Is Matt Murray Broken?

[Gurglesons]

See, that easy to say for 2017 for Murray. He should be lights out. He played 11 games against inferior teams. While I agree about the steady presence in 2016 he also was insulated heavily by a team that took the league by storm and was set in place before his arrival.

Oh, and the "above average goalie" was not the term used back then.

This is where Murray was overrated and being pushed as the next top 5. In reality he was seeing far less shots and at times not even hitting the 20's mark. Once seeing only 17 and a couple times at 19. They were a shot blocking, shot suppressing machine with the occasional breakdown.

Only now, when Murray is seeing the likes other goalies have seen and been put through is he seen in that light.

I curbed my stance back then, and knew not to be "too High" beyond the moment, because that's all it was. It might have been extended had JR tried to keep the team together a little longer with only the obvious out in Kunitz and Fleury, but he kept going and going and going. Now you see everything playing out in it's true form. The team is no longer that team. They can try and mimic it, but it's still not depth at "all" positions.

The Penguins twice went through two big injuries to Malkin in 2016 Reg. and Letang in 2017 reg./playoffs and had depth to push through. 2017 was more challenging morso in the first 2 series than in the last less Letang.

Inferior teams that somehow made it further than the Capitals ever could and Columbus ever has.

The stats speak to themselves. Murray is statistically better than Fleury was here in both the regular season and playoffs in a much higher scoring era.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

It honestly doesn't even matter if Murray was or is better than Fleury. The main thing to worry about now is getting Murray back on track. I do think he can bounce back, but maybe JR needs to consider a new goalie coach. Maybe Murray needs to see a sports psychologist, if he doesn't already. Maybe this is just a month-long slump and it's magnified by the fact that we have 20 skaters injured right now and there's no one to outscore Murray's poor play.

 

[ChaosAgent]

It honestly doesn't even matter if Murray was or is better than Fleury. The main thing to worry about now is getting Murray back on track. I do think he can bounce back, but maybe JR needs to consider a new goalie coach. Maybe Murray needs to see a sports psychologist, if he doesn't already. Maybe this is just a month-long slump and it's magnified by the fact that we have 20 skaters injured right now and there's no one to outscore Murray's poor play.

Having an opinion of Matt Murray independent of Marc-Andre Fleury? Unspeakable heresy!

No but for real I agree with the goalie coach and sports psychologist thing.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Having an opinion of Matt Murray independent of Marc-Andre Fleury? Unspeakable heresy!

No but for real I agree with the goalie coach and sports psychologist thing.

I mean, Murray rules and Fleury drools, but that's beside the point now.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Inferior teams that somehow made it further than the Capitals ever could and Columbus ever has.

The stats speak to themselves. Murray is statistically better than Fleury was here in both the regular season and playoffs in a much higher scoring era.

So long as the team around him is playing well above average and he keeps to smaller sample sizes. He'll be a super star...

 

[Empoleon8771]

Anyone who says the Penguins should have kept Fleury over Murray automatically loses their voice in the discussion on Murray's performance, because it blatantly shows how clear of a bias you have. There is zero logical reason the Penguins should have kept Fleury, and bringing it up 2.5 years after they got rid of him is just trying to stir up trouble.

There's a reason that playoff collapses follow Fleury around, you know. How many 3-1 series leads have teams with Fleury as the starter blown? Off the top of my head, I can recall 4 (San Jose 2019, Capitals 2017, Rangers 2014 and Lightning 2011).

 

[Shrimper]

Anyone who says the Penguins should have kept Fleury over Murray automatically loses their voice in the discussion on Murray's performance, because it blatantly shows how clear of a bias you have. There is zero logical reason the Penguins should have kept Fleury, and bringing it up 2.5 years after they got rid of him is just trying to stir up trouble.

There's a reason that playoff collapses follow Fleury around, you know. How many 3-1 series leads have teams with Fleury as the starter blown? Off the top of my head, I can recall 4 (San Jose 2019, Capitals 2017, Rangers 2014 and Lightning 2011).

Not to mention that had we kept Fleury we likely don't win the second Cup.

He would have crumbled in Nashville.

 

[Louis Hensler]

Dumb argument. Fleury is the best goalie in Pens history. Murray outplayed him in two Cup runs. Outside those two runs, Murray has failed to put together a consistent season plus playoffs. Right now, Murray is getting outplayed by Jarry, and DeSmith just won AHL goalie of the month. If that continues, combined with Murray's free agent status, Murray is vulnerable to be moved.

 

[Louis Hensler]

Not to mention that had we kept Fleury we likely don't win the second Cup.

He would have crumbled in Nashville.

Wasn't Fleury let go after Murray's second Cup run?

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Wasn't Fleury let go after Murray's second Cup run?

I think Shrimper means kept Fleury as a starter during the Ottawa series instead of going back to Murray.

 

[Louis Hensler]

I think Shrimper means kept Fleury as a starter during the Ottawa series instead of going back to Murray.

