Prospect Info: In the System IX (Ads and Prospects)

[Flgatorguy87]

who would you say has been the most pleasant surprise among the preds prospects this year?

Parsinnen is hard to beat just based on the level to which he's exceeded expectations.

Jeannot is in that category as well.

 

[triggrman]

who would you say has been the most pleasant surprise among the preds prospects this year?

Tolvanen followed by Carrier if we're talking coming into the season.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Tolvanen followed by Carrier if we're talking coming into the season.

Yeah, I think Tolvanen being a) a regular in our lineup, and b) even a regular in Calder Trophy conversations really takes the cake. You can't overlook the massive value he has brought to our team, especially at a time when we were maybe slightly leaning towards writing him off.

Not to overlook that Jeannot has moved from an AHL-depth-grinder into an "AHL PF Star" and that Parssinen has killed the Finnish league relative to his age... those are both FANTASTIC progressions as well. But end of the day, they could still give us nothing whatsoever at the NHL level, who knows. Tolvanen becoming a fixture as a top-6 NHLer is a quantum leap above that.

Now Carrier... well, he's kind of dancing on the edge to me still. That was a fantastic cameo he gave us. I would love to latch onto believing it's "real" that he could be a valid partner to Ekholm on a 2nd pair for us. That's for sure what it looked like. But it's still ultimately a small sample.


You can't really go wrong with the way almost all of our prospects have turned out lately, though. It was clearly not a fluke that Milwaukee destroyed the AHL last year. Chicago is killing things this year too. Everybody we have called up looks good. Whatever has been going on, it's a HUGE plus for our organization.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Do our lines next year look like this???

Forsberg-Johansen-Tolvanen
Jarnkork-Tomasino-Arvidsson
Jeannot- Jarnkrok-Kunin
Trenin-Sissons-Olivier

Duchene gets taken by Seattle =]

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Do our lines next year look like this???

Forsberg-Johansen-Tolvanen
Jarnkork-Tomasino-Arvidsson
Jeannot- Jarnkrok-Kunin
Trenin-Sissons-Olivier

Duchene gets taken by Seattle =]

No.

1) Seattle will sadly not take Duchene.

2) Tomasino is not a center. At the very least, he won't be in Year 1 in the NHL, since he hasn't been at any point in the last 2 years elsehwere. Maybe we can convert him back at some point, if we need to, but that's a long way off and not going to be the default.

3) Nice to see Jeannot take a huge step in the AHL. What put him ahead of Trenin, though???!?!

I won't be surprised if Poile re-signs Granlund. When he does, it's mostly going to be a case of "yay, good deal" vs. "egad, they overpaid" to me. It won't really hurt us even if it's the latter. But just feels to me like he could maybe be had for less than they are going to splurge on him.

 

[GoldOnGold]

No.

1) Seattle will sadly not take Duchene.

2) Tomasino is not a center. At the very least, he won't be in Year 1 in the NHL, since he hasn't been at any point in the last 2 years elsehwere. Maybe we can convert him back at some point, if we need to, but that's a long way off and not going to be the default.

3) Nice to see Jeannot take a huge step in the AHL. What put him ahead of Trenin, though???!?!

I won't be surprised if Poile re-signs Granlund. When he does, it's mostly going to be a case of "yay, good deal" vs. "egad, they overpaid" to me. It won't really hurt us even if it's the latter. But just feels to me like he could maybe be had for less than they are going to splurge on him.

Tomasino is playing center right now - look at the tweet Scoresberg posted:

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Tomasino is playing center right now - look at the tweet Scoresberg posted:

Ok, that's cool. I've never seen Tomasino play center and that looks like quite the emergency lineup, but it only benefits us if he can keep that in the mix.

If he gets 10 points tonight, I'm still not going to pencil him into our 2nd line C slot next season, though.

But it's great if it stays on the table in some fashion, for sure.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

No.

1) Seattle will sadly not take Duchene.

2) Tomasino is not a center. At the very least, he won't be in Year 1 in the NHL, since he hasn't been at any point in the last 2 years elsehwere. Maybe we can convert him back at some point, if we need to, but that's a long way off and not going to be the default.

3) Nice to see Jeannot take a huge step in the AHL. What put him ahead of Trenin, though???!?!

I won't be surprised if Poile re-signs Granlund. When he does, it's mostly going to be a case of "yay, good deal" vs. "egad, they overpaid" to me. It won't really hurt us even if it's the latter. But just feels to me like he could maybe be had for less than they are going to splurge on him.

Trenin never scored at over a point per game

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Trenin never scored at over a point per game

Wellllll... just to be pedantic he got 35 pts in 32 games last year in the not-watered-down version of the AHL.

 

[adsfan]

Do our lines next year look like this???

