TSN: Is Kessel the New Sundin?

[GreekLeafer]

I just checked Sundins stats for his whole career.

He finished top 10 in points once. he finished top 10 in scoring twice.

He averaged top 20 in points and top 19 in goal scoring.

Not exactly an offensive dynamo when the big boys were putting up big numbers. In his season where he scored 41 goals, 15 of those goals were multi point goals. So if he was filled with heart and soul, did he perhaps leave it at home for 50 games or so?

Only one finish top 10 in points. Really pretty bad considering half his career was no hooking called more often so the bigger guys had more freedom. He was barely an average player of his time according to his stats when compared to others.

He gets so much credit because he played here for such a long time. If Kessel plays here as long, Kessel will have more goals and points easily. Kessel has already beaten his top 10 in goals and points.

One of the most idiotic posts I've ever seen. If that were Clark, people would be GUSHING over his career. An average players doesn't average a PPG in his career.

 

[GreekLeafer]

Enough with people saying "Kessel isn't a leader". He leads the team in points routinely. Case ****ing closed, he is a leader, IN ONE ASPECT, a very important one. And Sundin did that routinely as well. The idea that you're not a heart and soul guy because you don't hit a lot is the dumbest idea that Leafs drones latch onto.

You're trying to tell me guys like Kessel and Lupul don't give a crap when they're getting embarrassed in a game 7? You didn't see their faces at the end of the series? You never heard Kessel in scrums continuously putting all the responsibility of the team's bad season on his own shoulders? You're telling me that Phaneuf the supposed bad captain isn't a leader after he took all responsibility for game 4 and then got a huge goal in game 6?

Kessel is similar to Sundin in the sense that they each didn't/don't have a viable partner to play with. I mean a #1 C for Phil and a #1 winger for Sundin (Mogilny near the end of his career for what, 1 season?) Kadri may well be that piece, but Randy sure as hell wouldn't dare mess with the line for some reason.

 

[The Beyonder]

Can't wait for the 'is Rielly the new Salming' threada

The parallels are there between Kessel and Sundin... both traded in a controversial trade, both scrutinized by the fans and media, both labelled as soft and not players you build around, both surrounded by inferior talent and still put points regardless. Rielly and Salming have nothing in common except that they can both skate and play defence.

 

[ponder]

Sundin was pretty comparable in terms of impact and ability to current Kopitar or Eric Staal, but played at that level for nearly 2 decades straight. I don't think Kessel has as positive an impact as Kopitar or Eric Staal, or as positive as Sundin used to have, but he's not TOO far off. Kessel is a more dynamic offensive talent than Sundin (or comparables like Kopitar or Staal), but big centres impact the game in so many other ways that small wingers don't. IMO he's close to as good as Sundin was, but not quite there, and very few have Sundin's longevity, so chances are Kessel won't have it either. If he can play at this level for another decade, all of it in Toronto, he'll be pretty close to Sundin, but still not quite as good IMO.

 

[diceman934]

Enough with people saying "Kessel isn't a leader". He leads the team in points routinely. Case ****ing closed, he is a leader, IN ONE ASPECT, a very important one. And Sundin did that routinely as well. The idea that you're not a heart and soul guy because you don't hit a lot is the dumbest idea that Leafs drones latch onto.

You're trying to tell me guys like Kessel and Lupul don't give a crap when they're getting embarrassed in a game 7? You didn't see their faces at the end of the series? You never heard Kessel in scrums continuously putting all the responsibility of the team's bad season on his own shoulders? You're telling me that Phaneuf the supposed bad captain isn't a leader after he took all responsibility for game 4 and then got a huge goal in game 6?

Kessel is similar to Sundin in the sense that they each didn't/don't have a viable partner to play with. I mean a #1 C for Phil and a #1 winger for Sundin (Mogilny near the end of his career for what, 1 season?) Kadri may well be that piece, but Randy sure as hell wouldn't dare mess with the line for some reason.

Speaking of drones.....anyone who has the ability to see can watch Kessel pull the chute when faced with a possibility of being checked, or the amount of times he simply turtles when faced with taking a check.....if that is leadership then he has a ton of it. I like Kessel and his offense but his warts are big and to compare him to a Hall of Fame player is a joke....he is no where near there yet and until he is lets keep this nonsense of this board.

