Is it winning or money that counts?

[Pookie]

I'd say the Nylander contract ruffled feathers, and the Matthews contract was the slam dunk.
It's all just speculation. I'm not claiming it's anything more than that.

Speculation is all we can do.

I tend to think that the danger of trying to spin a narrative (ie. player needs to take a discount and is greedy) to suit one's position is that you actually convince some people. Including the possibility of convincing some of those who play for your team.

In light of Marleau's rich contract relative to his circumstances, Matthews' deal isn't out of the norm.

But Matthews' (and Nylander's) were the first ones that came after saying the team needed players who wanted to make it all work.

Wouldn't be surprised if not all of that room sides with the players here. I'm sure Shanahan has some backers.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I don't mean to sound rude by saying this but I think you're sincerely misinformed on how players perceive their teammates seeking big pay-days.

I don't think you know anything more than what I know.
All I know is that they all take discounts on Tampa, and they put far more effort in. The leafs were putting a hell of a lot of effort in... until the very moment the dramatic overpayments were signed.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Speculation is all we can do.

I tend to think that the danger of trying to spin a narrative (ie. player needs to take a discount and is greedy) to suit one's position is that you actually convince some people. Including the possibility of convincing some of those who play for your team.

In light of Marleau's rich contract relative to his circumstances, Matthews' deal isn't out of the norm.

But Matthews' (and Nylander's) were the first ones that came after saying the team needed players who wanted to make it all work.

Wouldn't be surprised if not all of that room sides with the players here. I'm sure Shanahan has some backers.

Disagree entirely about the Marleau situation. It's long been the norm that ufa's get overpaid. The leafs had ample cap space for two seasons, and Marleau would fill in a much needed leadership position for a very young team.
That third year though... It still baffles me that Lou handed that out.
Matthews was an rfa. He just signed the highest paid contract in the entire league (when term is considered) after a 69 point career high season. An unprecedented contract.
Unless Matthews takes the leaps Dubas seems to think he will, I think it's quite possible the Matthews contract will go down as one of the worst in post cap nhl history.

 

[IPS]

I don't think you know anything more than what I know.
All I know is that they all take discounts on Tampa, and they put far more effort in. The leafs were putting a hell of a lot of effort in... until the very moment the dramatic overpayments were signed.

So your hypothesis is that Matthews and Nylander seeking big pay-days discouraged the rest of the team to not put as much effort in despite them needing to maximize their own performance to get their own big payday.

Doesn't matter if Kappy and Johnsson hate that Willy and Matthews got major pay-days that may mean their end in Toronto, they need to saddle up and play as hard as they can to get their own payday, whether it be in Toronto or elsewhere.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

So your hypothesis is that Matthews and Nylander seeking big pay-days discouraged the rest of the team to not put as much effort in despite them needing to maximize their own performance to get their own big payday.

Doesn't matter if Kappy and Johnsson hate that Willy and Matthews got major pay-days that may mean their end in Toronto, they need to saddle up and play as hard as they can to get their own payday, whether it be in Toronto or elsewhere.

I'm saying the "good vibes" "team first" mentality we saw the first two months got replaced with a "me first" mentality, resulting in the past 3 months.

 

[Pookie]

Disagree entirely about the Marleau situation. It's long been the norm that ufa's get overpaid. The leafs had ample cap space for two seasons, and Marleau would fill in a much needed leadership position for a very young team.
That third year though... It still baffles me that Lou handed that out.
Matthews was an rfa. He just signed the highest paid contract in the entire league (when term is considered) after a 69 point career high season. An unprecedented contract.
Unless Matthews takes the leaps Dubas seems to think he will, I think it's quite possible the Matthews contract will go down as one of the worst in post cap nhl history.

But while UFAs get overpaid, it’s not an issue for the younger guys until Shanahan asks them to take a discount.

Why us?

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Now let's not start shoehorning people into boxes based on their arguments. First step towards a breakdown in civility. Breathe.

At no point did Matthews' agents or Dubas say that. Some media types speculated that an 8-year deal would have been in the $13.5M range, but that hasn't been corroborated by any of the parties involved in the negotiations, so it would be best if you stopped saying that as if it's fact.

You also didn't address my concerns with you saying Matthews conspired with Nylander on his hold-out. What evidence is there of that?