Forsberg-Johansen-Tolvanen
Jarnkork-Tomasino-Arvidsson
Jeannot- Jarnkrok-Kunin
Trenin-Sissons-Olivier

Duchene gets taken by Seattle =]

Ironhook is double shifting?

Tolvanen usually played LW in Milwaukee, but he can play RW.

No Granny?

 

[Scoresberg]

Ok, that's cool. I've never seen Tomasino play center and that looks like quite the emergency lineup, but it only benefits us if he can keep that in the mix.

If he gets 10 points tonight, I'm still not going to pencil him into our 2nd line C slot next season, though.

But it's great if it stays on the table in some fashion, for sure.

Didn’t Tomasino play center pretty far up in the OHL? At least the first scouting reports you see of him are saying he’s a center.

I believe he could develop into a center but that’s not necessarily how I bring him into NHL. Start off on the wing, then move to the center.

 

[Scoresberg]

Dude has some skill.

 

[Scoresberg]

No.

1) Seattle will sadly not take Duchene.

2) Tomasino is not a center. At the very least, he won't be in Year 1 in the NHL, since he hasn't been at any point in the last 2 years elsehwere. Maybe we can convert him back at some point, if we need to, but that's a long way off and not going to be the default.

3) Nice to see Jeannot take a huge step in the AHL. What put him ahead of Trenin, though???!?!

I won't be surprised if Poile re-signs Granlund. When he does, it's mostly going to be a case of "yay, good deal" vs. "egad, they overpaid" to me. It won't really hurt us even if it's the latter. But just feels to me like he could maybe be had for less than they are going to splurge on him.

I wouldn’t re-sign Granlund until we can shed some cap. I’d love nothing more than to bring him back but I’m afraid of the contract structure getting too bloated.

 

[triggrman]

He is definitely a center

 

[nine_inch_fang]

What is with the concept of bringing a center up and playing them at wing? Is this something other teams do or just that the Preds have done it for too long and now people think that's normal?

If the kid is a center then try him at center in the NHL. If you decided he can't hack it there then have a conversation with him about playing wing and make that transition in the AHL.
Playing someone at a different position while trying to transfer them to the NHL isn't a recipe for success and it's probably the reason the Preds are loaded with centers that play wing. So not only did they not truly develop at center, they didn't come up the ranks developing skills and instincts at wing. So now they're playing at the NHL level without a specialized set of skills, not the greatest situation for offensive production. Great, if you want to score 2.3 goals per game.

 

[herzausstein]

Tomasino won't start out as the 2C. Start him on wing to get him some NHL experience then we can move him to center later. I still see Seattle taking one of Sissons or Jarnkrok. Start out next season as

Forsberg-Johansen-Tolvanen
Arvidsson-Duchene-Tomasino
Grimaldi- Sissons/Jarnkrok-Kunin
Trenin-Pitlick/Novak-Olivier

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Ingram played last night. 4 goals against on 36 shots, for the loss. But just nice to see him back on the ice.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

Ingram played last night. 4 goals against on 36 shots, for the loss. But just nice to see him back on the ice.

How long has it been since he had a game?

 

[Armourboy]

How long has it been since he had a game?

Last season I think so about a year?

 

[Legionnaire11]

What is with the concept of bringing a center up and playing them at wing? Is this something other teams do or just that the Preds have done it for too long and now people think that's normal?

Pretty much every team does this, start kids gently at an easier position and then transition them back to center as they learn the pro game and sharpen their two-way game. The exceptions are like franchise type players who provide enough value at center right away to make up for their deficiencies, or your 4th line type grinding centers who naturally came up more defensive minded anyway.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

What is with the concept of bringing a center up and playing them at wing? Is this something other teams do or just that the Preds have done it for too long and now people think that's normal?

If the kid is a center then try him at center in the NHL. If you decided he can't hack it there then have a conversation with him about playing wing and make that transition in the AHL.
Playing someone at a different position while trying to transfer them to the NHL isn't a recipe for success and it's probably the reason the Preds are loaded with centers that play wing. So not only did they not truly develop at center, they didn't come up the ranks developing skills and instincts at wing. So now they're playing at the NHL level without a specialized set of skills, not the greatest situation for offensive production. Great, if you want to score 2.3 goals per game.

I think it happens a lot. Teams look at the skating, the defensive play, all that, and an awful lot of junior centers end up on the wings. Tomasino was fine at center in the OHL. But as soon as he steps up against a larger number of bigger/stronger/faster/better players... so far 2/2 times he got switched to wing. (World Juniors and AHL). And that's pretty much the normal path for forwards coming up.

