Is Dion Phaneuf done?

[Frankie]

Firstly, who do you suggest should fill Dion Phaneuf's gaping hole when we trade him for scraps?

Phaneuf matches up against the oppositions top line at ES/PP/PK with the ability to post offensive numbers while shutting them down. Furthermore, he is a consistently dominant physical force and a shot leader among defenseman. Last season he was a top pairing defenseman was in 10th TOI/G, 6th in goals, 12th in points, 7th in hits..etc.

Furthermore, who does Dion Phaneuf play with? Over the past 2 seasons it's Carl Gunnarsson and Mike Kostka. So a 20pt two-way defenseman and a career-AHLer.
It is widely accepted that we are lacking one top pairing defenseman. So Frankie, you suggest that we should resolve our issue of having too few top pairing defenseman by trading away our top defenseman?

please show me where i said we should trade phaneuf for scraps.

he doesn't play with an all-star defenceman. i don't buy that as an excuse for poor play or a reason for his obvious deficiencies.

To address the point in your post, of course hockey isn't about stat watching, but by mentioning the likes of Steven Stamkos, John Tavares, Eric Staal, Rich Nash..etc I was illustrating that in the sport of hockey individuals can very rarely single-handedly carry their teams to the promised land. Individual players can have outstanding seasons (see Steven Stamkos 11/12 campaign) but fail to achieve substantial team success.

Just look at the playoff record of the post-lockout Hart winners:
2005–06 Joe Thornton Boston Bruins/San Jose Sharks
2006–07 Sidney Crosby Pittsburgh Penguins
2007–08 Alexander Ovechkin Washington Capitals
2008–09 Alexander Ovechkin Washington Capitals
2009–10 Henrik Sedin Vancouver Canucks
2010–11 Corey Perry Anaheim Ducks
2011–12 Evgeni Malkin Pittsburgh Penguins

The farthest any of these teams managed to get in their respective player's Hart winning season was the 2nd round and this included 4 of 7 1st round eliminations [including Crosby (06-07), Ovechkin (07-08), Perry (10-11), Malkin (11-12)]. This is with the absolute #1 best player playing on their team no less.

yes, players can have great seasons and their team still not do very well. so what? nobody expects dion phaneuf to single-handedly win the stanley cup.

in order for phaneuf to be successful in toronto, he has to play a huge part in the team winning. he is not separate from the team. he's part of it. if the team doesn't win, he has been a failure. he's part of the team's failure. if the team wins, he's part of that success.

Should they too be blamed for their team's failure to succeed as well?

yes, they are part of that failure. they are members of the team.

 

[The Apologist]

In Stamkos and Tavares you are talking about 2 of the best centers in the game.

In Nugent-Hopkins you are talking about one of the best young players in the game.

Nash is a superstar. Period.

Does Dion Phaneuf fall into any of those categories?

Is he one of the best Dmen in the league? Not defensively.

Does he put up great offensive numbers? Not that I know of.

You do realize that by comparing Dion to some of the best players in the game, you've just made my argument for me, right ?



He's not an elite Dman. He's not a number 1 guy. He needs help.

A) never applaud your own arguments, it's just sad.

B) wth do you consider great offensive numbers?

C) He is absolutely a number one d, without question. Elite? Maybe not.

Some fans just don't get it. There are not 30 Crosbys in the NHL. There are not 30 Lidstroms. No team has one of each on their team. If you keep expecting every player on the team to be them, you're gonna be disappointed and often.

And Rick Nash is not a superstar.

 

[The Apologist]

please show me where i said we should trade phaneuf for scraps.

he doesn't play with an all-star defenceman. i don't buy that as an excuse for poor play or a reason for his obvious deficiencies.


yes, players can have great seasons and their team still not do very well. so what? nobody expects dion phaneuf to single-handedly win the stanley cup.

in order for phaneuf to be successful in toronto, he has to play a huge part in the team winning. he is not separate from the team. he's part of it. if the team doesn't win, he has been a failure. he's part of the team's failure. if the team wins, he's part of that success.


yes, they are part of that failure. they are members of the team.

