Is it time for Lou to get his walking papers

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

lol at every Devils fan that really wants Lou gone. I think that he made his fare share of questionable decisions, but anyone in his situation [under a microscope] would have there baggage as well. Lou (+Marty) is NJD, NJD is Lou. Maybe its time for a "changing of the guards" in this organization, but not many of us on this board are qualified to make that decision. I am eternally grateful to Lou and trust him over any other hockey mind, regardless of his policy's, draft picks or recent signings.

If we would've had any other Gm for the past 5 years, I can garantee you know he'd be in a lineup, collecting his welfare paycheck. We are about to lose a 1st round that is looking more and more like a top #5 pick, we probably won't make the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years, we have THE oldest lineup in the entire NHL, our prospects are getting shafted cause we signed a bunch of misfits in order to patch a leaking boat and we keep losing pending UFA's, UFA's that are no less then the heart and soul of our club, for free.

That type of asset management shouldn't be acceptable from anyone, let alone a HOF'er like Lou. Living off of a track record doesn't do much for the team, the owners or the fans and just extends the pain.

 

[billingtons ghost]

If we would've had any other Gm for the past 5 years, I can garantee you know he'd be in a lineup, collecting his welfare paycheck. We are about to lose a 1st round that is looking more and more like a top #5 pick, we probably won't make the playoffs for the 4th time in 5 years, we have THE oldest lineup in the entire NHL, our prospects are getting shafted cause we signed a bunch of misfits in order to patch a leaking boat and we keep losing pending UFA's, UFA's that are no less then the heart and soul of our club, for free.

That type of asset management shouldn't be acceptable from anyone, let alone a HOF'er like Lou. Living off of a track record doesn't do much for the team, the owners or the fans and just extends the pain.

what a bunch of spoiled little biyatches we are.

Ask Toronto when the last time they had anything as exciting as 'Henrique it's over!'

1967?

How about MTL? 1993?

Rags waited 54 years before buying Edmonton wholesale.

How many teams are just gunning to actually get to the playoffs for the first time in years.

Feel free to grab some perspective from somewhere.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Someone should really start a sticky thread, listing all transactions and moves that Lou has ever made (or not made) over the past 15 years, and rating them successes or failures.

I'm sure we could find alot of 'He could have drafted xxxx' but aside from that, I don't see any trades he's made that have sucked. He's overpaid for a few free agents, but not Scott Gomez style...

I still don't see what he could have done this summer to make this team better on paper other than get a whip and hit Zajac with it.

Edit: I'll amend that for 'find a taker for Volch and Sal to clear space for the kid defensemen'... but I think that would have taken a miracle.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

this.

what world do these people live in that everything they want grows on trees?

Not one person here has actually mentioned what moves they would have made differently this offseason - other than the Clowe contract.

If that's the case, then you've been living in a cave for the past 5 years+.

I've been talking about our mediocre blueline for the past 7 years now, if not more. I got the same stupid comment each and every time wich was... "we were 2 wins from lifting the Cup, what more do you want?".

Going to the cup Finals was nothing short of a fluke and it certainly didn't have anything to do with our cast of "no names" on our blueline. Bryce Salvador was on LSD for our entire cup run and everyone with a half of brain would've realised that what he did was nothing short of a miracle and expecting the same type of production was wishfull thinking at best. What does Lou do right after we got bounced... signs a "average" d-man to a 3 year deal when we had several youngsters who were waiting for a shot to crack the team. In that same time frame, we managed to lose a 22 year old "potential" threw the waiver wire for the good of the team? Please, give me a break.