I found the source of the $14M number...I was wrong..it was "close to $14M" according to Elliotte Friedman of SN:

Maybe Toronto should have snared Matthews before the season at $12 million/year. Matthews was willing to go the maximum term, and the Maple Leafs certainly didn’t object, but when he busted out to that huge start, the number got too high — probably close to $14 million. Toronto wants to make multiple runs at greatness, and that number would crush the roster.

31 Thoughts: Auston Matthews extension a game changer for NHL - Sportsnet.ca

Happy now?

 

[IPS]

But while UFAs get overpaid, it’s not an issue for the younger guys until Shanahan asks them to take a discount.

Why us?

I'm still baffled to this day by how little self-awareness Shanny has by spouting something like that.

I'm saying the "good vibes" "team first" mentality we saw the first two months got replaced with a "me first" mentality, resulting in the past 3 months.

The "good vibes" and "team first" mentality will always take the backseat to players seeking as much money as possible to provide the best life for their families.

 

[18leafsfan18]

Disagree entirely about the Marleau situation. It's long been the norm that ufa's get overpaid. The leafs had ample cap space for two seasons, and Marleau would fill in a much needed leadership position for a very young team.
That third year though... It still baffles me that Lou handed that out.
Matthews was an rfa. He just signed the highest paid contract in the entire league (when term is considered) after a 69 point career high season. An unprecedented contract.
Unless Matthews takes the leaps Dubas seems to think he will, I think it's quite possible the Matthews contract will go down as one of the worst in post cap nhl history.

Is this a new kind of math where you just grab numbers from nowhere and jam them together ?

How is he the highest paid player when term is considered ?

 

[18leafsfan18]

I'm saying the "good vibes" "team first" mentality we saw the first two months got replaced with a "me first" mentality, resulting in the past 3 months.

This is closer to a conspiracy theory then making sense of why the team hasn't played well.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Is this a new kind of math where you just grab numbers from nowhere and jam them together ?

How is he the highest paid player when term is considered ?

11.6 x 5 years is higher than 12.5 over 8 years.
Matthews is the highest paid player in the league.

 

[I Believe]

Contracts are going up at the same rate as our houses it seems like.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

This is closer to a conspiracy theory then making sense of why the team hasn't played well.

Yeah, it's speculation. That's all we can do. Why do you think the leafs are playing like they don't even care spanning the past couple months and most especially the past 2 weeks?

The dramatic overpayments of Nylander and Matthews doesn't come out of mlse's pockets. They were going to pay to the cap ceiling regardless. It comes out of the pockets of their teammates, some of whom are now going to have to be traded due to the dramatic overpayments. It destroyed the "good vibes" culture that this team was starting to develop.

 

[18leafsfan18]

11.6 x 5 years is higher than 12.5 over 8 years.
Matthews is the highest paid player in the league.

Maybe its the decimal point this is confusing you.

11.6 is less then 12.5. Because 11 comes before 12 when counting

 

[HOF Paul Henderson]

Tavares, Nylander, Matthews, and soon Marner will have very healthy salaries playing for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Every single one of them could live quite comfortably at half the salaries that they have, and will negotiate for.

Certainly, with proper financial planning and investment, even their families would likely become comfortable for generations with lesser salaries than those being given to these athletes recently.

I think this is true for dozens of other players around the league including McDavid, Tavares, Toews, Kane, and Eichel etc.

Now, because Nyalnder, Matthews, and soon Marner, have chosen to maximize their salary, and with the signing of Tavares, the Leafs will have to trade, or, let some very talented players walk in free agency. Losing this talent reduces the ability for the team to win a Stanley Cup in the short and long term IMHO.

The idea that winning is what really matters, and that the money is a nice bonus, is a total load of bunk IMHO. I'm not buying that winning the Cup comes first and foremost in the minds of any of these greedy young kids.

Money is everything, winning the Stanley Cup is just a very minor consideration now.

They are professional athletes. To become what they are, you have to have a real deep sense of comptetitiveness and a drive to prove yourself. You just don’t make it without a mind like that.

These guys let their managers deal with contracts because their managers tell them they can win and also be financially secure. They believe them because it’s what they want to believe.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Maybe its the decimal point this is confusing you.

