Prospect Info: In the System IX (Ads and Prospects)
- Thread starter Jonesey
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Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
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So Tolvanen has a 6-1-1-2 line so far. That's the same as Olivier? That's not good, right? Any reports about him playing great but just being snakebitten in some fashion that can assuage the angst of us stats-watchers? 
Tolvanens advanced stats are pretty poor to be honest. He isn't really doing much. I am trying to stay positive, but this was really when I had hoped we would start to see him show something in Milwaukee.
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
So Tolvanen has a 6-1-1-2 line so far. That's the same as Olivier? That's not good, right? Any reports about him playing great but just being snakebitten in some fashion that can assuage the angst of us stats-watchers?
I've barely noticed him at all.
Scoresberg
In Trotz We Trust?
Remember how stacked the Admirals were supposed to be this year?
Me neither, they're 1-6 to start the year.
Me neither, they're 1-6 to start the year.
Legionnaire11
Registered User
I'm going to list the top wingers over the past three full seasons (16-17 to present) and how much AHL time the accumulated...
1. Nikita Kucherov - 17 games across 1 season; full-time NHLer in 4th season after draft (CHL)
2. Brad Marchand - 113 games across 2 seasons; full-time NHLer in 6th season after draft (CHL)
3. Blake Wheeler - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 5th season after draft (NCAA)
4. Alex Ovechkin - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 2nd season after draft (RSL) (Lockout)
5. Johnny Gaudreau - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 4th season after draft (NCAA)
6. Artemi Panarin - 0 games across 0 seasons; undrafted, full-time NHLer in 6th season after eligible (KHL)
7. Claude Giroux - 38 games across 2 seasons; full-time NHLer in 3rd season after draft (CHL)
8. David Pastrnak - 28 games across 2 seasons; full-time NHLer in 1st season after draft (SHL)
9. Phil Kessel - 2 games across 1 season; full-time NHLer in 1st season after draft (NCAA)
10. Mikko Rantanen - 56 games across 2 seasons; full-time NHLer in 2nd season after draft (Liiga)
11. Vladimir Tarasenko - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 4th season after draft (KHL)
12. Jakub Voracek - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 2nd season after draft (CHL)
13. Jamie Benn - 0 games across 0 seasons; full-time NHLer in 3rd season after draft (CHL)
14. Mark Stone - 91 games across 2 seasons; full-time NHLer in 5th season after draft (CHL)
15. Alex Radulov - 11 games across 1 season; full-time NHLer in 3rd season after draft (CHL) (Lockout)
That's every winger that has scored 200+ points over the last three seasons. And for reference...
Eeli Tolvanen - 65 games across 2 seasons; 3rd season post-draft (KHL)
Thank you for that, that was quick.
It's pretty much what I thought. Most talented wingers don't spend much if any time in the AHL.
Impressive work and good to see. I think the number of years after the draft is the bigger impression I get from looking at that.
I would also say that's an elite list of players. I like to have high goals, but realistic expectations.
I would also say that's an elite list of players. I like to have high goals, but realistic expectations.
Tolvanens "problem" is the unrealistic expectations created by his (now obviously flukish) first half of the KHL season.
If he hadn't done that and was just another very late first rounder developing in the AHL we'd be a lot less disappointed and a lot more patient.
If he hadn't done that and was just another very late first rounder developing in the AHL we'd be a lot less disappointed and a lot more patient.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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Definitely an interesting list and I think the number of post draft seasons you bring up is an interesting point. The average number of seasons before becoming a full time NHLer of those guys is 3.4 so Tolvanen isn't out of the norm there he's just spent his time in the AHL rather than the CHL or NCAA like most of those guys. I guess you could argue from this that it may be better for a players development to dominate their peers for a few years rather than struggle against older players in the AHL. I'm not sure how true that is though as a lot players don't even get the option to play in the AHL at 19 like Tolvanen did, because of the rules with the CHL.