I took a quick look at the players that got picked after Adam Larsson in the 2011 draft and I can firmly say that we probably have the best prospect, playing on the worst team when it comes to icing their top #6 d-men and yet he's still getting the shaft as if we had better options to our disposal. Dougie Hamilton is on a cup contending team and can learn at a slower pace since their blueline is pretty solid and Chara can mentor him properly. Jonas Brodin is getting over 25 minutes per game, 1st pairing PP duties and is being utilised like he's a 10 year veteran and doing real well with all the heavy workload he's getting ATM in Minny. He's also playing with a stud d-man in Ryan Suter, who's making it real easy for him to adapt to the speed and skill of the NHL. There's even Ryan Murphy who's getting his fair share of ice time in Carolina and he's also working their #1 PP unit and from what I've seen from Canes fans, he's doing real well and isn't the black hole everyone thaught he'd be in his own zone.

Our Gm has done a horrible job when it comes to our current blueline and a even worst job when it comes to creating spots for his prospects that are more then ready to pick up the slack for players like Salvador, Harrold and #28.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Going to the cup Finals was nothing short of a fluke

Ok, ok, you win, I can't debate anything here after that one because clearly you've got a handle on how 7 game playoff series in the NHL work.

 

[billingtons ghost]

Didn't he go out and get Tallinder for the express purpose of having him mentor Larsson like he did Myers? How'd that work? Was it on Lou that it didn't, or Larsson, or the coaching staff?

I'll agree that a one or two year deal for Sal would have been nice to show loyalty instead of a 3-year deal.

Losing Urbom absolutely was a terrible thing - I have no idea whose input kept Harrold from being waived.

 

[Tundra]

If that's the case, then you've been living in a cave for the past 5 years+.

I've been talking about our mediocre blueline for the past 7 years now, if not more. I got the same stupid comment each and every time wich was... "we were 2 wins from lifting the Cup, what more do you want?".

Going to the cup Finals was nothing short of a fluke and it certainly didn't have anything to do with our cast of "no names" on our blueline. Bryce Salvador was on LSD for our entire cup run and everyone with a half of brain would've realised that what he did was nothing short of a miracle and expecting the same type of production was wishfull thinking at best. What does Lou do right after we got bounced... signs a "average" d-man to a 3 year deal when we had several youngsters who were waiting for a shot to crack the team. In that same time frame, we managed to lose a 22 year old "potential" threw the waiver wire for the good of the team? Please, give me a break.

I took a quick look at the players that got picked after Adam Larsson in the 2011 draft and I can firmly say that we probably have the best prospect, playing on the worst team when it comes to icing their top #6 d-men and yet he's still getting the shaft as if we had better options to our disposal. Dougie Hamilton is on a cup contending team and can learn at a slower pace since their blueline is pretty solid and Chara can mentor him properly. Jonas Brodin is getting over 25 minutes per game, 1st pairing PP duties and is being utilised like he's a 10 year veteran and doing real well with all the heavy workload he's getting ATM in Minny. He's also playing with a stud d-man in Ryan Suter, who's making it real easy for him to adapt to the speed and skill of the NHL. There's even Ryan Murphy who's getting his fair share of ice time in Carolina and he's also working their #1 PP unit and from what I've seen from Canes fans, he's doing real well and isn't the black hole everyone thaught he'd be in his own zone.

Our Gm has done a horrible job when it comes to our current blueline and a even worst job when it comes to creating spots for his prospects that are more then ready to pick up the slack for players like Salvador, Harrold and #28.

I don't think the cup run was a fluke but that team no longer exists. The key pieces are gone and so has the fantastic chemistry. Now we have our aging vets combined with older FAs that will lead to nowhere. There is no discernible plan.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

Ok, ok, you win, I can't debate anything here after that one because clearly you've got a handle on how 7 game playoff series in the NHL work.

The Carolina Hurricanes faced off against the Edmonton Oilers for the Stanley Cup. Did they dominate the followings years after both teams reached the finals? That's what I thought.

Going to the Cup Finals is a direct result of bounces going your way, landing a solid matchup in each of the first 3 rounds and outstanding goaltending.

Thinking that we'd be "king of the mountain" year after year just because we managed to land a spot in the Finals was nothing short of stupid and that thinking will most probably cost us a top #5 pick in the upcoming draft.

