Is Malkin the best player in the world?

[Fergus]

So you agree Crosby was better than Malkin in the 2009 playoffs despite point totals?

No, because when Malkin overcomes less ice time and worse linemates and beats Crosby he's clearly superior. When Crosby wins in points we have to look other factors.

 

[Brooklanders*]

No he is not the best.

 

[daver]

No, because when Malkin overcomes less ice time and worse linemates and beats Crosby he's clearly superior. When Crosby wins in points we have to look other factors.

I see, Crosby has simply smoked and mirrored his way to a difference in production that rivals some of the all-time greats.

 

[daver]

Even So let's have a look at it season by season, generally I would take a players PPG into consideration if they played at least 60 games, otherwise it is too speculative..

How about a PPG based on a sample size of 500 plus games?

 

[Fergus]

I see, Crosby has simply smoked and mirrored his way to a difference in production that rivals some of the all-time greats.

I want to see all-time points/60 list.

 

[daver]

I want to see all-time points/60 list.

Why? Separation from peers is the best metric.

Why wouldn't Crosby's career PPG advantage over his peers be as impressive as Jagr's, Espositos', Hull's or Howe's over a 10 year period?

 

[MrBrightside]

I want to see all-time points/60 list.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/leaders/points_per_game_career.html

 

[daver]

people who try to say someone's better than crosby are trying too hard

There's a complete double standard.

Malkin would have a better PPG if he played 1st line minutes, more icetime etc... based on a sample size of 80 games

But speculating on how Crosby finishes any of his partial seasons is not allowed to be part of the discussion.

 

[tread102]

I honestly don't think we will ever know the answer to this question. I know that Malkin has elevated his game when Crosby has been out for long stretches. I think Malkin is a very unique in that fact that he has talent to be the best player in the world, but ok with being number 2 on a team. I know he could carry a team, and if he was on his own team I think the argument becomes more clear.

As a Pen's fan I've always enjoyed watching Malkin more that Crosby.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Even this year Malkin has 3 more points than crosby in 3 more games.... Crosby should start having sub ppg seasons and then start scoring 100+ every couple years then he would get respect because scoring 100+ every healthy year isn't doing it I guess

 

[daver]

I honestly don't think we will ever know the answer to this question. I know that Malkin has elevated his game when Crosby has been out for long stretches. I think Malkin is a very unique in that fact that he has talent to be the best player in the world, but ok with being number 2 on a team. I know he could carry a team, and if he was on his own team I think the argument becomes more clear.

As a Pen's fan I've always enjoyed watching Malkin more that Crosby.

The exact same thing can be said for Crosby. He elevates his game when Malkin is not as productive.

It can be just as easily speculated Crosby is more productive if he didn't the 2nd best player on his team to take some of the offensive load.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The exact same thing can be said for Crosby. He elevates his game when Malkin is not as productive.

It can be just as easily speculated Crosby is more productive if he didn't the 2nd best player on his team to take some of the offensive load.

To go further with this crosby has had some of his best hockey with Malkin playing significantly worse than him. 06-07 10-11 12-13

 

[yuri28]

He's certainly been the best penguins player since the last POs.

 

[yuri28]

So you agree Crosby was better than Malkin in the 2009 playoffs despite point totals?

Crosby was the better 2 way player, more disciplined, was snakebit against Detroit and took on Detroit's best defensive players while Makin was free of Datsyuk who shut him down the year before.

Except you forget to mention Malkin was apparently playing with an injury.
Also, Malkin has proved numerous times in the past that he plays better against the top defensive units.

 

[yuri28]

Even this year Malkin has 3 more points than crosby in 3 more games.... Crosby should start having sub ppg seasons and then start scoring 100+ every couple years then he would get respect because scoring 100+ every healthy year isn't doing it I guess

Have you seen with who Malkin has been playing this year?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Have you seen with who Malkin has been playing this year?

Yeah let's not act like crosby hasent played games with scrubs as well. Downie and spaling for sometime. Don't forget last season Brian gibbons as his rw

 

[Cool Bryz]

The last season both Crosby and Malkin were healthy was 08-09, right? And Malkin had a slight edge in PPG. If this happens again this season, I would say there is an argument for Malkin. Until then, it is Crosby's title to lose (and not through injury).

