Speculation: In search of trophies: Jack Adams, Calder, Lady Byng and Vezina

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,384
31,628
Sporting charts has information on stars. I'll link later, I'm on my phone.

Nice, thanks I found it.

Just as I expected. Varly leads the league in 1st stars (19) and total stars (32).

http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/stats/first-second-third-star-statistics/2013/

1st Stars

Varly - 19
Price - 15
Rask - 14
Lundquist -14
Crosby - 13
Fleury - 12

Total Stars

Varly - 32
Crosby - 31
Rask - 29
Price - 29
Ovechkin - 25
Getzlaf - 25
Lundquist - 24

Funny enough, when your sort the total stars going the other way, the very last name is Patrick Bordeleau. :laugh:
 

henchman21

Mr. Meeseeks
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Feb 24, 2012
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Arthur Staple ‏@StapeNewsday 25m
Vezina -- 1. Varlamov. 2. Rask. 3. Price. 4. Bishop. 5. Bobrovsky. Adams -- 1. Roy. 2. Cooper. 3. Boudreau. 4. Bylsma. 5. Berube.
 

Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,867
32,986
So Varly is getting a lot more love than I was expecting. I thought Rask would be a lock but there's some credible reporters going with Varly. The media doesn't vote on it but it's still nice to see.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,384
31,628
I'm seeing a lot more Varly in 1st for the Vezina from reporters and broadcasters than I thought I would. Unfortunately the GM's vote on it and I have a feeling Rask is more of a sweetheart choice for them for some reason. Maybe not though.
 

zxcvnm

Registered User
Jun 19, 2013
717
230
Remember SammyJankis
Well yea it kinda is. It goes to the player who "exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability."

That has WAY more to do with the amount of PIMS than the amount of points. They have awards for points. O'Reilly with 64 points and 2 PIMS is a slam dunk over a player with 84 points and 18 PIMS.

It is a very strange award. I would think the idea behind it (without knowing what the actual history or intent of it was) is to award it to someone who is simply the most respected player among his peers. Like the guy no hockey player or fan on another team dislikes because he plays the game "the right way." Basically, an award for guys like Martin St. Louis or Pavel Datsyuk who even fans who hate the Lightning (where he won it) or the red wings don't dislike. From that perspective, it seems to me that it's an award that should be voted on by the players.

If that was the intent, it seems to me that neither O'Reilly nor Seguin fit that description. I would think that Matt Duchene would be one of the better candidates in that case.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,326
15,739
So Varly is getting a lot more love than I was expecting. I thought Rask would be a lock but there's some credible reporters going with Varly. The media doesn't vote on it but it's still nice to see.

Ray Emery got a first place vote in the Vezina last year, so I suppose anything is possible.
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,326
15,739
Well yea it kinda is. It goes to the player who "exhibited the best type of sportsmanship and gentlemanly conduct combined with a high standard of playing ability."

That has WAY more to do with the amount of PIMS than the amount of points. They have awards for points. O'Reilly with 64 points and 2 PIMS is a slam dunk over a player with 84 points and 18 PIMS.

PIM totals of the last winners:

2013: St. Louis, 14 PIM 48 GP
2012: Campbell, 6 PIM 82 GP
2011: St. Louis, 12 PIM 77 GP
2010: St. Louis, 12 PIM 82 GP
2009: Datsyuk, 22 PIM 81 GP
2008: Datsyuk, 20 PIM 82 GP
2007: Datsyuk, 20 PIM 79 GP
2006: Datsyuk, 22 PIM 75 GP

Now O'Reilly's low PIMs will probably be enough of a headline grabber to help him get votes if he does eventually win it, but it's not the be all end all of why the award is awarded.
 

Foppa2118

Registered User
Oct 3, 2003
52,384
31,628
PIM totals of the last winners:

2013: St. Louis, 14 PIM 48 GP
2012: Campbell, 6 PIM 82 GP
2011: St. Louis, 12 PIM 77 GP
2010: St. Louis, 12 PIM 82 GP
2009: Datsyuk, 22 PIM 81 GP
2008: Datsyuk, 20 PIM 82 GP
2007: Datsyuk, 20 PIM 79 GP
2006: Datsyuk, 22 PIM 75 GP

Now O'Reilly's low PIMs will probably be enough of a headline grabber to help him get votes if he does eventually win it, but it's not the be all end all of why the award is awarded.