 

[Tundra]

as I said yesterday, this type of thinking is what gets organizations into trouble.

This almost childlike belief that Lou will magically pull a bright white rabbit from that raggedy top hat is dangerous. I agree. Lou has had trouble navigating through the turbulent waters of the modern salary cap era. I think it's time to for him to retire and have his name hoisted to the rafters of the Rock.

 

[NJDevs26]

The Carolina Hurricanes faced off against the Edmonton Oilers for the Stanley Cup. Did they dominate the followings years after both teams reached the finals? That's what I thought.

Going to the Cup Finals is a direct result of bounces going your way, landing a solid matchup in each of the first 3 rounds and outstanding goaltending.

Thinking that we'd be "king of the mountain" year after year just because we managed to land a spot in the Finals was nothing short of stupid and that thinking will most probably cost us a top #5 pick in the upcoming draft.

So when Pittsburgh and Detroit made the Finals two years in a row that was 'luck'? Or when the Hawks won two Cups in four years, or the Bruins won one and made it to another Finals? Or is it only luck when it fits a certain narrative?

2006 was a fluky year all around. You can't use anything from that season to justify an overall viewpoint. 2012, we'll never know if we would have been 'king of the mountain' again with that same team because the team changed dramatically each of the last two offseasons. The two players we were building the next ten years around both left.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

I don't think the Finals run was a fluke. They had the best forechecking system in the league over the final 3 months once they got enough horses. Florida was probably the only team in the East who could handle us because there speed gave the defense nightmares. They had our number all year long. I do think however, that the finals run did mask a lot of the problems we've been having, mainly on defense. The backcheking of Parise covered up a lot of there mistakes.

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

So when Pittsburgh and Detroit made the Finals two years in a row that was 'luck'? Or when the Hawks won two Cups in four years, or the Bruins won one and made it to another Finals? Or is it only luck when it fits a certain narrative?

2006 was a fluky year all around. You can't use anything from that season to justify an overall viewpoint. 2012, we'll never know if we would have been 'king of the mountain' again with that same team because the team changed dramatically each of the last two offseasons. The two players we were building the next ten years around both left.

Comparing apples with oranges here.

The teams you mentioned are all teams that have a nucleons of young players mixed in with all-star veterans and then you have the Pens who are just loaded based on the tank jobs they've done in the past.

When you build a team, you can't always look at the present. You have to "gage" the future as well. Lou isn't dumb enough to think that Parise was actually going to resign when he jerked him a entire summer and came away with the worst possible outcome possible. We lost one of the most important pieces when it comes to type of system DeBoer is known to run. We then proceeded to replace that player with a bunch of waiver pickups. Meanwhile, our over achieving blueline gave management the illusion that they were good enough as is... In fact, we even rewarded Salvador with a absurd contract for being the player we never knew and would never see again.

With that said, our prospect pool was and is still weak, meaning there wasn't a stud in the making that would ultimately take over for Parise but we did have some solid up and coming prospects that could've taken over Salvador's role. Add to that we had a aging netminder and no one to replace him and voila, you have a team that wasn't going to repeat anytime soon, no youngsters to take over offensively and no space for the actual assets we do have in Albany defensively.

That's how I saw things back then and that's how I things today.

 

[billingtons ghost]

I don't think the Finals run was a fluke. They had the best forechecking system in the league over the final 3 months once they got enough horses. Florida was probably the only team in the East who could handle us because there speed gave the defense nightmares. They had our number all year long. I do think however, that the finals run did mask a lot of the problems we've been having, mainly on defense. The backcheking of Parise covered up a lot of there mistakes.

this. Going into the next year you are getting a healthy zajac back on top of having two of the league's leading scorers on the wings and a very solid four lines playing a good system that fit them well. Did it mask a weaker D corps? Yep.

You had a core of young players entering their prime that could maybe play for your team for the next 10 years.

You had Larsson and a boatload of D prospects potentially coming to step into the ranks.

