Speculation: In-season Proposals, Rumors, Free Agents & Roster Moves (related topics here) XXXI

[MikeC]

It wouldn't change my stance. I don't think it's smart for teams to go two straight years without a first rounder, especially in a cap era. You need cheap young talent in the lineup every few years. The Avs have Landeskog and Siemens, but no first round pick last year and the first round pick from 2010 hasn't played in two years.

I love Yandle, but I wouldn't sell the farm for him. I know he's not old, but he's a few years older than the core of the team, so when they're finally ready to compete, is he going to still going to be around or in his prime? I don't think the gap between Yandle and O'Reilly is a first round pick, with or without Boyd Gordon, who is a 4th line player.

I would love to have Yandle but O'Reilly + a first for Yandle + Gordon =
no way in Hell.

 

[Frenchy]

Dana tyrell on waivers?

Plays for Tampa and if you go into the waiver forum apparently all the Tampa fans dislike the move. I guess he's fast and great pk.

It's sad that we can't turn back time and predict the future . i'm taking Tyrell over Palushaj any day of the week.

 

[shadow1]

To me, defense is the area where drafting and developing plays the biggest role in a teams success. Seldom have we seen a championship team (yes, 2001 Avalanche being one exception) buy their blue line.

That's why I think a Yandle splash is a big risk. Colorado's defense needs to be blown up from top to bottom.

 

[PAZ]

To me, defense is the area where drafting and developing plays the biggest role in a teams success. Seldom have we seen a championship team (yes, 2001 Avalanche being one exception) buy their blue line.

That's why I think a Yandle splash is a big risk. Colorado's defense needs to be blown up from top to bottom.

Bruins brought in Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Kaberle, Ference.

The only one that was homegrown was McQuaid.

 

[shadow1]

Bruins brought in Chara, Seidenberg, Boychuk, Kaberle, Ference.

The only one that was homegrown was McQuaid.

Boston is also an exception. However, Boychuck was developed by the Bruins even though they didn't draft him.

 

[bohlmeister]

The Avs have been terrible at developing defenseman. And at this point, with our core being 22-25 the defenders will not develop in time. They will need to trade for defenders.

 

[shadow1]

My opinion on the defensive situation begins with this question: When's the last time an Avalanche defensive roster has displayed the characteristics of successful drafting and developing?

Since John-Michael Liles (who's 32!), the list of NHL defensemen developed by the Colorado Avalanche starts with Ryan Wilson and stops with Kevin Shattenkirk.

Not only have they leaned heavily towards drafting offensive players - they didn't select a single defenseman in the 2012 Entry Draft - but they've targeted declining veterans in the trade and free agent market. Jan Hejda, Shane O'Brien, and Matt Hunwick are the new Scott Hannan, Brett Clark, and Ruslan Salei.

New regime, same tired old mentality.

There's so much wrong with Colorado's defense that adding a star like Keith Yandle - theoretically at the cost of considerable assets - is like painting over a rotting fence rather than replacing the fence.

Build from the ground up. The paint shouldn't come until a solid foundation has been put in the dirt.

 

[Foppa2118]

The Avs have been terrible at developing defenseman. And at this point, with our core being 22-25 the defenders will not develop in time. They will need to trade for defenders.

Thank you. The idea that they can draft their way to a legit D core is ridiculous. Any defenseman, and a lot of the forwards they're drafting this year and beyond will be replacements for the guys they have to let go in the future once they already are competitive and have a big budget.

They will not be guys that will help build them into a cup challenger. That's why they will have to trade for these missing pieces. Holding their breath for a top UFA defenseman to sign here over other places is not advisable either.

This is why they shouldn't let this situation with Yandle slip through their fingers, if there's a shot at him.

 

[bohlmeister]

My opinion on the defensive situation begins with this question: When's the last time an Avalanche defensive roster has displayed the characteristics of successful drafting and developing?

Since John-Michael Liles (who's 32!), the list of NHL defensemen developed by the Colorado Avalanche starts with Ryan Wilson and stops with Kevin Shattenkirk.