Oh, well, yeah, that was dictated by their play at the time.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

2017 Caps series says hi. Good thing they had both. The great 2009 Wings say hi. He was Conn Smythe worthy in 2008.

MAF has been a flake since the ‘09 run... he would have recovered by now you know, in a decade and all.

He was pulled in the 2017 playoffs because he started to spaz out again. Just like he did with Vegas in the finals.

He has been a flake that can’t hold it together for an entire playoff run for a decade now.

That’s who he is. And has been for quite some time.

 

[Pancakes]

Dumb argument. Fleury is the best goalie in Pens history. Murray outplayed him in two Cup runs. Outside those two runs, Murray has failed to put together a consistent season plus playoffs. Right now, Murray is getting outplayed by Jarry, and DeSmith just won AHL goalie of the month. If that continues, combined with Murray's free agent status, Murray is vulnerable to be moved.

He played 49 games with a 923 in 2016-17. He also played 50 games with a 919 last year. Those are pretty solid regular season numbers. So I can't say I agree that he has never had a consistent season plus playoffs especially since in 2016-17 he had the good regular season followed by another Cup win.

Of course he also had a year where he posted a 907 in 49 games and then he has this year where he is sitting at an unsightly 897.

If I'm not mistaken though he started last year out poorly too and got hot in the latter half of the season which brought his numbers up to respectable. Maybe he is following that pattern this year? That would have to be the hope because if he keeps playing like this our playoff chances are in jeopardy.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

He played 49 games with a 923 in 2016-17. He also played 50 games with a 919 last year. Those are pretty solid regular season numbers. So I can't say I agree that he has never had a consistent season plus playoffs especially since in 2016-17 he had the good regular season followed by another Cup win.

Of course he also had a year where he posted a 907 in 49 games and then he has this year where he is sitting at an unsightly 897.

If I'm not mistaken though he started last year out poorly too and got hot in the latter half of the season which brought his numbers up to respectable. Maybe he is following that pattern this year? That would have to be the hope because if he keeps playing like this our playoff chances are in jeopardy.

I posted Murray's monthly splits from this season a few pages back. His save percentage & GAA in October was 2.20/.923, which is great and essentially a continuation of last season's work. His November stats are obviously much worse and are definitely dragging his numbers down, but there's reason to be optimistic, in my opinion, that he can bounce back strong. It's just unfortunate that his shitty play is coming at the same time as all of our good forwards and defensemen being out with injury.

 

[Hobodrifter]

MAF has been a flake since the ‘09 run... he would have recovered by now you know, in a decade and all.

He was pulled in the 2017 playoffs because he started to spaz out again. Just like he did with Vegas in the finals.

He has been a flake that can’t hold it together for an entire playoff run for a decade now.

That’s who he is. And has been for quite some time.

That's inaccurate in regards to the 2017 playoffs. Fleury stood on his head prior to the Ottawa series. Ottawa series he lost a game and Sullivan went back to his starter, Murray, who was healthy by this point. I don't think it had anything to do with bad play on Fleury's part. Keeping Murray over Fleury was the right move. But that doesn't necessitate some of the hyperbole over Fleury that's taking place around here. Especially when we are talking about Murray having a major issue with consistency, just as Fleury did.

 

[vikingGoalie]

Not to mention that had we kept Fleury we likely don't win the second Cup.

He would have crumbled in Nashville.

do you mean that the fact that we kept Fleury for the 2017 run is why we won that cup? Fleury literally stole those series for us. We were caved in our end, out shot, outchanced, out everything. But our goalie was a ton better then the other goalie so we won.

But to the thrust of this thread. I have forever been saying that I'm not sold on Buckley as goalie coach. I felt that Murray's fundamentals have gotten worse every season since Bales left. I know that Buckley is "murray's guy" and all that. But the head goalie coach is still gonna have some say on things.

The biggest worry with Murray is that he is not processing the game at the same speed he used to. That can simply be a focus issue for a goal tender, but at his level that should be sorted out by now. Murray is not that athletic, so when he is not processing the game fast enough he will look scrambly, deep or worst case he will be down in a butterfly early and give up an easy goal. We've seen all of those out of him this year.

Right now, we should just wait until the off season before we offer anything to him. The ballsy move would be to see if Shero would bite on a package with Murray in it to get Hall. Murray, Chucky and prospect and/or 1st for a signed T. Hall? If we ship out bujstadt and schultz we have the space to do it. (thank you marino)

Then ride out the Jarry/DeSmith train and if the Hawks are still in a tailspin kick the tires on one of Lehner (preferred) or Crawford. Both of them are better the Murray right now and will be cheaper as well.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

do you mean that the fact that we kept Fleury for the 2017 run is why we won that cup? Fleury literally stole those series for us. We were caved in our end, out shot, outchanced, out everything. But our goalie was a ton better then the other goalie so we won.

But to the thrust of this thread. I have forever been saying that I'm not sold on Buckley as goalie coach. I felt that Murray's fundamentals have gotten worse every season since Bales left. I know that Buckley is "murray's guy" and all that. But the head goalie coach is still gonna have some say on things.

