TSN: Is Kessel the New Sundin?

[LV*]

Find me some one softer then Phil Kessel. Please.

Hull and Bossy were unbelievable talents. Kessel hasn't even scored 40+ goals in a season and you bring up those two? Come on man.

Mason Raymond

 

[Trapper]

That's just a ridiculous exageration. Kessel is fine on posession but his strength is in the rush and the PP. He's not useless on defensive, just below average like quite a few high scoring wingers.

5 man and one goalie game, not one guy doing everything.

Bozak
Kadri
Holland?
?
Lol what the hell are we supposed to do with that?
Problem 1.

 

[ConnorTO]

i remember when he signed, it was such a big hit

8 million smackers!
but the thing is he some what deserve it
great player

 

[HoweHullOrr]

People love these comparison deals. I'm not sure why. I like both players. Plus, they play different positions, so that makes it harder to compare.

 

[Stephen]

I think Kessel fits more into the Rick Vaive, Ed Olczyk, Gary Leeman school of offensive winger who had nice stats in a dark time in the franchise's history. If the Leafs ever move onto better things, you won't really care about this era or its players.

 

[TheScruffington]

Phil is being criminally underrated in here. Obviously Sundin was a better and more complete player than Phil is, but #81's been getting better every year that he's worn the Blue and White, was just named the top offensive player in the biggest international tournament, and has established himself as an integral part of the team's core.

In what way has Kessel gotten better compared to last season? If you're talking about point production, it actually got worse this season.

Performing well at the Olympics is great and all, but that's not the most important event. Which would make you happier: seeing the Leafs win the Stanley Cup, or seeing Canada or USA win the gold medal? If you care about the Leafs more than you do international teams, then you might realize just how little that actually means.

Kessel is a part of this team's core. Unfortunately it's a core that sucks.

Sundin carried an average to above average team on his back to perennial playoff appearances pre-lockout but wasn't able to carry a mediocre to lousy team to the playoffs post-lockout. Granted he was starting to wear down by then, but it's not fair when you consider what Phil's had to work with. Look at the Leafs teams when Phil first arrived here. They're a complete joke. If the Leafs ever manage to construct an average team then I think Phil will most certainly prove himself to be the game-breaker and difference-maker that he is.

The Leafs still are a joke. And you can't fill the holes in our roster while keeping players like Dion and Phil. There's a thing called the salary cap.

 

[o Oblivious]

People always say this.

The Leafs' problem back then was not Sundin's winger and/or Sundin's line's lack of offence.

It was because we didn't have defence and a 2nd line.

Who were our second line centermen back then, for example? Where are they now? Can't remember can you? Thought so.

I'll never, for the life of me, understand why people get so fixated on point totals.

No I think he is suggesting that Kessel needs forwards, defence, and a goalie to cover up the fact that he doesn't play a defensive/possession game.....at all.

I am confused by your statements.

Sundin had far more talent to play with leading up to the lockout then Kessel has had the entire time he has been here.

I may be interpreting it incorrectly, but it seems like you are saying Sundin is excused for not having any talent around him (which he did), but Kessel is not?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Kessel is great but the two players are not comparable. Different types of players completely and Mats was far superior to Phil, with due respect to Kessel.

Sundin was an excellent leader..a bull...a possession player....a cycler...a workhorse. He was tough in the sense that he was not easily intimidated and was big bodied....shielded the puck very well. Awesome playmaker and clutch goal scorer.

Kessel is perhaps the playmaker..scorer part but nothing else. I wouldn't say he was a better scorer than Mats either nor playmaker. Sundin at this point of Kessel's career pretty much was better in every facet of the game.

 

[o Oblivious]

The problem isn't Kessel here. You can't compare Kessel to Sundin. Different players. You need to have both types of players to win. Did Sundin ever win anything? No, not because he wasn't good enough, he just didn't have that elite winger ala Kessel. The same thing can be said vice versa for Kessel.

People would hate on Patick Kane the same way they hate on Kessel if it weren't for a guy like Johnathon Toews. A two way center who can lead. And Toews wouldn't be as highly regarded if it weren't for the elite wingers he plays with.

We have our elite winger, now lets get our elite center to play with him.

Mogilny says hi!

 

[Trapper]

In what way has Kessel gotten better compared to last season? If you're talking about point production, it actually got worse this season.

Performing well at the Olympics is great and all, but that's not the most important event. Which would make you happier: seeing the Leafs win the Stanley Cup, or seeing Canada or USA win the gold medal? If you care about the Leafs more than you do international teams, then you might realize just how little that actually means.

Kessel is a part of this team's core. Unfortunately it's a core that sucks.




The Leafs still are a joke. And you can't fill the holes in our roster while keeping players like Dion and Phil. There's a thing called the salary cap.