Not only have they leaned heavily towards drafting offensive players - they didn't select a single defenseman in the 2012 Entry Draft - but they've targeted declining veterans in the trade and free agent market. Jan Hejda, Shane O'Brien, and Matt Hunwick are the new Scott Hannan, Brett Clark, and Ruslan Salei.

New regime, same tired old mentality.

There's so much wrong with Colorado's defense that adding a star like Keith Yandle - theoretically at the cost of considerable assets - is like painting over a rotting fence rather than replacing the fence.

Build from the ground up. The paint shouldn't come until a solid foundation has been put in the dirt.

No. He pushes everyone back in the lineup. And ideally he plays 27 minutes a night, hopefully alongside EJ. That is almost half the game covered. It would be a massive improvement on what we have.


Why is Yandle even being brought up? Why would Phx trade him? He is their top pairing defenseman and they are a playoff team. I understand that they might move him in a few years when Gormley is ready and OEL is playing those minutes.

 

[shadow1]

No. He pushes everyone back in the lineup. And ideally he plays 27 minutes a night, hopefully alongside EJ. That is almost half the game covered. It would be a massive improvement on what we have.

27 minutes a night from a guy who's currently averaging 21 (third on his team) and 0:04 on the penalty kill?

Exactly my point. Teams go for the quick fix and get burned.

 

[Drij]

27 minutes a night from a guy who's currently averaging 21 (third on his team) and 0:04 on the penalty kill?

Exactly my point. Teams go for the quick fix and get burned.

wouldn't Keith Yandle be a long term fix?

 

[bohlmeister]

27 minutes a night from a guy who's currently averaging 21 (third on his team) and 0:04 on the penalty kill?

Exactly my point. Teams go for the quick fix and get burned.

Alright. I gues you are correct. Lets just draft our defenseman. Trade ROR and Stastny for picks. Then in 7 years hopefully we have a solid team built. That is most likely what management has planned. That is why they keep aqcuiring players in their early 20's.

 

[Foppa2118]

My opinion on the defensive situation begins with this question: When's the last time an Avalanche defensive roster has displayed the characteristics of successful drafting and developing?

Since John-Michael Liles (who's 32!), the list of NHL defensemen developed by the Colorado Avalanche starts with Ryan Wilson and stops with Kevin Shattenkirk.

Not only have they leaned heavily towards drafting offensive players - they didn't select a single defenseman in the 2012 Entry Draft - but they've targeted declining veterans in the trade and free agent market. Jan Hejda, Shane O'Brien, and Matt Hunwick are the new Scott Hannan, Brett Clark, and Ruslan Salei.

New regime, same tired old mentality.

There's so much wrong with Colorado's defense that adding a star like Keith Yandle - theoretically at the cost of considerable assets - is like painting over a rotting fence rather than replacing the fence.

Build from the ground up. The paint shouldn't come until a solid foundation has been put in the dirt.

Wait, so in the same post that you bring up their inability to draft and develop defenseman, you insist the way they build their D core is by drafting and developing defenesman?

And having EJ and Yandle to build around is just paint on a rotting fence?

Here is the list of defenseman they've attempted to build their fence with since 99'. Just riddled with quality NHL talent.

Grenier, Martin
Lindstrom, Sanny
Magnuson, William
Finger, Jeff
Saviels, Agris
Sauer, Kurt
Fahey, Brian
Liles, John-Michael
Bahen, Chris
Viitanen, Mikko
Boychuk, Johnny
Lundberg, Eric
Kalteva, Mikko
Gilbert, Tom
Christie, Taylor
Liffiton, David
Demen-Willaume, Richard
Peltier, Derek
McClellan, Stephen
Macias, Raymond
Lynch, Jason
Cumiskey, Kyle
Williams, Nigel
Montgomery, Kevin
Shattenkirk, Kevin
Cohen, Colby
Hellgren, Jens
Gaunce, Cameron
Chouinard, Joel
Holos, Jonas
Elliott, Stefan
Barrie, Tyson
Young, Gus
Silas, Stephen
Rutkowski, Troy
Siemens, Duncan
Beaupre, Gabriel
Donnelly, Dillon

 

[bohlmeister]

Wait, so in the same post that you bring up their inability to draft and develop defenseman, you insist the way they build their D core is by drafting and developing defenesman?

