Is Matt Murray Broken?

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People shit all over the idea of Fleury and goaltending coaching until one of any ability was actually hired and nearly instantly helped Fleury start turning the corner on many of his bad habits. So... worth remembering.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Nah, Murray was as big a part of those cup runs as anyone.

I’m 100% certain that if they had MAF instead of Murray, they never win either of those cups.

MAF will always flake out at the worst times. Most recently did it to Vegas in the cup a couple seasons ago. He turned into complete trash in the finals and that’s exactly what would have happened with the Pens.

2017 Caps series says hi. Good thing they had both. The great 2009 Wings say hi. He was Conn Smythe worthy in 2008.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Murray's splits are pretty interesting this season--in October he had a .923 save percentage with a 2.20 GAA, which is great, and in November he's at an awful 3.53/.867. But he started the same number of games in both months, so I'm encouraged by his October numbers, which seem like a continuation of his excellent play from last season. This is a pretty extended slump, but his stats from literally only a month ago suggest to me that he'll bounce back.

And with how he played December on last year (top 5), I agree that he will bounce back.

 

[Gurglesons]

2017 Caps series says hi. Good thing they had both. The great 2009 Wings say hi. He was Conn Smythe worthy in 2008.

2017 Caps series was where we took a 3-1 stranglehold and then nearly blew it correct?

2009 was where we got blasted out nearly every series one game correct?

 

[heysmilinstrange]

I have said it before but I think Jarry is actually calm cool and collected. Murray acts it but really isn't. I remember his weird excuses when Boeser owned his ass. I got to see a crack in his armour and facade.

Whatever he needs to do to get that mental toughness back, isn't working fast enough.

I don't really buy this reasoning because we have a lot of evidence to suggest that Murray is calm under pressure. If we apply your analogy to Sid instead, it would be like saying Sid is bad under pressure because of that snotty interview he gave during the Flyers series in 2012. We all know that he's not. Like Sid, Murray has risen to the occasion in extremely high-pressure situations. One salty interview after a frustrating regular season loss doesn't change anything.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

2017 Caps series was where we took a 3-1 stranglehold and then nearly blew it correct?

2009 was where we got blasted out nearly every series one game correct?

Oh in this timeline Fleury flaked out and the Pens lost?

 

[Gurglesons]

Oh in this timeline Fleury flaked out and the Pens lost?

2008 is honestly the only playoffs run I find impressive in MAF’s Penguins career. Every other year we succeeded without him or in spite of him.

 

[cvrle1]

Murray didn't really come out of nowhere. His last junior season was better than any of Jarry's junior seasons, and he won the AHL ROY and best goaltender in his first pro season. Jarry, by comparison, struggled in the AHL through parts of even last season, which was his 4th.

Jarry was just drafted higher, and that was mostly because Edmonton in his draft year was loaded, where as the Greyhounds in Murray's draft year were horrible.

I don't think that this is true at all. Unless you have something to back that up besides their draft position.

I heard a relayed convo on NHLN radio, talking about draft day stories. One in particular about the Pen's scouts on draft day, 2012. "we ran into some Pens scouts chatting and they were giddy. They said, 'we just got the steal of the draft.' We asked who, and they said Matt Murray. They said 'you don't understand, this kid has a mental makeup far behind his years, this kid is something special. You are going to see.'"

And it appears they were right. Whatever happens from here on out, they got their money's worth out of him. They were high on him from the start. This "out of nowhere" stuff, I don't think is accurate.

It is hard to find articles from 2016 and further back, but here is a quick blurb that i could find:

It wasn’t long ago that the Pittsburgh Penguins top goaltending prospect was Tristan Jarry and almost no one knew who Matt Murray even was. However, within the last two years, Murray has taken the league by storm and was recently recalled to serve as starter Marc-Andre Fleury’s backup for the remainder of the season. (Published on Tuesday, March 8, 2016 )

I read this on more than one occasion on various sites. I just wish I could find this one specific article that was really well written from years ago. It said precisely what I did, and that Jarry was always thought of as next #1 after MAF leaves. Also, Jarry was born, raised and played few km from where I live, so I saw a lot more of him, and read a lot of stories about him before anyone in Pittsburgh knew he existed.