Despite all his shortcomings, without Kessel we are pretty much the worst team in the league. Phaneuf? Lol who cares without Kessel he's just the leader of the worst team in the league. Until we start getting some high end players especially at key positions, we will fluctuate between where we are and maybe the wildcard. More likely the first.

 

[rdawg1234]

Kessel is great but the two players are not comparable. Different types of players completely and Mats was far superior to Phil, with due respect to Kessel.

Sundin was an excellent leader..a bull...a possession player....a cycler...a workhorse. He was tough in the sense that he was not easily intimidated and was big bodied....shielded the puck very well. Awesome playmaker and clutch goal scorer.

Kessel is perhaps the playmaker..scorer part but nothing else. I wouldn't say he was a better scorer than Mats either nor playmaker. Sundin at this point of Kessel's career pretty much was better in every facet of the game.

It's ridiculous to compare them, basically the only similarity is that they are both the "stars" of the leafs, leading the offensive production.

Sundin playing centre HAS to be strong defensively and should also be great at possession etc. Kessel as Winger has much less of a focus on defence.

I highly doubt many Wingers in the HHOF were known for their amazing defensive play, the vast majority were just great scorers, often a side-product of having a great team!

 

[a a ron]

Kessel has 8 years to bring us the cup. If he ever does then I think he'll be better than Sundin.

 

[diceman934]

It's ridiculous to compare them, basically the only similarity is that they are both the "stars" of the leafs, leading the offensive production.

Sundin playing centre HAS to be strong defensively and should also be great at possession etc. Kessel as Winger has much less of a focus on defence.

I highly doubt many Wingers in the HHOF were known for their amazing defensive play, the vast majority were just great scorers, often a side-product of having a great team!

Maybe you should check facts before posting this stuff!

Bob Gainey who won the Selke 4 times was a winger...who was not a great offensive player....in the HHOF. Lots of tough mean as hell wingers in the Hall. Including Mr Hockey!

 

[kujo31]

Some leaf fans can never be happy

They judge our players by things that aren't good at, oh Kessel can score, but he isn't great at defence !! Yes wow great opinion, that so stupid it makes my brain hurt

Why cant we just be happy having a player like Kessel ? why cant we just enjoy what he is ?
Why do Leaf fans feel the need to **** all over him ?

If we had Kane would they be saying this about him ?

Its not on Kessel to be a two way player like Towes (He has improved in this aspect too), he is a sniper with unique ability to also be a pretty good playmaker.

Its on the management to compliment his style of play, Kessel has done everything asked of him, he has improved in almost every aspect of the game since joining, he shows up every game, he had a good playoffs against a team he needed to step up against.

Im amazed that some Leaf Fans can just be so blind, STOP ASKING PLAYERS TO BE WHAT THE ARE NOT !! or you'll never be happy, you cant ask a long distance runner to run the 100 meter and you cant ask a short distance runner to run the 800 meter, unless you wanna be disappointed.

Its up to the leafs management to find a two way forward to shoulder that load, but I can already see that player getting bashed for not being a sniper !!

 

[Leafspoison*]

I was watching TSN Top 10 about the trade that brought Sundin, arguably one of the greatest IF not the greatest to ever dawn the maple leaf of their chest.

At first people questioned his heart, passion and willingness to lead. This seems to be the same for Kessel. We all can agree he's got world class skill and talent and ability to put up points. Yet, he doesn't get the proper praise and recognition. People often argue he should be moved cause he isn't what wins you championships. How is a 26 turning 27 year old point per game winger who is the cornerstone of this teams offensive production. He's shown commitment to this city (a guy who apparently hates the spot light WANTED to stay here for the next 8 years of his life).

I understand that Kessel trade came with the departures of Futures, one of which is now a franchise #1 centre in Seguin & still potential top 2 defenseman in Hamilton. However, Sundin came at the cost of a former #1 overall and a good o'l Canadian boy that was the life line to this hockey team.

my question to you, when will this city finally acknowledge how great Kessel truly is. Will it be when he's retired or perhaps if he ends up leaving via trade one day.

He might not be the Leafs next captain, however he should be THE MOST UNTOUCHABLE PLAYER on this team. No question about it in my mind.

You must be young. I grew up with the REAL greats to don a leafs jersey.

FYI, sundin was voted 15 best player to play for the leafs.

 

[Leafspoison*]

Some leaf fans can never be happy

They judge our players by things that aren't good at, oh Kessel can score, but he isn't great at defence !! Yes wow great opinion, that so stupid it makes my brain hurt

Why cant we just be happy having a player like Kessel ? why cant we just enjoy what he is ?
Why do Leaf fans feel the need to **** all over him ?

If we had Kane would they be saying this about him ?

Its not on Kessel to be a two way player like Towes (He has improved in this aspect too), he is a sniper with unique ability to also be a pretty good playmaker.