Here is the list of defenseman they've attempted to build from within with since 99'. Just riddled with quality NHL talent.

Grenier, Martin
Lindstrom, Sanny
Magnuson, William
Finger, Jeff
Saviels, Agris
Sauer, Kurt
Fahey, Brian
Liles, John-Michael
Bahen, Chris
Viitanen, Mikko
Boychuk, Johnny
Lundberg, Eric
Kalteva, Mikko
Gilbert, Tom
Christie, Taylor
Liffiton, David
Demen-Willaume, Richard
Peltier, Derek
McClellan, Stephen
Macias, Raymond
Lynch, Jason
Cumiskey, Kyle
Williams, Nigel
Montgomery, Kevin
Shattenkirk, Kevin
Cohen, Colby
Hellgren, Jens
Gaunce, Cameron
Chouinard, Joel
Holos, Jonas
Elliott, Stefan
Barrie, Tyson
Young, Gus
Silas, Stephen
Rutkowski, Troy
Siemens, Duncan
Beaupre, Gabriel
Donnelly, Dillon

Remember when they traded Williams and everyone acted like they just traded Pronger. LOL.

 

[shadow1]

Alright. I gues you are correct. Lets just draft our defenseman. Trade ROR and Stastny for picks. Then in 7 years hopefully we have a solid team built. That is most likely what management has planned. That is why they keep aqcuiring players in their early 20's.

Thank you.

Wait, so in the same post that you bring up their inability to draft and develop defenseman, you insist the way they build their D core is by drafting and developing defenesman?

Here is the list of defenseman they've attempted to build from within with since 99'. Just riddled with quality NHL talent.

Yes, because their struggles stem from their flawed mentality.

 

[NHL33*]

They need to do both. Yes, they've had issues developing defensemen but it's also part of the reason why they're such a bad team today because they don't have enough talent nor cap space / cash to simply go out and address those things via trade or UFA alone. It's the elephant in the room and it needs to be fixed ASAP...and they need to ensure this defensive responsibility also extends to forwards so they can support the blue line better than we have.

 

[Foppa2118]

Remember when they traded Williams and everyone acted like they just traded Pronger. LOL.

It didn't make much sense to me at the time either. Glad I was wrong, and I've since been able to trust the Avs sense of commitment, work ethic, and attitude..

Yes, because their struggles stem from their flawed mentality.

Well how do we fix it, if that mentality isn't going to change, the UFA market isn't likely to be our friend, and we don't trade for a defenseman like Yandle? Unless you're promoting complete and utter apathy which I might be able to get behind you on.

 

[shadow1]

It didn't make much sense to me at the time either. Glad I was wrong, and I've since been able to trust the Avs sense of commitment, work ethic, and attitude..



Well how do we fix it, if that mentality isn't going to change, the UFA market isn't likely to be our friend, and we don't trade for a defenseman like Yandle?

New management or simply a new mentality. If the mentality wasn't to load up on smallish forwards, the Avalanche might have Mark Psysk, Jared Tonordi, or if they were really lucky Justin Faulk, in the system right now instead of Joey Hishon.

That one small change, especially if it was Faulk that Colorado selected, would completely alter the build of the defense right now. Sadly, the reality is that the Avalanche have an injured center on a team with strong organizational depth in that area.

 

[Foppa2118]

New management or simply a new mentality. If the mentality wasn't to load up on smallish forwards, the Avalanche might have Mark Psysk, Jared Tonordi, or if they were really lucky Justin Faulk, in the system right now instead of Joey Hishon.

That one small change, especially if it was Faulk that Colorado selected, would completely alter the build of the defense right now. Sadly, the reality is that the Avalanche have an injured center on a team with strong organizational depth in that area.