Every player has obvious deficiencies. See post above.

 

[bobg1]

nice try but if you half one you need half the other

and only for Ian Whites moustache

What antics? He took a shot and Lupul got hit in the arm. Simple as that.

 

[Sokil]

Phaneuf and Komisarek would be the ideal pairing. Komisarek for his rock stead and smart defensive play. And Phaneuf to roam and use his offensive skills to score.

 

[Griffski]

A) never applaud your own arguments, it's just sad.

B) wth do you consider great offensive numbers?

C) He is absolutely a number one d, without question. Elite? Maybe not.

Some fans just don't get it. There are not 30 Crosbys in the NHL. There are not 30 Lidstroms. No team has one of each on their team. If you keep expecting every player on the team to be them, you're gonna be disappointed and often.

And Rick Nash is not a superstar.

There isn't 30 lidstroms, but I could name 30 defenseman in the NHL right now I'd rather be playing the leafs top minutes. Do the leafs have a better option right now? No. Should the leafs be looking for an upgrade from dion? For sure.

 

[Ankka]

I don't like Phaneuf's work ethic. Every game you can see Phaneuf out of position, standing still, no sense of urgency and all his decisions with puck are slow. Also on the power play there is always the extra seconds with the puck he has to take so that the PK can catch up.

 

[MajorityRules*]

A lot of people in here are confusing their personal feelings of Phaneuf with his abilities. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not a #1 Dman. Pretty odd when he finishes 6th in scoring for defenseman and someone uses the excuse he doesn't produce enough.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

A lot of people in here are confusing their personal feelings of Phaneuf with his abilities. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not a #1 Dman. Pretty odd when he finishes 6th in scoring for defenseman and someone uses the excuse he doesn't produce enough.

He produced just fine last season offensively. 9th in scoring (tied 6th but with more games then the others) and 12th in points among d-man last season.

He was on pace for similar numbers the season before that as well.

 

[The Apologist]

There isn't 30 lidstroms, but I could name 30 defenseman in the NHL right now I'd rather be playing the leafs top minutes. Do the leafs have a better option right now? No. Should the leafs be looking for an upgrade from dion? For sure.

30 you'd rather have or 30 better than Phaneuf? If you can upgrade of course you do it, but there are only about 10 better and I doubt they're available.

 

[The Apologist]

A lot of people in here are confusing their personal feelings of Phaneuf with his abilities. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean he's not a #1 Dman. Pretty odd when he finishes 6th in scoring for defenseman and someone uses the excuse he doesn't produce enough.

Well said.

 

[Frankie]

Every player has obvious deficiencies. See post above.

yeah, the vast majority do for sure. so what?

does that mean we shouldn't talk about phaneuf's deficiencies? we shouldn't talk about how we'd like to see him play better, about how we know he can play better? he's the captain, he's an integral part of the team. what's the problem with pointing out and discussing the quality of his play?

 

[Faltorvo]

30 you'd rather have or 30 better than Phaneuf? If you can upgrade of course you do it, but there are only about 10 better and I doubt they're available.

Only about 10 HAHAHA!! you should really stop trying to prove the first part of your user handle as being accurate, mate.

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Keith
Doughty
Markov
Letang
Suter
Pietrangelo
Enstrom
Yandle
Boyle
Seabrook
Byfuglien
Campbell

Just to name a few.

 

[The Apologist]

yeah, the vast majority do for sure. so what?

does that mean we shouldn't talk about phaneuf's deficiencies? we shouldn't talk about how we'd like to see him play better, about how we know he can play better? he's the captain, he's an integral part of the team. what's the problem with pointing out and discussing the quality of his play?

Absolutely nothing wrong with discussing it. Pretending that everyone out there is somehow better while ignoring theirs is the problem. The grass is always greener eh?

 

[The Apologist]

Only about 10 HAHAHA!! you should really stop trying to prove the first part of your user handle as being accurate, mate.

