Is Malkin the best player in the world?

[kp61c]

crosby is better, malkin is the second one. the rest ain't even in conversetion. AINEC!!!

 

[billybudd]

Agree with most.

I would say that Leetch had a spring where he was regarded the best. That Conny Smyth-run was one for the ages. But that´s hardly enough time, so agree on him.

Chara and Chelios had time periods where they would challenge for it. A D-oriented expert could easily have argumented for them.

The one I don´t agree with is Potvin. In Orrs abscence and before Gretzky he, Lafleur and Clarke (and later teammate Trottier) each probably was seen as the best player in the leauge, depending on wich expert you asked. Maybe even Park some year...

Leetch was regarded as the best player that spring, but you'd never have found someone who would have taken him over Feds or 99 in a vacuum that year. His argument for being, on balance, better than even Bourque would have been flimsy. And I loved watching Leetch.

It's unlikely to me that you could have found a Habs fan that thought Chelios was better than Roy, let alone any fan that thought he was better than 99 or 66. When Chelios went to Chicago, Belfour seemed very much "the guy," with Roenick and Chelios a half a step below.

With Potvin...like I said...I'm not real sure what would have been said of him in market, but Bossy was the rockstar on Long Island and Trotts, widely believed to be the best overall player. If Potvin could have been argued to be the league's best player, which is possible, it would have been for a very brief period of time.

 

[MOGlLNY]

Malkin lacks the intangibles to be even considered better then Crosby.

However a play like Towes.
Almost a ppg forward but with his two-way play probably stops an extra 50 goals. Making him a 130 point player every season. Crosby and Malkin at there best didn't even come close.

Towes
Crosby
Malkin

Is this post real life?

 

[Human]

Is this post real life?

he spelled Toews' name wrong numerous times, obviously not serious...

 

[Pip]

No he's not

 

[malkshake]

The way I see it broken down from year to year is like this:

06-07 Crosby was better, but it was also Malkin's rookie year. Kind of a wash.

07-08 Malkin was better.

08-09 Malkin was better.

09-10 Crosby was better.

10-11 Crosby was better.

11-12 Malkin was better.

12-13 Crosby was better.

13-14 Crosby was better, but should also be noted Malkin tied him for the league lead the day he went down with injury. Would have been a great race.

14-15 Malkin has been better, and should be a great race barring any serious injury.

Although IMO Malkin's 08-09 and 11-12 seasons were the most impressive seasons between both players. The NHL changes season to season that's why just going off PPG is kind of pointless. Crosby has the highest PPG, that's unarguable, but comparing their value season to season it's a lot closer. Saying this as a die hard Pens fan who watches all the games. Our playoffs MVP through their careers, Malkin no doubt which to me counts for a lot. Crosby is better, but it's super close and any given year this can change.

 

[daver]

The way I see it broken down from year to year is like this:

06-07 Crosby was better, but it was also Malkin's rookie year. Kind of a wash.

07-08 Malkin was better.

08-09 Malkin was better.

09-10 Crosby was better.

10-11 Crosby was better.

11-12 Malkin was better.

12-13 Crosby was better.

13-14 Crosby was better, but should also be noted Malkin tied him for the league lead the day he went down with injury. Would have been a great race.

14-15 Malkin has been better, and should be a great race barring any serious injury.

Although IMO Malkin's 08-09 and 11-12 seasons were the most impressive seasons between both players. The NHL changes season to season that's why just going off PPG is kind of pointless. Crosby has the highest PPG, that's unarguable, but comparing their value season to season it's a lot closer. Saying this as a die hard Pens fan who watches all the games. Our playoffs MVP through their careers, Malkin no doubt which to me counts for a lot. Crosby is better, but it's super close and any given year this can change.

Your breakdown is a bit off kilter.

After 2009 he had a legitimate claim to the top spot with Crosby and OV. He dropped off after four years of mediocre play/injuries sandwiched between his peak season in 2012.

If he clearly bests Crosby this year, which he never really has, he can move back into the conversation as the best player with Crosby.

Crosby has set himself apart from the pack enough it would take two years for him to be dethroned.

 

[BackhandToeyJoey]

When Malkin's on, he's the best player in the universe lol His crazy Conn Smythe run proves that.

 

[GarrettC]

When on, he is the best in the league. When he isn't, often Crosby is. As a Pens fan I am not complaining.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The way I see it broken down from year to year is like this:

06-07 Crosby was better, but it was also Malkin's rookie year. Kind of a wash.

