Rumor: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics) LXVI

[cgf]

I think that the Avs should be going extremely hard after Sekera. I think Marc Staal 100% makes it to free agency, and his first option is likely going to be Carolina to play with Eric and Jordan, unless one or both get traded this year then that puts a wrench in those plans. But if they stay, he's my best bet at signing in Carolina. If we could manage to pluck Sekera from them, even if it's at the deadline, do it.

However, I am on board with most of you in saying that Bleackley and Bigras can't go. I'm still iffy on Siemens as IMO I project him as a 3rd pairing rugged defenseman, and I'm willing to move him in a package.

I wouldn't move Siemens not just because I'm a big fan of his talent, as his skating and outlet pass on top of that size and mean streak would do our d a lot of good, especially if he can pick up some things from Stuart who used to be that smooth-skating, puck-capable, and nasty top 4 guy; but because Duncan is so close to the NHL. This year we should see him get a significant call up when Hejda/Stuart/Holden get hurt for a while and Wilson Wilson's his way out of the lineup. After how good Dunk looked in camp with the strong first AHL season he had when healthy last year, he should show enough in that call up to make himself part of the equation next year so that he can take Stuart's job for good by the end of that season.

Even if I'm wrong and he maxes out as a third pairing guy like Holden / today's-Hejda rather than becoming the prime-Stuart I think he can be, I'd hate to give up on him now when we're so close to having a much better answer on where he'll really peak. With Barrie the only dman we have who we drafted and developed into an NHLer I'd be really loathe to lose the only other guy who looks like he can also fit that bill at some point in the next two seasons.

Plus it would help buy time for Bigras if we have Siemens pushing Stuart for the third LHD job and sign/bring-in someone to play with EJ; and I really like letting dmen and goalies over-ripen while getting sporadic call ups to check on where they are. Especially kids who have to fill out and learn to play with their man strength, like Bigras still has to do.

That's why a FA or a guy we can get for secondary pieces is as high as I'd go if I was the one pulling the trigger. We just need someone a little better than Hejda was last year to hold the fort next to EJ for the next 3-4 years, and to bounce Holden and Stuart down to the second and third pairings they should be on until Siemens and Bigras surpass them. Sekera would be ridiculously perfect though, Erhoff or Martin would be great for us to with their passing skills and two way play, but sekera's basically what I hope Bigras becomes as the supremely reliable EJ partner I've wanted since Greg from Accounting sent Kirk n Manbearpig to Stl for the big fella.

I was really bummed we didn't snap Sekera up when he left buffalo until I started watching Bigras games and fell in love with the intelligent confidence, smoothness, and strong tools that made me love Landy, Barrie, and Cap'nKirk before him. If we could bring him in now, without losing any of the guys I listed in my previous posts I'd be absolutely ecstatic and would be happy to see patty and joe just handing out extensions and filling the pipeline from then on. With the only possible move still to make being sending Patrick, Joe, and Varly on a recruiting trip to see Radulov should ROR walk, because that's what will happen if that's where we find ourselves the way Iggy replacing Staz did. It is known.

 

[dahrougem2]

I would not move Siemens until he got a chance in the NHL I agree, but with Roy being Roy it's likely that even if Hejda, Wilson, Guenin, Redmond, and Holden all get hurt we'll probably see Noreau, Gervais and Stollery get called up before Duncan

 

[cgf]

Doubt it, none of those guys have earned Roy's faith like Guenin and cliche have, while Siemens turned a lot of heads in camp. I'm pretty sure he's our 5th string LHD after Holden, Hejda, Stuart, and Wilson right now.

 

[avsfan09]

To give some idea of Gormley, he was about Redmond level in the AHL last year. Gormley is much younger though. I'd definitely like to land him.

What does he project to be I'm the NHL. At one point he projected to be a possible top pairing defenceman but I don't know how his development has gone. Is he a good puck mover, skater, smart, physical? Good defensively?

If he was available he might be worth the investment seeing how our left side is weak in NHL capable prospects. Although I think Siemens and Bigras have a reasonable shot of being ready next year. Its a shame we tied up Stuart and holden so long as it really ruins our flexibility and doesn't allow for as much competition.

 

[cgf]

We're not starting any season with two rookie dmen.

 

[avsfan09]

We're not starting any season with two rookie dmen.

I never claimed we were.(If you were replying to me) I said they could compete for a spot.

 

[niwotsblessing]

We're not starting any season with two rookie dmen.