I'm not going to say that Lou rewarding Sal's loyalty and play wasn't over the top.
I'm not going to say that it doesn't pay to break up a cup team because the Hawks did a nice job of reloading.

Did it need to be blown up exactly because it was a complete fluke, and was Lou a fool for not doing so? That's lunacy.

 

[The 29th Pick]

Didn't he go out and get Tallinder for the express purpose of having him mentor Larsson like he did Myers? How'd that work? Was it on Lou that it didn't, or Larsson, or the coaching staff?

I'll agree that a one or two year deal for Sal would have been nice to show loyalty instead of a 3-year deal.

Losing Urbom absolutely was a terrible thing - I have no idea whose input kept Harrold from being waived.

hmmn Lou signed Tallinder in 2010 and Larsson was drafted in 2011, how did Lou know a year ahead of time we'd be drafting Larsson

 

[DEVILS ALL THE WAY*]

hmmn Lou signed Tallinder in 2010 and Larsson was drafted in 2011, how did Lou know a year ahead of time we'd be drafting Larsson

Cause Lou is god and god knows all.

 

[Lateralous]

Just like Marty, Lou still has flashes of brilliance (Kovy and Schneider trades and to a lesser extent the Zidlicky and Poni aquisitions to complete the roster in '12) that remind people of the glory days but the consistency and overall body of work has been average to below average. Unfortunately in Lou's case, it's been almost a decade. Marty pretty much hid how flawed those 2005-08 teams were, especially on the back end.

 

[SeidoN]

we are paying back for 2 decades of success. every team goes through a rough patch where rebuilding/retooling is required, and only a fraction of them have the period of success behind it that we do

 

[ThePSEGPowerPoster]

I can't get behind the notion that Lou is suddenly average to below average. Is he perfect? No, no one is perfect. It's been discussed ad nauseum how he had no control over Zach and Kovy leaving.

Everyone loved his moves as a whole this off-season. Suddenly we suck and it's Lou's fault?

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I can't get behind the notion that Lou is suddenly average to below average. Is he perfect? No, no one is perfect. It's been discussed ad nauseum how he had no control over Zach and Kovy leaving.

Everyone loved his moves as a whole this off-season. Suddenly we suck and it's Lou's fault?

his moves this offseason were fine. his policies of never discussing re-signing guys during the year has killed us.

but he has been pretty bad recently. He has not been good post lockout overall. the game has seemingly passed him by.

 

[BuiltLikeAnOx]

Deboer needs to go. Lou should stay we need a coach that has a temper when things go bad

 

[Tundra]

I can't get behind the notion that Lou is suddenly average to below average. Is he perfect? No, no one is perfect. It's been discussed ad nauseum how he had no control over Zach and Kovy leaving.

Everyone loved his moves as a whole this off-season. Suddenly we suck and it's Lou's fault?

It's largely poor scouting and development combined with questionable FA acquisitions. Lou has to be aware that he needs to have homegrown resources maturing to eventually replace his core pieces (i.e. Parise, Clarkson) since that is the typical journey of Devil players who reach free agency. They typically bolt (see Rafalski, Neidermayer, etc.). This organization has had no discernible plan B in place and this season is testament to that.

 

[SeidoN]

ill say for one thing though, I hope this coming years draft will be forward heavy, if not full.

Boucher is still a question mark, Kujawinski is a questionable choice, Bell is the definition of boom or bust and everything else is meh

offensive retool HAS to be the focus in my opinion

 

[BuiltLikeAnOx]

i think signing clowe and jagr was a mistake they are both so slow. this team needs speed like the sharks

 

[SeidoN]

i think signing clowe and jagr was a mistake they are both so slow. this team needs speed like the sharks

which fast FA's were available?

 

[Tundra]

i think signing clowe and jagr was a mistake they are both so slow. this team needs speed like the sharks

Jagr isn't that big of a deal due to the term. However, the Clowe deal is 5 years and nearly unmovable.