11.6 is less then 12.5. Because 11 comes before 12 when counting

Ah... another one who doesn't understand the importance of term when it comes to determining contract value.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but 5 is substantially less than 8 as well, right?

 

[18leafsfan18]

Yeah, it's speculation. That's all we can do. Why do you think the leafs are playing like they don't even care spanning the past couple months and most especially the past 2 weeks?

The dramatic overpayments of Nylander and Matthews doesn't come out of mlse's pockets. They were going to pay to the cap ceiling regardless. It comes out of the pockets of their teammates, some of whom are now going to have to be traded due to the dramatic overpayments. It destroyed the "good vibes" culture that this team was starting to develop.

You are entitled to your opinion.

To me this opinion is about as believable as the flat earth theories.

(I hope I didn't just open a can of worms with that).

 

[18leafsfan18]

Ah... another one who doesn't understand the importance of term when it comes to determining contract value.
Correct me if I'm wrong... but 5 is substantially less than 8 as well, right?

I hope you are talking about cap hit, because who cares about anything else, but your wrong about actual dollars as well.

You said he is the highest paid player. He is not. Pretty simple. Show the math that shows he is paid higher.

 

[hfman]

[QUOTE="Al14, post: 158280023, member: 57247"

Now, because Nyalnder, Matthews, and soon Marner, have chosen to maximize their salary, and with the signing of Tavares, the Leafs will have to trade, or, let some very talented players walk in free agency. Losing this talent reduces the ability for the team to win a Stanley Cup in the short and long term IMHO.

[/QUOTE]


funny, I could have sworn I've read this 408 times already

 

[CharaBadSenyshynGawd]

It probably differs from player to player. It’s easy to rag on a guy for taking a big contract on a bad team but it’s about knowing your worth as well.

There’s no doubt some (most) players that are going to take the biggest contract they’re offered, obviously taking taxes and such into account. I just try to put myself in their position. If I’m fixing computers, I have 2 job offers on the table. One from Apple for 100k a year. Huge company, lots of little benefits like a nice lounge for break, a beautiful campus, etc. The other from a low level company offering 150k a year, no frills, just do the job and go home. I feel like most people are taking the money. To its core, teams are a business that pays its employees. Could Tavares survive on 5 mil? Could he survive on half a mil? Absolutely. But telling people to take less than they’re offered is crazy.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You are entitled to your opinion.

To me this opinion is about as believable as the flat earth theories.

(I hope I didn't just open a can of worms with that).

What’s your opinion on why the leafs are playing like they dont care?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I hope you are talking about cap hit, because who cares about anything else, but your wrong about actual dollars as well.

You said he is the highest paid player. He is not. Pretty simple. Show the math that shows he is paid higher.

I said he’s the highest paid player once term is considered in the equation. Yes, if you ignore term (which would just be a silly thing to do), he is the 2nd highest paid player.

 

[18leafsfan18]

I said he’s the highest paid player once term is considered in the equation. Yes, if you ignore term (which would just be a silly thing to do), he is the 2nd highest paid player.

If you check % of cap when signed he is not in the top 5 (McDavid, Toews, Kane, Ovi, Malkin) on par with about 4 or 5 more.

Perfect example of when you nitpick your so called "facts" you can make anything look bad.

Funny how you get mad when their isn't consistency, but you nitpick to make your point.

 

[18leafsfan18]

What’s your opinion on why the leafs are playing like they dont care?

I'm not sure what the issue is.

Maybe the season is wearing on them
Maybe the goalies aren't making those extra 2 or 3 saves
Maybe 2 of the top 4 D are injured

You can't prove they don't care in any way, why because they don't hit ? give me a break.

Good thing is they have a lot of professionals to figure it out.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

If you check % of cap when signed he is not in the top 5 (McDavid, Toews, Kane, Ovi, Malkin) on par with about 4 or 5 more.

Perfect example of when you nitpick your so called "facts" you can make anything look bad.

Funny how you get mad when their isn't consistency, but you nitpick to make your point.

Other than McDavid (who scored 100 points before signing his contract, not (lol) 69), those are all ufa contracts. A complete f***ing joke.

Regardless, I thought 11.6 is higher than 9.5 (ovy, Malkin)? And 10.5 (toews, Kane)? Now that's not what matters? How consistent of you.

You're just spinning everything all around to try and rationalize that abomination of a contract.