07-08 Malkin was better.

08-09 Malkin was better.

09-10 Crosby was better.

10-11 Crosby was better.

11-12 Malkin was better.

12-13 Crosby was better.

13-14 Crosby was better, but should also be noted Malkin tied him for the league lead the day he went down with injury. Would have been a great race.

14-15 Malkin has been better, and should be a great race barring any serious injury.

Although IMO Malkin's 08-09 and 11-12 seasons were the most impressive seasons between both players. The NHL changes season to season that's why just going off PPG is kind of pointless. Crosby has the highest PPG, that's unarguable, but comparing their value season to season it's a lot closer. Saying this as a die hard Pens fan who watches all the games. Our playoffs MVP through their careers, Malkin no doubt which to me counts for a lot. Crosby is better, but it's super close and any given year this can change.

It can be strongly argued that crosby was better in 07-08. He was the leagues leading scorer before getting injured and finished with a higher ppg than Malkin. 1.36 to 1.29 and crosby has never dropped below 1.30 ppg since his rookie year. Then he led the playoffs with 27 points. So the only seasons where we can say for sure Malkin was better is 08-09 and 11-12 and if your gonna note malkins injury in 13-14 you have to note crosbys in 07-08

 

[KrisLetAngry]

he spelled Toews' name wrong numerous times, obviously not serious...

Towes*

 

[AntonRodin*]

Nope. No way. Obviously not. No.

 

[malkshake]

It can be strongly argued that crosby was better in 07-08. He was the leagues leading scorer before getting injured and finished with a higher ppg than Malkin. 1.36 to 1.29 and crosby has never dropped below 1.30 ppg since his rookie year. Then he led the playoffs with 27 points. So the only seasons where we can say for sure Malkin was better is 08-09 and 11-12 and if your gonna note malkins injury in 13-14 you have to note crosbys in 07-08

The PPG is very close but Malkin had 47 goals, Crosby wasn't scoring goals at that pace. Malkin was dominant in the playoffs too until he was crushed by Richards and caught the flu in the finals. 13-14 Malkin's playoffs should be noted against Crosby's if we take the season as a whole into consideration.

 

[mrv52]

Your breakdown is a bit off kilter.

After 2009 he had a legitimate claim to the top spot with Crosby and OV. He dropped off after four years of mediocre play/injuries sandwiched between his peak season in 2012.

If he clearly bests Crosby this year, which he never really has, he can move back into the conversation as the best player with Crosby.

Crosby has set himself apart from the pack enough it would take two years for him to be dethroned.

but but...you told us in another thread it was about overall career, not season to season? Which is it?

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

The PPG is very close but Malkin had 47 goals, Crosby wasn't scoring goals at that pace. Malkin was dominant in the playoffs too until he was crushed by Richards and caught the flu in the finals. 13-14 Malkin's playoffs should be noted against Crosby's if we take the season as a whole into consideration.

Crosby was on pace for 35-40 goals that season so it's not like he wasent scoring. The reg season is close call it a wash. But you noted that Malkin was injured in 13-14 but you failed to do so in 07-08 for crosby. An 07-08 crosby was leading the league in points half way through the season. Much better than Malkin was in 13-14.

 

[malkshake]

Crosby was on pace for 35-40 goals that season so it's not like he wasent scoring. The reg season is close call it a wash. But you noted that Malkin was injured in 13-14 but you failed to do so in 07-08 for crosby. An 07-08 crosby was leading the league in points half way through the season. Much better than Malkin was in 13-14.

Getting the feeling you didn't watch the Penguins at all in 07-08. Crosby was leading the league in points when he went down, what Malkin did after was just amazing though. 100% of Pens fans will tell you Malkin was better that year I thought it was common knowledge. Not like I didn't say Crosby was better in 13-14, it specifically says Crosby was better.

 

[Lomez]

I am intrigued about how and why it is so important to prove one guy is the greatest in the world as opposed to the other. Is there really that big a difference between Sid and EM and maybe even a couple other guys?

As they say, on any given day...

 

[canadianguy77]

but but...you told us in another thread it was about overall career, not season to season? Which is it?

It's not Ovechkin, that's for sure.

As a Pens fan, it sure is great knowing that no matter what night it is, or season for that matter, you have the best hockey player in the world on your team.