Or Emerson Etem. PL has always advocated up tempo offensive systems and while Pracey's ideals run the draft, that purely talented offensive approach penetrates every facet of the Avs organization. They pick their coaches based on that, and push them in that direction. Same with drafting, same with which prospects to give chances to, same with the players they decide to pay, and which they get cheap with, and which to let go, and which to keep.

PL's recipe has always been in favor of the offensive players, while qualified coaches, and defensive or role players are imminently replaceable, and much further down on the priority list. What he's ended up with for the last decade though is crappy coaches, and crappy defensive and role players because he won't pay to keep any of them, or bring in any qualified coaches that don't have his stink all over them. And so far the few talented players they've found haven't turned into Sakic and Forsberg to carry this team either, so his approach has been doubly effed.

It's almost like he'd have to get lucky somehow for his approach to work out. That's what he's banking on. Hitting lightning in a bottle again with his in house coaches and draft picks. Really solid plan.

 

[chet1926]

New management or simply a new mentality. If the mentality wasn't to load up on smallish forwards, the Avalanche might have Mark Psysk, Jared Tonordi, or if they were really lucky Justin Faulk, in the system right now instead of Joey Hishon.

That one small change, especially if it was Faulk that Colorado selected, would completely alter the build of the defense right now. Sadly, the reality is that the Avalanche have an injured center on a team with strong organizational depth in that area.

In fairness to the Avs and their management, when we drafted Hishon we had an overabundance of defensive prospects in the system that we thought were going to develop nicely including Barrie, Elliott, Gaunce, Holos, even Cohen and Shattenkirk were still our prospects at the time.

At that same point the only offensive prospects or young guys we had were Duchene, O'Reilly (remember he hadn't shown much offensive upside at this point), and Stewart.

Now a couple years later and 2 years of Hishon not playing due to a cheap shot its easy in hindsight to say we should have drafted a dman instead of Hishon. Because we are lacking on defense and our top prospects on D have either been traded or aren't developing like we had hoped. But at the time I had no problem with the Hishon pick.

Now I can fully agree with you about this past draft. Not sure what the thought process was. Heard is going to turn out to be an awful pick, could have looked for a quality dman here especially with players like McCabe, Thrower and Pelech on the board. Liked the Bourke pick. Hated the Clarke pick, another spot we could have looked for a dman but at this point in the draft its kind of a crap shoot anyways, still would have liked to seen a dman instead. But in fairness I did like the Blandisi and Smith picks at the end of the draft.

 

[Pokecheque]

Why no love for Heard? I've read a lot of good things about him.

 

[Nihiliste]

What is Heard's realistic upside? 4th line C? If he really transforms his offensive game maybe 3rd line C one day, though that seems unlikely. Maybe I'm selling the kid short and maybe they see something different in him but it feels like aiming awfully low with a second round pick.

 

[CB Joe]

What is Heard's realistic upside? 4th line C? If he really transforms his offensive game maybe 3rd line C one day, though that seems unlikely. Maybe I'm selling the kid short and maybe they see something different in him but it feels like aiming awfully low with a second round pick.

It was a weak draft and they got an asset that could potentially step in a year or two sooner then most prospects available at that point. Maybe the pick wasn't ideal but it wasn't wasted either.

 

[S E P H]

It was a weak draft and they got an asset that could potentially step in a year or two sooner then most prospects available at that point. Maybe the pick wasn't ideal but it wasn't wasted either.

How can you call a draft a year later weak?

 

[chet1926]

Why no love for Heard? I've read a lot of good things about him.

I don't mind Heard, I just don't like where he was picked. He was at best a 4th or 5th round pick. Even Heard admitted to being surprised when the Avs took him.

You don't take a 3rd or 4th line grinder early in the 2nd rd, when there a lots of top 6 offensive players and solid defensive players still available. Considering some of the players that were available McCabe, McGinn, Frk, Sissons, Thrower, Shore, Bozon, Pelech all of which would have been significantly better picks just due to their upside. Not saying they will all develop but I would rather of had one those guys as our high 2nd pick.

It was a gigantic reach when we have lots of holes that need filling.