Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXVI

[ABasin]

Playing in completely different lines with players they have never played with before might be the clue there. Each line had a completely new player to the team and many of them were in different positions and with people they did not play with last year. That would make anyone look slow, uncoordinated and unsure of what to do. I'm waiting to judge when they get some semblance of normalcy and consistency in their lines.

Agreed. This is why I'm going to wait until the 7 of 9 games at home are done.

 

[dahrougem2]

Time to trade O'Reilly. Not because he isn't playing well. Because this defense is so maddeningly incompetent it's getting to the point where I'm switching to other games. How many times are we going to be behind the net, THE OTHER TEAM IS CHANGING, and we just sit there, then skate up a bit, wait too long, and the forechecker takes an angle, plays the body and we're hemmed in our own zone? The ONLY player who does not do this is Barrie, but he can't be out there for 60 minutes unfortunately. I don't care how weak people think Barrie is defensively, I guarantee if there were 6 Tyson Barrie's out there instead of the 6 current D we have, we'd be winning more games.

This is not the old NHL. Sakic and Roy need to wake up and realize this isn't their glory years where Jon Klemm, Uwe Krupp, Greg de Vries and whatever other stay at home d-men could clutch and grab their way to success and avoid being outclassed because of their speed and puck-moving issues. Look around the league. NO SUCCESSFUL TEAM HAS A DEFENSE LIKE OURS. Guenin needs to go. Hejda needs to go. Holden needs to move back to 6th/7th D. Stuart needs to stay on the 3rd pairing. This team needs a #1LD, a #2LD, and IMO a #3LD keeping Stuart at #3RD.

It's embarrassing when you have all the time in the world and just fumble the puck. Here in Edmonton, over the last couple of years there has always been talk about how bad the defence is at moving the puck, and how the skilled forwards weren't being utilized properly because they couldn't get the puck in stride on a breakout. The Oilers of all teams realized the need to fix this, and went out and found Justin Schultz. They gave Martin Marincin time. They went out and signed Mark Fayne and Nikita Nikitin, who aren't exactly world beaters but would absolutely be top 4 on this team.

Our biggest trade assets at the moment are Ryan O'Reilly and our 1st round pick. The way this team is playing, that 1st cannot go unless packaged with O'Reilly for a young, stud d-man with 1st pairing ability. But a trade needs to be completed. We can't go on the entire season just rimming the puck around the boards

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Avs need defense? Big surprise! Not like Roy and co. tried to fix that this off-season....

 

[Avs_19]

Avs need defense? Big surprise! Not like Roy and co. tried to fix that this off-season....

Big offseason acquisition on defense can barely keep up on the bottom pairing. That ain't good.

 

[dahrougem2]

Avs need defense? Big surprise! Not like Roy and co. tried to fix that this off-season....

They have literally no idea what they're doing when it comes to defense.

 

[Avs44]

Time to trade O'Reilly. Not because he isn't playing well. Because this defense is so maddeningly incompetent it's getting to the point where I'm switching to other games. How many times are we going to be behind the net, THE OTHER TEAM IS CHANGING, and we just sit there, then skate up a bit, wait too long, and the forechecker takes an angle, plays the body and we're hemmed in our own zone? The ONLY player who does not do this is Barrie, but he can't be out there for 60 minutes unfortunately. I don't care how weak people think Barrie is defensively, I guarantee if there were 6 Tyson Barrie's out there instead of the 6 current D we have, we'd be winning more games.

This is not the old NHL. Sakic and Roy need to wake up and realize this isn't their glory years where Jon Klemm, Uwe Krupp, Greg de Vries and whatever other stay at home d-men could clutch and grab their way to success and avoid being outclassed because of their speed and puck-moving issues. Look around the league. NO SUCCESSFUL TEAM HAS A DEFENSE LIKE OURS. Guenin needs to go. Hejda needs to go. Holden needs to move back to 6th/7th D. Stuart needs to stay on the 3rd pairing. This team needs a #1LD, a #2LD, and IMO a #3LD keeping Stuart at #3RD.

It's embarrassing when you have all the time in the world and just fumble the puck. Here in Edmonton, over the last couple of years there has always been talk about how bad the defence is at moving the puck, and how the skilled forwards weren't being utilized properly because they couldn't get the puck in stride on a breakout. The Oilers of all teams realized the need to fix this, and went out and found Justin Schultz. They gave Martin Marincin time. They went out and signed Mark Fayne and Nikita Nikitin, who aren't exactly world beaters but would absolutely be top 4 on this team.

Our biggest trade assets at the moment are Ryan O'Reilly and our 1st round pick. The way this team is playing, that 1st cannot go unless packaged with O'Reilly for a young, stud d-man with 1st pairing ability. But a trade needs to be completed. We can't go on the entire season just rimming the puck around the boards

Keep the 1st rounder with the way we're playing...



My fear is what happens to our offence if we lose O'Reilly? Granted, he's been utterly useless lately, but we will need him up front. If we trade him, what are we left with?

