someone to take him like someone just suggested they might have to do. if he is injured he is injured no one is taking him no matter what we add. we can put him on ltir.
That's a big if, and is precisely my point. And no we cannot put him on LTIR as has been explained earlier on this forum.
 

lomiller1

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
6,409
2,966
There's nothing more pointless (and potentially dangerous) than comparing any defense to the 2017 Penguins'.

That team had Crosby, Malkin, and unreal goaltending, and they still needed seven games to defeat the Senators, a mediocre team that made the ECF on the back of a Conn Smythe level performance by Karlsson, lost Brassard to injury during that series, and collapsed in the next season, and it defeated a Predators lineup with Colton Sissons and Mike Fisher playing 1C/2C in six games while Rinne put up performances like saving 7 of the 11 shots he faced during game 1.

If your takeaway from the 2017 playoffs is that you can win with any defense, think again.

Also, in round 1 they faced CBJ, who had depended on Bobrovsky, who had been far and away the best goaltender in the regular season then completely crapped the bed in 4 playoff games. In Round 2 they squeaked past Washington which seems like a god win until you realize Holtby was in the worst stretch of hockey in his career and was giving Washing sub 0.900 sv % play.
 

Tom ServoMST3K

In search of a Steinbach Hero
Nov 2, 2010
27,751
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What's your excuse?
lol Jets defense is pretty good, and great with Trouba.

The right side under contract for next year is:

Trouba
Buff
Myers

That's probably the best RHD core in the league.

Add in Morrissey who I think is better than Trouba, and Buff's ability to make below average LHD's look great, a hot prospect like Niku, and we're easily above average.

Next year our D will set up like:

Morrissey-Trouba
Niku-Buff
Kulikov-Myers

Poolman

That's probably the second best d-core in the league, at least top 5. Long term we might run into problems, but even that won't be terrible.

Morrissey-XXX
Niku-Buff
Stanley-Poolman

Considering we'll probably get a solid D-Man back for Trouba, I'm not worried at all.
 
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