Now as to what the Preds' longer term intentions might be with him... I don't know. But it would just surprise me is all if he stepped in here as a center right away when that wasn't the case in his last two gigs. They could still go either way. I thought he looked just fine on RW. He was still able to transition the puck well and keeps his head up for offensive plays, and if that's how you use him while he works on skating and back-checking and gets adjusted to pro pacing, then I don't think it automatically means you couldn't switch him back to center later. Just it doesn't seem to happen a lot in the NHL?

I guess it depends too what transpires with Johansen and Duchene, since in theory they were set up to be our #1/2 center punch for the next 5 years. So maybe in that context, you start thinking, hey, Tomasino would look good on RW on that line with Duchene. But then Duchene continues to suck, and maybe the thinking starts to swing back in a different direction?

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Last season I think so about a year?

Although he had that whole ill-fated sojourn in Sweden during the shutdown. So it has really only been a few months, I guess, although it seems a lot longer for sure.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

FWIW I see our loaner Carcone got 4 goals last night too. I'm still assuming him and Wilkins and Fortunato are loaned out very much because they are "no longer in our plans". But still, nice to see him get the out-of-nowhere scoring eruption a la Grimaldi.

 

[nine_inch_fang]

I think it happens a lot. Teams look at the skating, the defensive play, all that, and an awful lot of junior centers end up on the wings. Tomasino was fine at center in the OHL. But as soon as he steps up against a larger number of bigger/stronger/faster/better players... so far 2/2 times he got switched to wing. (World Juniors and AHL). And that's pretty much the normal path for forwards coming up.

Now as to what the Preds' longer term intentions might be with him... I don't know. But it would just surprise me is all if he stepped in here as a center right away when that wasn't the case in his last two gigs. They could still go either way. I thought he looked just fine on RW. He was still able to transition the puck well and keeps his head up for offensive plays, and if that's how you use him while he works on skating and back-checking and gets adjusted to pro pacing, then I don't think it automatically means you couldn't switch him back to center later. Just it doesn't seem to happen a lot in the NHL?

I guess it depends too what transpires with Johansen and Duchene, since in theory they were set up to be our #1/2 center punch for the next 5 years. So maybe in that context, you start thinking, hey, Tomasino would look good on RW on that line with Duchene. But then Duchene continues to suck, and maybe the thinking starts to swing back in a different direction?

If the plan is to bring him in as a wing then he should definitely be playing wing in the A but if he's playing in the A as a center and the plan is to keep him there then he should play at center when he comes up.
That "protect him at wing concept" is counterproductive and doesn't give the team or the player a fair evaluation at the NHL level. What's the critique going to sound like?
"Sorry kid you're just not anticipating the breakouts and getting through the neutral zone effectively and you're dropping too low in the Dzone at the wing. Go back to the A and work on that."
To me this is like put a defensemen at wing for a call up. Makes no sense.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

If the plan is to bring him in as a wing then he should definitely be playing wing in the A but if he's playing in the A as a center and the plan is to keep him there then he should play at center when he comes up.
That "protect him at wing concept" is counterproductive and doesn't give the team or the player a fair evaluation at the NHL level. What's the critique going to sound like?
"Sorry kid you're just not anticipating the breakouts and getting through the neutral zone effectively and you're dropping too low in the Dzone at the wing. Go back to the A and work on that."
To me this is like put a defensemen at wing for a call up. Makes no sense.

I can definitely buy into the idea that it might not even have occurred to Poile when the season started that we'd want Tomasino to be a center for us. Poile probably thought hey, I've got Johansen and Duchene locked up forever, I'm obviously protecting them in the Expansion Draft, they are two of our cornerstones of the franchise, and I'll never have to think about needing a top-6 center again for 5 more years.

In which case, ok, keep on letting Tomasino get used to RW in the AHL. Because assuming you are counting on him being a top-6 forward, wing might have been the only position they imagined might be open to him?

Fast forward a few months... ehh... ok, Duchene only looks worse, Johansen is playing ok but still not really producing like a #1 center, are we REALLY as secure in those spots as Poile originally took for granted? It kind of seems like his initial thought was to angle for a 7-3-1 protection scheme and assume he had to use spots on Duchene and Johansen. Maybe this season is introducing doubt into that. Maybe he's starting to realize, wait a sec, maybe I can get away with exposing Duchene, maybe Duchene isn't really proving the he deserves that #1/2 C spot locked down for the next 5 years, maybe it's time to change the plan a little bit and think about tweaking Tomasino back to center and see?

I mean, who really knows, but to me, I can definitely see room for plans to change based on how things have been trending. It's still more likely that Chicago was just ravaged by callups and said "uh, who can we shift to center tonight?!?!? Ah, Tommy, you played center, right?" But to me it might start to make more sense to be thinking organizationally about getting him more pro time playing center too. I don't think our top-6 situation looks today quite like they were probably thinking it would.