 

[Mario_is_BACK!!]

2008 is honestly the only playoffs run I find impressive in MAF’s Penguins career. Every other year we succeeded without him or in spite of him.

This is some excessively impressive revisionist history.

 

[Gurglesons]

This is some excessively impressive revisionist history.

K. Name me a series that MAF won for us. Because NYR 2014 and PHI 2012 are largely on him. I’d argue TBL 2011 as well.

 

[Ryder71]

2017 Caps series was where we took a 3-1 stranglehold and then nearly blew it correct?

2009 was where we got blasted out nearly every series one game correct?

Sid missed nearly two full games in that series in 2017. You lose a player of that caliber that would in theory hurt your chances regardless of the goalie. And besides, we still won the series.

 

[Gurglesons]

Sid missed nearly two full games in that series in 2017. You lose a player of that caliber that would in theory hurt your chances regardless of the goalie. And besides, we still won the series.

Sure, but people like to paint MAF like we rode him to some amazing goaltending performance in that series. He was fine. As he was in most of his playoff performances when he wasn’t bad. The only playoff performances he was lights out in were 08 and 18. I guess you could argue he was very good in 2015 despite the loss too.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Sure, but people like to paint MAF like we rode him to some amazing goaltending performance in that series. He was fine. As he was in most of his playoff performances when he wasn’t bad. The only playoff performances he was lights out in were 08 and 18. I guess you could argue he was very good in 2015 despite the loss too.

You might want to look at the first 2 series in 2017.

I can tell you Murray has never seen or played a workload like that. Not even in 2016.

 

[Gurglesons]

You might want to look at the first 2 series in 2017.

I can tell you Murray has never seen or played a workload like that. Not even in 2016.

The only reason Fleury’s SV% looks good in those series is because of how we collapsed. There is a reason his SV% completely blew up when he was playing away.

Murray’s playoffs the last two years would be considered “bad” for him and they are essentially Fleury’s average numbers in the playoffs.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I knew once Murray started to struggle the reinvention of Fleury's past here would begin in earnest.

 

[Ugene Magic]

The only reason Fleury’s SV% looks good in those series is because of how we collapsed. There is a reason his SV% completely blew up when he was playing away.

He saw 30+ shots every game, no fewer than 32 for the first 10 games. Not until the final 2 games in the Caps series did he see a reprieve. And not much of one.

The final game against CBJ he saw 51 shots in reg.

They didn't collapse very well.

 

[Gurglesons]

He saw 30+ shots every game, no fewer than 32 for the first 10 games. Not until the final 2 games in the Caps series did he see a reprieve. And not much of one.

The final game against CBJ he saw 51 shots in reg.

They didn't collapse very well.

Well, the point of collapsing is to eliminate high danger shots, not shots in general.

It’s actually how Washington beat us the next year and how they won the cup. They realized that taking volume of shots wasn’t as successful as taking THE RIGHT shot. Something we did to them in both 2016 and 2017..

 

[Ugene Magic]

Well, the point of collapsing is to eliminate high danger shots, not shots in general.

It’s actually how Washington beat us the next year and how they won the cup. They realized that taking volume of shots wasn’t as successful as taking THE RIGHT shot. Something we did to them in both 2016 and 2017..

The Pens had a huge flaw the year they won. It's called not having depth at defense.

Oleksiak and Ruhwedel were your 3rd pairing. Depth had ceased to be in the Penguins favor.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Pens had a huge flaw the year they won. It's called not having depth at defense.

Oleksiak and Ruhwedel were your 3rd pairing. Depth had ceased to be in the Penguins favor.

Doesn’t change the fact you thought I was arguing that collapsing meant less shots. Which it doesn’t.