 

[Al14]

Speaking of drones.....anyone who has the ability to see can watch Kessel pull the chute when faced with a possibility of being checked, or the amount of times he simply turtles when faced with taking a check.....if that is leadership then he has a ton of it. I like Kessel and his offense but his warts are big and to compare him to a Hall of Fame player is a joke....he is no where near there yet and until he is lets keep this nonsense of this board.

Exactly, Kessel is a wuss when it comes to physical contact! He avoids it at all costs, including losing races for puck possession and surrendering puck possession when contact is threatened.

 

[h2oloopan]

Putting Kessel in the same sentence of Sundin just make me puke, period, I am not even a Kessel hater.

 

[pucci2001]

Kessel is a different type of player but still metaphorically speaking yes he is the new Sundin. He is an elite talent and stuck on a team with a bunch of losers that doesn't have any support for him so the team just can't win. Until MLSE proves otherwise yes he is. My dad and I were just saying this exact thing. I hope to god we go hard after Stastny, do whatever it takes to land him.

If we can't get Stastny do whatever we can to tank and cross our fingers for McDavid and try and move up this draft as far as possible, hopefully top 3 or top 5.

 

[Milan90]

Speaking of drones.....anyone who has the ability to see can watch Kessel pull the chute when faced with a possibility of being checked, or the amount of times he simply turtles when faced with taking a check.....if that is leadership then he has a ton of it. I like Kessel and his offense but his warts are big and to compare him to a Hall of Fame player is a joke....he is no where near there yet and until he is lets keep this nonsense of this board.

That is completely false. When he has the puck, Kessel doesn't shy away from contact whatsoever. It's when he's faced with playing defense and playing along the boards for loose pucks that he doesn't give contact.

 

[Leafspoison*]

The Leafs made the playoffs 7 of the 12 years which is not half....

You also forgot one fact when posting your wrong versions on his Facts.....he was a first ballot HOF player who is 27th all time in NHL scoring.

Just who is putting him at hero status? I do not see anyone doing so....just putting him ahead of Kessel.....

How many?

 

[ponder]

Mats did lead us to the playoffs for 6 straight seasons from 98/99 through 03/04. 5 of those 6 seasons we went to at least the 2nd round, and he took us to the conference finals twice. Sundin was always the best player on those teams by a fairly wide margin. He'd have a rotating cast of 1 or 2 somewhat over the hill stars, a number of OK other players, but really nothing too special in terms of a supporting cast. It's hard to imagine those teams being as good with Kessel instead of Sundin.

Kessel is a more dynamic offensive player, but having a huge centre who can dominate/protect the puck, win physical battles all over the ice, AND bring it offensively just helps you win more games than a talented but small winger who can dangle and snipe, but who avoids contact more than almost any other player in the league. I do think Kessel is close to as good as Sundin, in his own way, but I still say Sundin was better.

 

[The Beyonder]

Mats did lead us to the playoffs for 6 straight seasons from 98/99 through 03/04. 5 of those 6 seasons we went to at least the 2nd round, and he took us to the conference finals twice. Sundin was always the best player on those teams by a fairly wide margin. He'd have a rotating cast of 1 or 2 somewhat over the hill stars, a number of OK other players, but really nothing too special in terms of a supporting cast. It's hard to imagine those teams being as good with Kessel instead of Sundin.

Kessel is a more dynamic offensive player, but having a huge centre who can dominate/protect the puck, win physical battles all over the ice, AND bring it offensively just helps you win more games than a talented but small winger who can dangle and snipe, but who avoids contact more than almost any other player in the league. I do think Kessel is close to as good as Sundin, in his own way, but I still say Sundin was better.

The prelockout leafs were a much better team than this mess of a team, not fair to compare Sundin's teams making the playoffs, since those teams were just plain better. Kessel's been a PPG player, it seems like he's one of the only guys for the past 3 seasons where you can't complain about his performance, you can't say that about any other player on this team and that is the problem with this team.