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Keith
Doughty
Markov
Letang
Suter
Pietrangelo
Enstrom
Yandle
Boyle
Seabrook
Byfuglien
Campbell

Just to name a few.

Very creative play on the name, well done. Then to follow it up with this.... Campbell really? Buff? Markov? Lol, he must be incredible for the 10 games a year he plays. Back to bed my friend.

 

[buntek]

I'll just say this, great players make those around him better.

 

[Faltorvo]

Very creative play on the name, well done. Then to follow it up with this.... Campbell really? Buff? Markov? Lol, he must be incredible for the 10 games a year he plays. Back to bed my friend.

The debate is about , who the better player is, not injury history.

I mean if that was a topic a guy like Lups should be a target, no?

Why a lol at Camp , Buff?

Dion is a O D with with a feeble defensive game, much like those 2.

Over the last couple of seasons they have out produced Dion at what they are supposed to be good at, no?.

106 points for Buff the last 2 seasons for that franchise and he hits like a truck and you don't consider him on par or better then Dion?.

 

[The Podium]

Only about 10 HAHAHA!! you should really stop trying to prove the first part of your user handle as being accurate, mate.

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Keith
Doughty
Markov
Letang
Suter
Pietrangelo
Enstrom
Yandle
Boyle
Seabrook
Byfuglien
Campbell

Just to name a few.

10 was stretching it but if you would really have Yandle, Byfuglien and Campbell over Phaneuf then you better hope you have an incredible DFD to partner with them. They are the least relied up defensively #1D. OF Campbells ~26 minutes per game, ~ 1 is PK IIRC If you think Dion has a bad defensive game, these guys are infinitely worse. So much so that Byfulien is barely wanted by Jets fans and Yandle is expendable by Yote fans. Even Markov is over the hill.

 

[Faltorvo]

10 was stretching it but if you would really have Yandle, Byfuglien and Campbell over Phaneuf then you better hope you have an incredible DFD to partner with them. They are the least relied up defensively #1D. OF Campbells ~26 minutes per game, ~ 1 is PK IIRC

I'd rank Dions D ability right with those names listed, yes.

 

[ScottyHolden]

Only about 10 HAHAHA!! you should really stop trying to prove the first part of your user handle as being accurate, mate.

Karlsson
Chara
Weber
Keith
Doughty
Markov
Letang
Suter
Pietrangelo
Enstrom
Yandle
Boyle
Seabrook
Byfuglien
Campbell

Just to name a few.

Brutal... Grass is always greener to some of you guys. Phaneuf is arguably better than half of that list.


.... lol markov

 

[The Podium]

I'd rank Dions D ability right with those names listed, yes.

If i wasnt mid-lecture id disprove this very easily. Pull up the campbell vs. Phaneuf thread i did it there.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I don't like Phaneuf's work ethic. Every game you can see Phaneuf out of position, standing still, no sense of urgency and all his decisions with puck are slow. Also on the power play there is always the extra seconds with the puck he has to take so that the PK can catch up.

Thats just how he tempered his game. He realllllly needs to slow things down so that his brain can catch up with the play.

I don't see a #1 d-man. I see a guy that could play on the top-pairing in the perfect situation but that doesn't make you a #1. A #1 makes players around him better, Dion needs players to compliment him so that his deficiencies are masked. If the Leafs slide this season I don't see the urgency to keep him. Sure someone inferior will have to take up his minutes but if the season were a lost cause already than what's the hang-up?

 

[Faltorvo]

Brutal... Grass is always greener to some of you guys. Phaneuf is better than half of that list.


.... lol markov

Lol Markov?

When healthy he is one of the best D in the league.

 

[The Podium]

Lol Markov?

When healthy he is one of the best D in the league.

Hes healthy now, he sucks so far. Guys pushing 40 hes done.

 

[charliolemieux]

There isn't 30 lidstroms, but I could name 30 defenseman in the NHL right now I'd rather be playing the leafs top minutes. Do the leafs have a better option right now? No. Should the leafs be looking for an upgrade from dion? For sure.

Let's see the list.