Its on the management to compliment his style of play, Kessel has done everything asked of him, he has improved in almost every aspect of the game since joining, he shows up every game, he had a good playoffs against a team he needed to step up against.

Im amazed that some Leaf Fans can just be so blind, STOP ASKING PLAYERS TO BE WHAT THE ARE NOT !! or you'll never be happy, you cant ask a long distance runner to run the 100 meter and you cant ask a short distance runner to run the 800 meter, unless you wanna be disappointed.

Its up to the leafs management to find a two way forward to shoulder that load, but I can already see that player getting bashed for not being a sniper !!

this in spades

 

[Leafspoison*]

Don't understand why some of you put Sundin on a pedestal and worship him like you do. Regardless of how he left, he was still the captain of the Leafs that missed the playoff half the time he was here. Thats the bottom line.

Kessel is not the captain and not the same player at all, but Kessel will surpass Sundins records if he stays here long enough.

 

[Bardown warrior]

Is Clarkson the new Clark?

Yes.

 

[rdawg1234]

Maybe you should check facts before posting this stuff!

Bob Gainey who won the Selke 4 times was a winger...who was not a great offensive player....in the HHOF. Lots of tough mean as hell wingers in the Hall. Including Mr Hockey!

Are the majority like him though? Was pavel bure(recent inductee) known for his amazing defensive play and hardness or his speed and gamebreaking shot?

I mean I'm sure a few were great defensively and won awards for it, but i'm saying it's very doubtful that the majority were known for defensive play over scoring ability, at least those that played in the 90's and beyond when the game became faster

 

[BraveCanadian]

Ok then. Mike Bossy. Brett Hull. Two players leagues better than Sundin. Please tell me they were defensive dynamos who chased the puck down. The NHL has a vast history of teams winning with guys that could score big goals when you got them the puck.

Bossy was decent defensively. You had to be when playing for Al Arbour then.. Bossy just happened to be lights out offensively.

Hull at his peak was among the best goal scorers ever. Kessel doesn't come close to him there yet. Hull also got better away from the puck as his scoring came down.

Kessel has barely improved in that regard and is frankly terrible defensively and so soft it is embarrassing.

I think Kessel fits more into the Rick Vaive, Ed Olczyk, Gary Leeman school of offensive winger who had nice stats in a dark time in the franchise's history. If the Leafs ever move onto better things, you won't really care about this era or its players.

Olczyk was primarily a center here. Particularly our front line one during the Leafs first .500 season in a while on one of the most fun teams you'd ever watch in 89-90.

You're right though. This crew is entirely forgettable. No one even plays with enough heart to cheer for as an underdog.

They should be sending a cardiologist to check on these guys and see if they have a pulse.

Back to the question: No. Kessel is not the new Sundin. Sundin was better but still left you wanting more.

Hoping they shake things up in the off season..

 

[Leafspoison*]

Bossy was decent defensively. You had to be when playing for Al Arbour then.. Bossy just happened to be lights out offensively.

Hull at his peak was among the best goal scorers ever. Kessel doesn't come close to him there yet. Hull also got better away from the puck as his scoring came down.

Kessel has barely improved in that regard and is frankly terrible defensively and so soft it is embarrassing.




Olczyk was primarily a center here. Particularly our front line one during the Leafs first .500 season in a while on one of the most fun teams you'd ever watch in 89-90.

You're right though. This crew is entirely forgettable. No one even plays with enough heart to cheer for as an underdog.

They should be sending a cardiologist to check on these guys and see if they have a pulse.

Back to the question: No. Kessel is not the new Sundin. Sundin was better but still left you wanting more.

Hoping they shake things up in the off season..

You owe me one beer....because I just power blasted it through my nose with laughter.

 

[HEAVY DUTY]

Sundin >> Kessel.


sundin was an all-around heart and soul player. kessel doesn't strike me as that. he good at scoring but that's about it.

 

[12345678910]

**** I love Phil. That is all.

 

[BraveCanadian]

You owe me one beer....because I just power blasted it through my nose with laughter.

Sowwy.

Sundin >> Kessel.


sundin was an all-around heart and soul player. kessel doesn't strike me as that. he good at scoring but that's about it.

I think Sundin is better than Kessel too and definitely more well rounded.. but heart and soul? Meh.

Gilmour and Clark and Armstrong and Keon are heart and soul players.

That was the main area Sundin and his frame left me wanting. He played much smaller than he was..

 

[Cor]

I think Sundin is better than Kessel too and definitely more well rounded.. but heart and soul? Meh.

Gilmour and Clark and Armstrong and Keon are heart and soul players.

That was the main area Sundin and his frame left me wanting. He played much smaller than he was..

Sundin was easily a Heart and Soul player. He also constantly used his size to his advantage and by no means played "small"

wow