 

[Patty Lee]

That is completely false. When he has the puck, Kessel doesn't shy away from contact whatsoever. It's when he's faced with playing defense and playing along the boards for loose pucks that he doesn't give contact.

don't waste your time. no reasoning with some

let them have their fun

 

[diceman934]

How many?

Ok I did not count the year he was traded to the Leafs so I will correct it to 8 of 13 again no where near half.

 

[diceman934]

don't waste your time. no reasoning with some

let them have their fun

I agree!

 

[IWD]

Two completely different players. More like the next Mogilny to me. Hopefully he stays healthier, but man was Mogilny a good sniper. Having him on the second line, and Mats on the first was an excellent 1-2 punch of offense.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

Funny you guys keep bringing up the Kessel trade. But no mention of the Sens trading 2 first round picks and a second for Bobby Ryan.

 

[cack]

Putting Kessel in the same sentence of Sundin just make me puke, period, I am not even a Kessel hater.

Oh please, Sundin always disappeared during the playoffs and left the real work for the rest of the team. Some captain he was.

 

[MakeTheIronSing]

This is why we can't have nice things. We even argue about our historic nice things.

 

[LeafsFIO*]

I can't be the only person who thinks "Mogilny and Sundin" when I watch JVR and Kessel go to work in the offensive zone.

There are obviously differences but yes to me Kessel is this generation's Sundin.

Both guys received a lot of flak for, as silly as it sounds, their place of birth. When Sundin came there were fans who hated it cause it was a shift from the days when the Leafs were built around good Canadian boys. When Kessel came in it was "Wilson and Burke's American Conspiracy".

Don't get me wrong, I'll take the Toronto-born kid with equal talents over the American or Swedish kid any day of the week, but I feel blessed to get the chance to have watched Kessel and Sundin play for the Leafs.

(that being said, let Kulemin walk and trade Gunnarsson for another defenceman, I'd love for Toronto to be the only All-North American team )

 

[hockeyfanz*]

Oh please, Sundin always disappeared during the playoffs and left the real work for the rest of the team. Some captain he was.

82 pts in 91 playoff games. Sure does look like he disappeared. 38 goals.

Here are the numbers of the warrior, Wendel Clark..heart and soul guy right?

69 pts in 95 playoff games....37 goals.

Sundin is a bum...no heart..disappeared in the playoffs.

Wendel Clark was a great captain. Heart and Soul of the team. Good Ole Canadian Boy.

Leafs fans are embarrassing.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

How does Kessel not make the players around him better? Every time he gets a new winger (Lupul, JVR) they have career years. Kessel is one of the best shooters, skaters, and passers in the NHL. When we traded for Kessel, no one knew we were going to draft 2nd overall due to lottery luck. Seguin is a great young player, but the Bruins traded him. So basically Eriksson and Hamilton (Rielly, Phaneuf, Franson are all better than him) for Kessel. I'll take that EVERY day of the week. Anyone who watched the Olympics (Kessel lead the tourney in scoring) or any hockey last season knows he is something special. End of story.

 

[BayStBullies]

Is Clarkson the new Clark?

This shouldn't even be joked about. Clarkson can never and will never come near Clark.

 

[Holymakinaw]

How does Kessel not make the players around him better? Every time he gets a new winger (Lupul, JVR) they have career years. Kessel is one of the best shooters, skaters, and passers in the NHL. When we traded for Kessel, no one knew we were going to draft 2nd overall due to lottery luck. Seguin is a great young player, but the Bruins traded him. So basically Eriksson and Hamilton (Rielly, Phaneuf, Franson are all better than him) for Kessel. I'll take that EVERY day of the week. Anyone who watched the Olympics (Kessel lead the tourney in scoring) or any hockey last season knows he is something special. End of story.

You are correct. Kessel, as always, gets an unfair & bum rap. He's not a perfect player by any means, but he's our best player BY FAR and we should appreciate what he's giving us.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Sundin was a player you build a team upon.

Kessel is a player you build a team around.

One carries his team and the other needs others to carry it for him.

Big difference.

Wow. Kessel was the hottest player in the league this past year and the team looked like it would be challenging for the conference lead in points. Then Kessel slowed down and we missed the playoffs because no body else could carry the team like that.

He is a superstar.