Yea but look at the runners up. Kane had lower last year, but also probably suffered the same issue Seguin will in that his off ice antics are kind of counter intuitive to acting like a gentleman. Even though it's mainly on ice, off ice controversies have to factor in somehow.

Aside from that all the runners up had more PIMS except St Louis in 09 when he had 14 to Datsyuk's 22.

2013 - Kane - 8 PIMS
2012 - Eberle - 11 PIMS
2011 - Lidstrom -20 PIMS
2010 - Richards - 14 PIMS
2009 - St Louis - 14 PIMS
2008 - St Louis - 26 PIMS
2007 - St Louis - 28 PIMS
2006 - Richards - 32 PIMS

In 2007 St Louis had 102 points and 28 PIMS to Datsyuk who won with 87 points and 20 PIMS.

Same in 2006, Richards had 91 points and 32 PIMS to Datsyuk's 87 points and 22 PIMS, and Datsyuk won.

PIMS is the only real stat to go off for acting like a gentleman on the ice. The other part is reputation, and Seguin's can't be better than O'Reilly's.

Putting up offense and playing at a high level should just qualify you for the award, it shouldn't be the deciding factor since offense isn't the point of the award. I don't know what it was for, but Seguin getting a 10 minute misconduct penalty should all but eliminate him from the conversation. Not to mention he still has three more minors than Ryan's flukey broken stick penalty. I just don't see it as being close at all.
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,061
6,159
Denver
burgundy-review.com
The finish the Avs had is going to give them all some extra momentum. Could MacKinnon really win the Calder unanimously? Probably not, someone always has to be the hero.

I'm changing my mind and saying O'Reilly is going to win the Byng. I don't even know who his closest competitor is.
 

Avs_19

Registered User
Jun 28, 2007
84,867
32,986
It would be cool to see O'Reilly win the Lady Byng but it's such a pointless award. We're spending way too much time talking about that one. :laugh:
 

tigervixxxen

Optimism=Delusional
Jul 7, 2013
53,061
6,159
Denver
burgundy-review.com
Nah, it's still an award. Some people argue they are all pointless. It's fun to win awards even if it's just a nice acknowledgement on paper. I know it doesn't lead to anything but nice to see the boys get recognized.

Anyway, the PHWH is asking people to reveal their ballots. Not required but they are RTing them @thePWHA. Probably will see a lot more show up before the deadline tomorrow.

Here is another one, from Chicago. He has Varly as his second choice for Hart.

http://voices.suntimes.com/sports/c...awards-ballot-tricky-after-that/#.U02sxbS9KK0
 
Last edited:

TheStranger

Registered User
Jan 21, 2010
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0
Ottawa, Ontario
Listening to marek vs wyshynski, they said what a lot of others said. Western votes should almost unanimously go to Varlamov since he has no real west competition and east could be spread across Bishop, Rask and Price which could mean a win for Varlamov for Vezina
 

Ceremony

blahem
Jun 8, 2012
113,326
15,739
Didn't we go from 2nd last in the league to 3rd best, not 9th?

Yes but our share of possession has increased two-tenths of a point.

And in fact, reading stuff from more people that discuss advanced stats just really makes me think it's all a crock. "They're only good because the goalie's bailing out the bad defence." Okay. Is th goalie not part of the team? Please.
 

Gigantor The Goalie

Speak for the Goalies
Feb 4, 2012
13,078
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New London
Yes but our share of possession has increased two-tenths of a point.

And in fact, reading stuff from more people that discuss advanced stats just really makes me think it's all a crock. "They're only good because the goalie's bailing out the bad defence." Okay. Is th goalie not part of the team? Please.

The goalie that everyone called the worst goalie last season :laugh:
Wonder what brought about that change...:sarcasm:
 

Lonewolfe2015

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Dec 2, 2007
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Listening to marek vs wyshynski, they said what a lot of others said. Western votes should almost unanimously go to Varlamov since he has no real west competition and east could be spread across Bishop, Rask and Price which could mean a win for Varlamov for Vezina

I've been saying this for weeks now. :laugh:
 

viach

Registered User
Aug 5, 2007
1,635
145
Mark Spector from Sportsnet wrotes his votes for Trophies

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/spectors-phwa/

This kid will lead the league in scoring one day, but for now, he will have to settle for the Calder Trophy, not the Art Ross.

Hope !!! Since Peter the great in 2003 I would love :nod:

:cheers:

peter-forsberg-2003-art-ross-hart-trophies.jpg
 

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