 

[Loopy0ne]

what he said seems to be appropriate

 

[meenamjah]

Like in the last 2 POs??
I love Sid but i hate people who make him look better than he truly is.
If he were that much better than Geno, his ppg during POs wouldn't be that close to Geno's for example.

but then again, who do the opposing team think is the bigger threat? teams use their best defenders against Crosby.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

As a Penguins fan, these arguments are always from people outside of our fan base.

To us, we have 2 of the best players in the world on 1 team. We good.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Malkin is not the second best player in hockey. He's just not as good as other players I have watched perform.
He does put up alot of points and scores a host of goals and plays a very important role in his teams success.

 

[daver]

but but...you told us in another thread it was about overall career, not season to season? Which is it?

Why don't you just say "Ovechkin" and save some space.

Career value:

Crosby
OV
Malkin

Best player:

Crosby
Malkin
OV

 

[JudgeandJury]

I'm not sure if I agree with this assertion. Lemieux, Gretzky, Jagr were all more playmakers then scorers. Thornton and H. Sedin won a couple of awards. Martin St. Louis. And Crosby is another example - not proof that he isn't the best player.
Who are the goal-scorers that have ever been considered the best. Espo (if he never played at the same time as Orr), The Golden Jet, The Flower. - anyone else?

I'm not his biggest fan and think he shrinks a bit during important games but he just consistently impacts games more than anyone else right now. Over the past decade or so there's only been a handful of guys who I think compare but it's hard not to put Crosby as foremost. Pronger, Malkin, Chara, Thornton, Iginla, Ovechkin - although watching the Sedins work the power play was a thing of beauty. The only player you can make the argument for is Ovechkin.

#1, #6 and #10 all-time in goals? More playmaker than scorer? They all exerted their dominance through a prolific combination of goals AND assists. Its when you slip away from that deadly combination of abilities that you come down from the top of the list.

Joe Thornton? Stopped scoring goals.
Ovechkin? Stopped making plays.
St. Louis? Got old, less prolific
Jagr? Got old, less prolific

Crosby is dangerously close to falling into the stopped scoring goals category, if he's not already there. Right now he's got one more than Niklas Backstrom, who's the post child for very good player but always not in the best player debate. Why? He doesn't score enough goals!

And why does goal scoring matter so much? Uhhh, besides the obvious reason?!?

Consider this, hockey results are like a pyramid, with goals at the top:

Over 90% of shots on goal FAIL to result in a goal.

About half of all shots attempted FAIL to result in a shot on goal.

I don't have numbers, but I think its safe to say that over 75% of all passes in the offensive zone FAIL to even produce a shot attempt.

That's a lot, A LOT of playmaking that results in nothing but zone time. Valuable, but in the way that nickels are valuable. You still need a lot of nickels to get to bucks.

With all the new metrics in hockey, the value of goals vs assists is one of the last outdated metrics that needs an overhaul.

 

[daver]

#1, #6 and #10 all-time in goals? More playmaker than scorer? They all exerted their dominance through a prolific combination of goals AND assists. Its when you slip away from that deadly combination of abilities that you come down from the top of the list.

Joe Thornton? Stopped scoring goals.
Ovechkin? Stopped making plays.
St. Louis? Got old, less prolific
Jagr? Got old, less prolific

Crosby is dangerously close to falling into the stopped scoring goals category, if he's not already there. Right now he's got one more than Niklas Backstrom, who's the post child for very good player but always not in the best player debate. Why? He doesn't score enough goals!

And why does goal scoring matter so much? Uhhh, besides the obvious reason?!?

Consider this, hockey results are like a pyramid, with goals at the top:

Over 90% of shots on goal FAIL to result in a goal.

About half of all shots attempted FAIL to result in a shot on goal.

I don't have numbers, but I think its safe to say that over 75% of all passes in the offensive zone FAIL to even produce a shot attempt.

That's a lot, A LOT of playmaking that results in nothing but zone time. Valuable, but in the way that nickels are valuable. You still need a lot of nickels to get to bucks.

With all the new metrics in hockey, the value of goals vs assists is one of the last outdated metrics that needs an overhaul.

First of all, let's wait and see how he finishes this year before declaring him not a goal scorer. He was a Top 5 goal scorer last season, a little below his Top 3 rating in his career.

Secondly, you seem to assume his assist totals would not increase with any decrease in goals.

Thirdly, the value of goals vs assists is not black and white like some want to make it out to be. The great playmakers have shown that increasing the goal totals of your linemates is just as effective as putting it in the net themselves.