The biggest worry with Murray is that he is not processing the game at the same speed he used to. That can simply be a focus issue for a goal tender, but at his level that should be sorted out by now. Murray is not that athletic, so when he is not processing the game fast enough he will look scrambly, deep or worst case he will be down in a butterfly early and give up an easy goal. We've seen all of those out of him this year.

Right now, we should just wait until the off season before we offer anything to him. The ballsy move would be to see if Shero would bite on a package with Murray in it to get Hall. Murray, Chucky and prospect and/or 1st for a signed T. Hall? If we ship out bujstadt and schultz we have the space to do it. (thank you marino)

Then ride out the Jarry/DeSmith train and if the Hawks are still in a tailspin kick the tires on one of Lehner (preferred) or Crawford. Both of them are better the Murray right now and will be cheaper as well.

Agree with most of what you said, but I think Crawford is done-zo with his vertigo stuff. Too bad bc he's a fine goalie.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

I posted Murray's monthly splits from this season a few pages back. His save percentage & GAA in October was 2.20/.923, which is great and essentially a continuation of last season's work. His November stats are obviously much worse and are definitely dragging his numbers down, but there's reason to be optimistic, in my opinion, that he can bounce back strong. It's just unfortunate that his ****ty play is coming at the same time as all of our good forwards and defensemen being out with injury.

Here's the thing though: franchise goalies produce when the environment isn't exactly the best. You need your goalie to bail you out when the rest of the team is injured or playing poorly. MM's equity that he's built is quickly dwindling with his 2019 performance

I said before the season starts that the Pens would be wise to not pay him big dollars. That was merely my wish because deep down I knew JR would sign him unless he got a significant injury OR he bombed.

I never thought the latter would happen. I'm not going to say he's "broken", but he's certainly on the watch list.

 

[heysmilinstrange]

Here's the thing though: franchise goalies produce when the environment isn't exactly the best. You need your goalie to bail you out when the rest of the team is injured or playing poorly. MM's equity that he's built is quickly dwindling with his 2019 performance

I said before the season starts that the Pens would be wise to not pay him big dollars. That was merely my wish because deep down I knew JR would sign him unless he got a significant injury OR he bombed.

I never thought the latter would happen. I'm not going to say he's "broken", but he's certainly on the watch list.

All I'm saying is that people are probably overreacting to and overreading a slump. Murray's performance from the second half of last year and the first month of this season suggest he's going to be fine in the long run. I don't think expecting your "franchise goalie" to constantly be good even when the rest of the team is struggling is a reasonable expectation. He can do that sometimes, as we saw last season. There are maybe one or two goalies in the league who could do what you're expecting.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Honestly to a segment of the fanbase... Murray is never going to be good enough. That isn't to say he hasn't been poor so far this season... he has. But there it is.

 

[Gurglesons]

Here's the thing though: franchise goalies produce when the environment isn't exactly the best. You need your goalie to bail you out when the rest of the team is injured or playing poorly. MM's equity that he's built is quickly dwindling with his 2019 performance

I said before the season starts that the Pens would be wise to not pay him big dollars. That was merely my wish because deep down I knew JR would sign him unless he got a significant injury OR he bombed.

I never thought the latter would happen. I'm not going to say he's "broken", but he's certainly on the watch list.

Totally agree. Murray and Fleury. Neither have been “franchise goalies” and honestly those that have, have had short shelf lives like Crawford or Quick. Lundqvist, Rask, and Holtby are the only goalies I’d argue are worth their contracts and Holtby likely won’t be.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Honestly to a segment of the fanbase... Murray is never going to be good enough. That isn't to say he hasn't been poor so far this season... he has. But there it is.

It's not that at all.

I want Murray to succeed. He is their best chance at gaining another cup because he does have that experience the other 2 don't. We simply can't get rid of him, but he really needs to be at top shape if this teams going to be going for it. The team needs him to steal a game or a few to help that cause.

At this point he simply isn't doing it.

Plus, wasn't Buckley his goalie coach before he got up to the big Pens? I'm sure he was. That's scratched off the list as to reasons he's off.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

That's not really what I'm driving at.

There will always be people, much like with Geno, that are sharpening their knives and waiting when it comes to Murray. When you get right down to it and look at the actual numbers Murray has never been "terrible" over the course of a season. Worst you can say is "passable/good." This one is still incomplete and the roster is basically one giant recovery ward. But yet here we are in a thread proclaiming him broken. It's predictable and stupid.

 

[ncm7772]

Murray was arguably lights out in 2017. In 2016 he was exactly what we had been asking for since 2009. An above average, steady presence in net.

Amen. Regardless of what happens in the future, he’ll always be the “anti-Fleury” in my heart after those 2 Cups.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Murray struggles the past half dozen games and suddenly some folks are re-writing history about his contributions to those back to back Cups. Why am I not surprised?