True, which is why Siemens should have been starting as our 3rd pairing LHD to get sheltered NHL minutes this season. Whenever he comes into the NHL he'll make rookie mistakes, might as well shelter him when you can. Plus he can do everything we want on D right now- skate, pass, carry the puck out of the D-zone, and hit like a freight train. Doesn't have the experience, but he has the tools to exceed the hot mess we have on the ice right now.

 

[CobraAcesS]

True, which is why Siemens should have been starting as our 3rd pairing LHD to get sheltered NHL minutes this season. Whenever he comes into the NHL he'll make rookie mistakes, might as well shelter him when you can. Plus he can do everything we want on D right now- skate, pass, carry the puck out of the D-zone, and hit like a freight train. Doesn't have the experience, but he has the tools to exceed the hot mess we have on the ice right now.

True, which is why Siemens should have been starting as our 3rd pairing LHD to get sheltered NHL minutes this season. Whenever he comes into the NHL he'll make rookie mistakes, might as well shelter him when you can. Plus he can do everything we want on D right now- skate, pass, carry the puck out of the D-zone, and hit like a freight train. Doesn't have the experience, but he has the tools to exceed the hot mess we have on the ice right now.

This... I'd take Siemens over Wilson or Guenin right now. Maybe even Hejda with the way hes been playing. If we're going to put up with so many mistakes from them, we might as well do it developing a future asset.

Edit : Can't say I agree with Roy's roster management, especially lately.

 

[cgf]

True, which is why Siemens should have been starting as our 3rd pairing LHD to get sheltered NHL minutes this season. Whenever he comes into the NHL he'll make rookie mistakes, might as well shelter him when you can. Plus he can do everything we want on D right now- skate, pass, carry the puck out of the D-zone, and hit like a freight train. Doesn't have the experience, but he has the tools to exceed the hot mess we have on the ice right now.

Eh, this is just his second season of pro hockey. And he had an injury interfere with his development last year. I'm very high on Siemens ceiling, totally buy him as a prime Brad Stuart one day, but I liked the idea of starting him in cleveland if we could snag a competent vet to replicate what hejda did next to EJ last year...unfortunately what we got instead was brad stuart...

Siemens should get some good PT if we face any injuries on the left, as I can't imagine it'll take Wilson long to lose his job once he has to step in, especially after how much Siemens showed the coaches that he wanted that job in camp. Meanwhile Dunk gets to keep working on his game for a little longer so that he can come into the team with maximum confidence, and once we're past this rough patch with all of the new guys having found their place so that the kid isn't getting his first real burn in the midst of the first bit of real adversity we've seen and the first mini-crisis the club will have to get through.

I figure next season in camp he'll battle Stuart (if we add an EJ partner) or Hejda (or a similar vet fa if we don't) for the third pairing spot. With the vet again likely starting the season as the third pairing guy, especially likely if we do sign someone competent so it's Stuart Siemens is competing with, but Siemens would have a genuine chance to take that job on a permanent basis when he fills in for an injury that season. If we just re-sign Hejda or bring in someone like current-Hejda then I could see Duncan starting the season with the big club next year, but I feel that isn't too likely to actually happen.

Let's Bigras spend his entire first season of pro-Hockey, and at least the start of his second season as a pro, in the A where he can continue building up his strength and learning how to handle the power of grown men. Plus it could let him build up some real offensive confidence after a junior career where he's been cleaning up for inferior partners the entire time and thus playing a super-safe game. His skating, smarts, and puck control could make him a hugely productive transitional dman at that level before his number comes up with the big boys. And looking at the divergent paths of Barrie and Elliott, as well as the struggles EJ had under Sacco, should make it abundantly clear to any Avs fan just how important having confidence is for a young dman trying to make things happen with the puck.

This... I'd take Siemens over Wilson or Guenin right now. Maybe even Hejda with the way hes been playing. If we're going to put up with so many mistakes from them, we might as well do it developing a future asset.

Edit : Can't say I agree with Roy's roster management, especially lately.

The NHL isn't necessarily the best place for a young guy to learn on the job depending on what a kid needs. Duncan has less than 1 full professional season under his belt, letting him enter his second pro season with the confidence, meanstreak and added strength that he came back from the summer with at the pro-level he was at last year makes a lot of sense to me. Let's see what that great camp means when we can compare it almost directly to what we saw last year, when he isn't also dealing with faster/stronger/better players. He'll get a chance, and I think there's a good chance he impresses in that shot. How much he impresses and how long that trial run lasts will tell us whether we want him to go back to the A for the start of season three with another summer to improve himself after gaining that NHL experience, and he should be just right to take over an NHL gig and thrive at once injuries again open a job up for him. At that point he'll still have some rookie mistakes happening, but he'll be able to thrive between them and have the confidence to move past and learn from them.