Hard to argue with you when I was saying that Fleury’s SV% benefited from weak quality shots and then you said “but Fleury was facing lots of shots”

 

[ChaosAgent]

2008 is honestly the only playoffs run I find impressive in MAF’s Penguins career. Every other year we succeeded without him or in spite of him.

MAF vastly outplayed Bobs and Holtby in 2017.

I don't know why we're arguing about this. Murray is floundering badly and perhaps shouldn't be a Penguin this time next year. However we clearly made the right decision to let MAF go to Vegas in 2017. Those two statements can simultaneously be true.

 

[Jacob]

2008 is honestly the only playoffs run I find impressive in MAF’s Penguins career. Every other year we succeeded without him or in spite of him.

I agree with this. I think people overrate his play in 2009 because the last thing they remember is that big save on Lidstrom, but for the most part he wasn't that great in that run. He was outplayed significantly by Varlamov in the 1st round and finishing with a .908 save percentage in the lower-scoring playoffs is pretty bad. Maybe one of the lowest SA%s of the eventual Cup winning goaltender in the last few decades?

Having said that I don't think Murray was exactly like, lights-out in either run either. I might need to look into the games and highlights to refresh my memory a bit but I felt like there were times when he was just OK enough.. made the saves he needed to, certainly. More like Osgood in 08 than Giguere in 03, basically.

 

[Gurglesons]

I agree with this. I think people overrate his play in 2009 because the last thing they remember is that big save on Lidstrom, but for the most part he wasn't that great in that run. He was outplayed significantly by Varlamov in the 1st round and finishing with a .908 save percentage in the lower-scoring playoffs is pretty bad. Maybe one of the lowest SA%s of the eventual Cup winning goaltender in the last few decades?

Having said that I don't think Murray was exactly like, lights-out in either run either. I might need to look into the games and highlights to refresh my memory a bit but I felt like there were times when he was just OK enough.. made the saves he needed to, certainly. More like Osgood in 08 than Giguere in 03, basically.

Murray was arguably lights out in 2017. In 2016 he was exactly what we had been asking for since 2009. An above average, steady presence in net.

 

[Jacob]

It almost doesn't seem worth it to commit >6 years and >$6 million to a goalie that isn't going to be consistently good all the time. That one year where your skaters are firing on all cylinders and you're ready to make a run and the goalie just isn't there mentally or physically or whatever, seems like a huge waste. And a contract like that, if the goalie isn't playing well, is unmovable.

 

[Gurglesons]

It almost doesn't seem worth it to commit >6 years and >$6 million to a goalie that isn't going to be consistently good all the time. That one year where your skaters are firing on all cylinders and you're ready to make a run and the goalie just isn't there mentally or physically or whatever, seems like a huge waste. And a contract like that, if the goalie isn't playing well, is unmovable.

Or would argue in today’s NHL anything past three years for a goalie is silly.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Murray was arguably lights out in 2017. In 2016 he was exactly what we had been asking for since 2009. An above average, steady presence in net.

See, that easy to say for 2017 for Murray. He should be lights out. He played 11 games against inferior teams. While I agree about the steady presence in 2016 he also was insulated heavily by a team that took the league by storm and was set in place before his arrival.

Oh, and the "above average goalie" was not the term used back then.

This is where Murray was overrated and being pushed as the next top 5. In reality he was seeing far less shots and at times not even hitting the 20's mark. Once seeing only 17 and a couple times at 19. They were a shot blocking, shot suppressing machine with the occasional breakdown.

Only now, when Murray is seeing the likes other goalies have seen and been put through is he seen in that light.

I curbed my stance back then, and knew not to be "too High" beyond the moment, because that's all it was. It might have been extended had JR tried to keep the team together a little longer with only the obvious out in Kunitz and Fleury, but he kept going and going and going. Now you see everything playing out in it's true form. The team is no longer that team. They can try and mimic it, but it's still not depth at "all" positions.

The Penguins twice went through two big injuries to Malkin in 2016 Reg. and Letang in 2017 reg./playoffs and had depth to push through. 2017 was more challenging morso in the first 2 series than in the last less Letang.