McGinn-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Tanguay
Talbot-Mitchell-Briere
McLeod-Cliche-Winchester?

That's when everyone is healthy...you just know Tanguay will get injured, likely one other player too...then we're running more AHLers through our roster. This team can't lose a top 6 forward without one coming back...I'm all on board for moving O'Reilly(I said this well before the season started) for a youngish puck moving defensman(I'd even kill for Gardiner right now) but an at least good second line capable forward HAS to come back as well.


What's actually out there right now? What teams would even want to make a big trade this early in the season? Toronto? ROR+ for Gardiner and a winger? There is no winger that they would move who I would want. Carolina? Sekera(assuming the Avs could re-sign him) and a winger? I don't see the right fit anywhere.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Big offseason acquisition on defense can barely keep up on the bottom pairing. That ain't good.

They have literally no idea what they're doing when it comes to defense.

Hard to acquire a defenseman when a)no one is trading the good ones away b)the free agent's choose to go elsewhere

What else do you want the Avs to do? Trade MacKinnon or Duchene for Boychuk?

 

[dahrougem2]

Keep the 1st rounder with the way we're playing...



My fear is what happens to our offence if we lose O'Reilly? Granted, he's been utterly useless lately, but we will need him up front. If we trade him, what are we left with?

McGinn-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-MacKinnon-Tanguay
Talbot-Mitchell-Briere
McLeod-Cliche-Winchester?

That's when everyone is healthy...you just know Tanguay will get injured, likely one other player too...then we're running more AHLers through our roster. This team can't lose a top 6 forward without one coming back...I'm all on board for moving O'Reilly(I said this well before the season started) for a youngish puck moving defensman(I'd even kill for Gardiner right now) but an at least good second line capable forward HAS to come back as well.

That isn't going to happen though unless our 1st round pick is packaged with O'Reilly. The way I see it, it's either O'Reilly for a dman, or O'Reilly + 1st for dman + 2nd line player. I'd do either to be honest. If we kept the 1st round pick, something I would like to see happen would be moving O'Reilly + Hishon/Heard/Elliott/Sgarbossa for Sekera + Tlusty. Keep the pick, move a prospect, and go with proper lines.

Tanguay-Duchene-Iginla
Landeskog-MacKinnon-McGinn
Tlusty-Mitchell-Briere
Everberg-Winchester-Talbot

Sekera-Johnson
Stuart-Barrie
Hejda/Holden-Redmond

 

[cgf]

They have literally no idea what they're doing when it comes to defense.

...waiting for an opportunity to upgrade it while making sure that we aren't rushing Siemens or Bigras?

Stuart sucks, I hated the move and extension, but we didn't really have a chance at a better guy in FA while we negotiated with Staz, iggy and ROR. Next summer we have no expiring core guys so the priorities will be to lock up ROR, EJ, MacK and Barrie early and going for a FA LHD.

If we get the chance to bring in a Sekera this year for Pickard, our 2nd and Sgar then great, but if not it's better for us to take our lumps and hit FA hard once we've gotten the extensions made official.

This year was going to be a learning year so the core can handle adversity that they didn't face much last season. So the d still needing an EJ partner isn't the end of the world.

Our stars just need to start playing like stars and one of the LHDs will have to step up enough to play most of EJ's shifts. Then we'll be able to slip into the postseason and hopefully finally fix the problem in FA.

 

[dahrougem2]

Hard to acquire a defenseman when a)no one is trading the good ones away b)the free agent's choose to go elsewhere

What else do you want the Avs to do? Trade MacKinnon or Duchene for Boychuk?

Hard to trade for a defenseman when you probably aren't willing to pay the price to get what you need. If Greg Sherman was able to see a glaring need and be willing to move Stewart + Shattenkirk for Johnson, I see no reason why Sakic & Roy don't see the need for it either. Yes, not very many teams trade the good ones away, but you also can't try to make up for it with Nate Guenin's, Nick Holden's, and Brad Stuart's, let alone giving all three of them extensions signalling that Sakic & Roy actually like these players a lot

 

[tigervixxxen]

I still think the main problem is scoring. Even though the D looks bad its not challenging on the scoreboard that is ultimately losing games. If every game was 6-1 would be one thing but its not.

 

[Pokecheque]

One sure fire way to not fix the Defense would be to trade the team's best defensive player.

 

[dahrougem2]

I still think the main problem is scoring. Even though the D looks bad its not challenging on the scoreboard that is ultimately losing games. If every game was 6-1 would be one thing but its not.

But the chances are there. The forwards, whether it is 1 line, 2 lines, or 3 lines per game, are starting to create and the goals are going to come. This is an unusually slow start for us offensively but no team has these types of chances and doesn't finish this much. We aren't utterly dominating Minnesota God-Mode style, but the chances are there and the goals are going to come. However, we can avoid so many problems by getting rid of these inept defenseman and just finding a way to move the puck out of the zone. It isn't the defensive zone coverage that worries me most, it's the inability to break the puck out be it with time or under pressure

 

[dahrougem2]

One sure fire way to not fix the Defense would be to trade the team's best defensive player.