Stamkos is not in the conversation, sorry. Since the start of 2013 he has the same PPG as Seguin. Crosby and Malkin are well ahead of the pack.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Scoring finishes

Crosby 1st, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, 6th
Malkin 1st, 1st, 2nd

Ppg finishes
Crosby 1st 1st 1st 1st 2nd 3rd 3rd
Malkin 1st 2nd 3rd

Crosby is better AINEC

 

[JudgeandJury]

The greatest player in the world moniker has always been bestowed upon forwards that were GOAL SCORERS with playmaking abilities. Flip the attributes, look at forwards that were primarily playmakers with some goal scoring and you end up with Bernie Federko, Adam Oates, Niklas Backstrom, etc., all fine players but usually immediately eliminated from greatest player discussion.

The Lemieux-Gretzky debate didn't really heat up until Mario raised his goal scoring pace while Wayne's dropped in the late 80s.

If you take a close look at Crosby's numbers, his goal scoring has been in a steady decline since peaking in 2009-2010. Take all of Crosby's NHL games, playoffs and regular season, starting with yesterday's game, and work back in 82 game blocks:

82gm Block #1 - Includes games from 2009-2010 - 51 goals
82gm Block #2 - a little of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012, a little of 2012-2013 - 47 goals
82gm Block #3 - 2012-2013, 2013-2014 - 39 goals
82gm Block #4 - 2013-2014 & this year - 26 goals

That's a steady decline into Bernie Federko land. The question is whether it will turn around or is this the new 87. If it is then the crown must be relinquished.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

Does anyone ever notice that the people that chime in about how much better Malkin is are almost always non-Pens fans and Russians?

It's a shot at the franchise player, and that is all it is. Pens fans know who the better player is, has been, and will likely continue to be, and that is Crosby. Why dow e think this? Because we actually watch ALL the games.

Who has the better wingers, who gets "first line minutes", and all that garbage is just, well, garbage.

Nice try, but you are all failing to prove anything, once again.

 

[b in vancouver]

The greatest player in the world moniker has always been bestowed upon forwards that were GOAL SCORERS with playmaking abilities. Flip the attributes, look at forwards that were primarily playmakers with some goal scoring and you end up with Bernie Federko, Adam Oates, Niklas Backstrom, etc., all fine players but usually immediately eliminated from greatest player discussion.

The Lemieux-Gretzky debate didn't really heat up until Mario raised his goal scoring pace while Wayne's dropped in the late 80s.

If you take a close look at Crosby's numbers, his goal scoring has been in a steady decline since peaking in 2009-2010. Take all of Crosby's NHL games, playoffs and regular season, starting with yesterday's game, and work back in 82 game blocks:

82gm Block #1 - Includes games from 2009-2010 - 51 goals
82gm Block #2 - a little of 2009-2010, 2010-2011, 2011-2012, a little of 2012-2013 - 47 goals
82gm Block #3 - 2012-2013, 2013-2014 - 39 goals
82gm Block #4 - 2013-2014 & this year - 26 goals

That's a steady decline into Bernie Federko land. The question is whether it will turn around or is this the new 87. If it is then the crown must be relinquished.

I'm not sure if I agree with this assertion. Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr were all more playmakers then scorers. Thornton and H. Sedin won a couple of awards. Martin St. Louis. And Crosby is another example - not proof that he isn't the best player.
Who are the goal-scorers that have ever been considered the best. Espo (if he never played at the same time as Orr), The Golden Jet, The Flower. - anyone else?

I'm not his biggest fan and think he shrinks a bit during important games but he just consistently impacts games more than anyone else right now. Over the past decade or so there's only been a handful of guys who I think compare but it's hard not to put Crosby as foremost. Pronger, Malkin, Chara, Thornton, Iginla, Ovechkin - although watching the Sedins work the power play was a thing of beauty. The only player you can make the argument for is Ovechkin.

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

No, because when Malkin overcomes less ice time and worse linemates and beats Crosby he's clearly superior. When Crosby wins in points we have to look other factors.

If the Pens (not Crosby haters) thought Malkin was superior, wouldn't he get more ice time? Think about it...there we go...

 

[I am not exposed]

And we all just agree that Crosby and Malkin are better than Stamkos.

 

[Sam Spade]

I think he is the best offensive player in the league, without a doubt.

 

[Birko19]

He's the second best Russian in the world after Ovechkin so he's second best in the world.

We're talking about now, not 5 years ago.