BigFatCat999
First Fubu and now Pred303. !@#$! you cancer
I think flukish in the sense that his single best attribute was emphasized at an unrealistic level playing on bigger ice with a large amount of power play time. In retrospect it was basically best case scenario for only doing what he does well. AHL is forcing him to round out his game or not succeed in a league that is more of a grind.
Predsanddead24
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- Mar 7, 2019
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Pitlick's stats aren't particularly impressive either 0g, 2a. -7 in 7 GP. Any insight from the people who watch the Ads on how he's played?
I don't see decent stats from any of the "skilled" guys. Maybe this is more of a system or coaching issue.
Another player who hasn't had the advance stats for driving scoring chances/goals like you would have hoped, but again tough transition. Tolvanen is generating some shots in comparison to the team but still not really at a great level.
Milwaukee Musings: Three in Three
Good recent recap I had read.
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Yeah unless you have several very talented young forwards who can grow and learn together, the AHL just doesn't seem to do much for most of your finesse type wingers. Their game is usually predicated on complimenting other skilled players and being able to find open ice, both of which seem to be tougher to find in the AHL. It doesn't do much good for Tolvanen if he finds some space in offensive zone if there is no one on the ice with him who can get him the puck in the small window that Tolvanen opened. Pitlick looked pretty close to NHL ready in camp but hasn't done much in Milwaukee either, which to me says more about what is going on in Milwaukee/the AHL than it does about Tolvanen or Pitlick.
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
This is misleading because
1. They have two wins
2. 3 of their 5 losses have been in OT or a shootout. So while they're 2-5, Their points percentage is .500.
They have 14 non-empty net goals in 7 games this year so the offense has been a huge problem, as it always has been under Taylor.
glenngineer
Registered User
Donovan was on the ice for all 3 Grand Rapids goals last night. He isn't playing well IMHO.
Allard is +2 and Carrier is +1.
It seems simplistic, but they need to score more goals!
Troy Grosenick has a 1.57 GAA and is #7 in the AHL out of 64 goalies with 60 minutes or more.
Connor Ingram has a 2.78 GAA and is #33 in the AHL.
Giving up 1.6 goals is enough to win most games. Giving up 2.8 goals still gives you a chance to win.
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Pitlick is a -6 so far (in 7 games), same as Richard in 7 games. I really don't notice Pitlick on the ice.
Cole Schneider is a +4 (in 7 games), Trenin is a +3 (in 3 games) and Salomaki is a +3 (in 3 games).
The team has scored 16 goals and given up 20, but they have 3 losses in OT or SO, which were all last weekend.
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In a nutshell, I've yet to see any organized offensive possession from the team. Admittedly, I didn't see the first GR game or the Friday night COL game, but the rest of the games, I haven't seen enough offensive possessions last long enough to determine what everyone is supposed to do.
I've given Daniel Carr a pass so far as he didn't have the training camp to gel with the team like last year with Chicago, but I'm wondering if the concussion that kept him out of ~30 games last season isn't still hampering him. Again, with the little offensive possession the ads have had with him on the ice, its hard to glean much of anything.
I've given Daniel Carr a pass so far as he didn't have the training camp to gel with the team like last year with Chicago, but I'm wondering if the concussion that kept him out of ~30 games last season isn't still hampering him. Again, with the little offensive possession the ads have had with him on the ice, its hard to glean much of anything.
The highlighted game was the Eagles out skating the Ads. The Eagles seemed to have too much team speed and controlled the neutral zone. It reminded me of 2006, when the Ads lost in the Calder Cup finals to Hershey.
I agree on Carr. My jury is still out on him. He scored 70 points last season. I would settle for 50 this season.
I wouldn't. For most of his 70 point (in 50 games) campaign for the Wolves, he skated with Brooks Macek and Gage Quinney.
On Wednesday, Carr was skating with Tolvanen and Gaudreau. Just based on history, I would have a hard time saying that Tolvanen and Gaudreau are a poorer pairing than those two. If you're the top line player, regardless of team, you're facing the stiffest defensive competition, therefore, if those lines stay consistent, either we need to accept that Macek and Quinney are better than Tolvanen and Gaudreau or there problem lies with the offensive strategy, which falls on the coaching.
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