O'Reilly has nothing to do with this defence's inability to make a proper breakout read/pass.

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Hard to trade for a defenseman when you probably aren't willing to pay the price to get what you need. If Greg Sherman was able to see a glaring need and be willing to move Stewart + Shattenkirk for Johnson, I see no reason why Sakic & Roy don't see the need for it either. Yes, not very many teams trade the good ones away, but you also can't try to make up for it with Nate Guenin's, Nick Holden's, and Brad Stuart's, let alone giving all three of them extensions signalling that Sakic & Roy actually like these players a lot

The EJ deal was a complete stroke of luck. Teams are holding onto any defenders that are top 4 defenders or have top 4 potential until they can't hold onto them anymore. How comfortable are you paying O'Reilly for Jonathan Ericsson?

 

[Sideline]

Would there be any appetite from Martin+Sutter+something for ROR? Or do you think Roy would look for something one for one elsewhere?

 

[tigervixxxen]

But the chances are there. The forwards, whether it is 1 line, 2 lines, or 3 lines per game, are starting to create and the goals are going to come. This is an unusually slow start for us offensively but no team has these types of chances and doesn't finish this much. We aren't utterly dominating Minnesota God-Mode style, but the chances are there and the goals are going to come. However, we can avoid so many problems by getting rid of these inept defenseman and just finding a way to move the puck out of the zone. It isn't the defensive zone coverage that worries me most, it's the inability to break the puck out be it with time or under pressure

I agree that in a sense it is luck and execution. This team isn't going to average under 2 goals a game for the entire season. Would be nice if we could see what Redmond can offer before needing to go out and get someone else. I just don't know if they will make a more or even should. I can't see Roy sitting back and watching his team sink but he hasn't exhausted all the options available to him on his own roster by removing the problem children from the lineup. I also wouldn't want to see a big piece of our future sold off to get a short term fix, especially with the uncertainty of the season right now. A top 10 pick or even a high second could become a huge asset for this organization. If it is part of a franchise deal like EJ is one thing but to get someone that could be marginally better than Redmond is not the answer.

 

[tigervixxxen]

Would there be any appetite from Martin+Sutter+something for ROR? Or do you think Roy would look for something one for one elsewhere?

Possibly but we are at 49 contracts so its going to be tough to take something not one for one. One of our headaches might have to come back in return.

 

[dahrougem2]

The EJ deal was a complete stroke of luck. Teams are holding onto any defenders that are top 4 defenders or have top 4 potential until they can't hold onto them anymore. How comfortable are you paying O'Reilly for Jonathan Ericsson?

That's unrealistic though, and you know it. There is literally no reason whatsoever that the Avs don't call about Sekera, besides the fact that Sekera might now be hurt? (I remember seeing him crash into the boards last time I saw Canes highlites a few days ago). I'm not trying to sell O'Reilly short here, I'm just trying to do what I think is best for this team both now and in the future.

If this team wants to let Siemens and Bigras develop, fine. But it's been 4 years since Siemens was drafted and he isn't NHL ready yet, and he isn't going to be at his best when he first steps into the lineup so if he is going to pan out as a top 4 d-man, I say we don't see it until the 2016-2017 season. Same thing with Bigras, who seems to be developing a bit quicker but he probably isn't ready for top 4 duty until at least 2016-2017. There's no reason for this team to embarrass themselves by sticking with the Holden's, Guenin's, and Stuart's long-term until the kids are ready

 

[Gigantor The Goalie]

Trade O'Reilly for an injured impending UFA defender...and I thought I was crazy

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I still think the main problem is scoring. Even though the D looks bad its not challenging on the scoreboard that is ultimately losing games. If every game was 6-1 would be one thing but its not.

The defense's inability to transition the puck to the forwards is a huge issue with scoring. Slapping the puck up the boards is not going to lead to goals.

 

[Sideline]

Possibly but we are at 49 contracts so its going to be tough to take something not one for one. One of our headaches might have to come back in return.

I think that works from the Penguins side if you guys think the base for a deal is there. Stuff like contract limits and a few hundred thousand on the salary cap can always be ironed out.

 

[cgf]

Trading ROR for a dman wouldn't work well cause we won't get any one near as good for him. All we can do is hope to get one of the rentals who could be on the move like Sekera for Pickard and either Hishon or Sgar+2nd. But that's not something you can make happen, it's something you've gotta wait to have a chance at and then pounce.

 

[dahrougem2]

Trade O'Reilly for an injured impending UFA defender...and I thought I was crazy

You can put it that way. Then you can take the Canes' point of view and say trade our #1 d-man for a disgruntled player who's a head case when it comes to negotiations and struggling mightily. You can spin it to make it look awful for us, but IMO that's just you not wanting to trade ROR more than it is trading for Sekera

 

[Freudian]

I don't think Avs are going to trade O'Reilly or the first round pick. I don't expect any trades, to be honest.