As far as Guenin's place on the team goes, I'm pretty sure this is last significant stretch of games we see where Guenin is regularly in the lineup and we're healthy. I like Redmond a lot as a third pairing guy, think he can be a better version of Holden, but on the right side, so once he gets his chance this year I expect him to run with it and leave Guenin eating nachos for the next...ever...as long as he can be adequate on the PK from the get go, or at least better than Holden really soon, as Hejda, Stuart and EJ seem to have 3 of the 4 PK spots locked up on D.

 

[Gabe the Babe]

I don't dislike Stuart like everyone else here... But why couldn't we have picked up a Gardiner or Gormley? Veteran leadership aside those two have the potential to be big time dmen and they just can't seem to get minutes for their team

 

[AvsRobin]

I don't dislike Stuart like everyone else here... But why couldn't we have picked up a Gardiner or Gormley? Veteran leadership aside those two have the potential to be big time dmen and they just can't seem to get minutes for their team

The main problem with him is the extension right away. Same with McLeod. If we are sellers at the deadline. It would have been nice to have them both as trade baits for a team looking to add depth for the playoffs. We could sell off Stuart, Hejda, Wilson, McLeod and Briere and bring up guys like Everberg, Hishon, Siemens and play Redmond. We could have probably have regained the picks we have thrown away since Roy/Sakic took over.

 

[cgf]

The main problem with him is the extension right away. Same with McLeod. If we are sellers at the deadline. It would have been nice to have them both as trade baits for a team looking to add depth for the playoffs. We could sell off Stuart, Hejda, Wilson, McLeod and Briere and bring up guys like Everberg, Hishon, Siemens and play Redmond. We could have probably have regained the picks we have thrown away since Roy/Sakic took over.

Eh, Cody wasn't gunna get sold of no matter what they love what he brings to the lockerroom, he actually cares about what's on the front of his jersey and he's a fine veteran 4th liner to help the kids keep the team together through adversity, and we were gunna need a vet like Stuart or Hejda for next season, even if we can sign/trade-cheaply-for Sekera/Erhoff/Martin/Campbell. It hedges against us coming out of FA without the guy we need and Siemens stagnating this season. Also gives us solid depth and lets us handle Siemens patiently next season as he establishes himself as a full time nhler. I have issues with the stuart extension, but us not being able to sell him at the deadline just isn't one of them.

My gripe is that he's here for three years instead of just two. A one year extension would've lined up with when the new deals would kick in for MacK, EJ, Barrie and ROR. If that were how it played out we would be free to sign someone to play with EJ this summer and count on Stuart's contract, like Hejda and Briere's a year before or tanguay's that summer, to come off of the books and ensure that we have the cap space to fit in that sort of addition on top of our extensions.

With the two year extension Stuart's 3.6M come into the equation in that critical 2016-2017 financial year. And it's devoted to a guy who'd ideally be eating nachos behind the FA, Holden, and Siemens, with Bigras breathing down his neck should there be a serious injury to one of the first three. As the third pairing guy next year who lost his job to Siemens as the season progressed before riding off into the sunset, I'd have few complaints with Stuart, but as someone who needs to play some role the year after that I don't like it all unless Patrick can sell Stuart off in the summer of 2016 when he has one year left.

 

[Avs_19]

I don't dislike Stuart like everyone else here... But why couldn't we have picked up a Gardiner or Gormley? Veteran leadership aside those two have the potential to be big time dmen and they just can't seem to get minutes for their team

Those guys would cost more than a 2nd round pick.

Stuart trade and extension was awful but it is what it is. For the most part he has been good on the bottom pairing and I like his play on the PK. However, I don't think you give up a pick and pay $3.6M/yr for 17 mins/gm and PK ability. He's basically what Guenin was in the first half of last season.

 

[Nihiliste]

Those guys would cost more than a 2nd round pick.

Stuart trade and extension was awful but it is what it is. For the most part he has been good on the bottom pairing and I like his play on the PK. However, I don't think you give up a pick and pay $3.6M/yr for 17 mins/gm and PK ability. He's basically what Guenin was in the first half of last season.

Three long years.

 

[Avs71]

Stuart for 2 more years after this season won't seem so bad once the Avs get another good defenceman or two (hopefully).

Someone-EJ
Someone-Barrie
Holden-Stuart

Is fine in 2 years.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Stuart for 2 more years after this season won't seem so bad once the Avs get another good defenceman or two (hopefully).

Someone-EJ
Someone-Barrie
Holden-Stuart

Is fine in 2 years.

as we saw last offseason, lot easier said than done.

i think bigras or siemens will fill one of those spots, though.

 

[Avs71]

as we saw last offseason, lot easier said than done.

i think bigras or siemens will fill one of those spots, though.

I agree. Just have to hope for a Staal or Sekera, or another EJ type trade.

However, even guys like Carle, Garrison, Buffalo Sekera, Gunnarson, etc are guys who have changed teams in recent years who would have helped. If the Avs can land a guy in that tier, it would really help.

I'd probably be in the minority, but I'd sacrifice Barrie in another Johnson type trade.

 

[raistlin76]

I'd probably be in the minority, but I'd sacrifice Barrie in another Johnson type trade.

I wouldn't. I think Barrie will top 5 offensive d-man in the league in near future. Of course we can hit home-run and for example turn Larsson into next Lidstrom, but IMHO risk is too high. We don't have enough talent on defense to risk the one we have in a trade that can tur out as one of the worst in our history. We can sacrifice Elliott, but not Barrie.

 

[AvsRobin]

Stuart for 2 more years after this season won't seem so bad once the Avs get another good defenceman or two (hopefully).

Someone-EJ
Someone-Barrie
Holden-Stuart

Is fine in 2 years.

We are really paying him too much for the next two years if he already is considered a 3rd pairing guy. I honestly believe this a guy who would have been forced to take a 1 year 1.0-1.5M deal next summer.

 

[Avs71]

Barrie doesn't have the shot to surpass guys like Weber, Subban, Hedman, or Karlsson. Then there is guys like Keith, Yandle, Pietrangelo, OEL, and Letang.

I could see Barrie being top-20 consistently. Not top 5 though.

 

[raistlin76]

Barrie doesn't have the shot to surpass guys like Weber, Subban, Hedman, or Karlsson. Then there is guys like Keith, Yandle, Pietrangelo, OEL, and Letang.

I could see Barrie being top-20 consistently. Not top 5 though.

I don't count Weber as offensive d-man, neither Keith, Pietrangelo, Hedman. They are all-round d-men. Letang, Green are offensive d-men and I don't think Barrie will be worse than them

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

I don't count Weber as offensive d-man, neither Keith, Pietrangelo, Hedman. They are all-round d-men. Letang, Green are offensive d-men and I don't think Barrie will be worse than them

They're not offensive dman but they are better offensively than Barrie.

 

[ABasin]

I think Barrie will top 5 offensive d-man in the league in near future.

Ugh.

So, including Elliott, we'll have 2 of the top 5 offensive defensemen in the NHL? We do love our young players in this group.

 

[raistlin76]

Ugh.

So, including Elliott, we now have 2 of the top 5 offensive defensemen in the NHL? Great.

Did I say something about Elliott? So don't try to read between the lines.

 

[CobraAcesS]

I agree. Just have to hope for a Staal or Sekera, or another EJ type trade.

However, even guys like Carle, Garrison, Buffalo Sekera, Gunnarson, etc are guys who have changed teams in recent years who would have helped. If the Avs can land a guy in that tier, it would really help.

I'd probably be in the minority, but I'd sacrifice Barrie in another Johnson type trade.

Gunny and Sekera were huge misses on our part IMO.

Carle is the one name on that list I'd want no part of TBH. Hes not as dynamic offensively as Barrie, and just as bad defensively. I also think Barrie can and will learn to defend like Campbell and Enstrom do. He has the stick skills and the IQ for it.

The growth Barrie has shown defensively is actually impressive considering his stature and experience.

I like the different dynamic that EJ and Barrie bring being on different defensive pairs as well. Finding them solid partners is the issue. I'm not sure sacrificing our second pairing would be the route to take in acquiring another top 4 defender.

I'd love to see something like,

Sekera - EJ

Stuart - Barrie

Holden - Redmond

ASAP, but I've almost given up on the idea of Guenin coming out of the lineup. It's sad that Redmond has not been given an opportunity yet. Rabble Rabble...