OT: I'll be cheering hard for Marty tonight.

[Lord Stan 2020]

:tearofaneagle:

That was elegant in its simplicity.

I really had no words and sorry for the long post that I finally broke down and let out.

I don't hate marty don't forgive him feel bad that he is such a moron to throw so much away. Yet am happy he is going to struggle and am over him. I wish wasnt picked as captain that is the trigger. If he hadnt I wouldnt have felt much at all. I would have probably been like whatever hes an ahole and moron.

So is no emotion once he loses will rejoice will hope he struggles in future. Dont want him back for no reason. Also doubt if hadnt taken captain I would feel that way on putting him in rafters etc.. Higher standard. He screwed that on a level of 100 out of 10

 

[TheThunderYears]

What a crybaby. This article cements in my mind that the Marty I thought I knew is not who he is- at least not anymore. Like others have said, I'll cheer him again when his jersey is hoisted to the rafters at the forum but certainly not before that.

All that butthurt. And because of that, he turns his back on his teammates and fans. The teammates who are willing to go to war with him and the fans whom have made you rich beyond your wildest dreams. All because of a little butthurt.

I look forward to watching him in the handshake line tonight. I hope the Rangers suffer a Cup Final hangover next year and we end up with a lottery pick. I really hope we get to see the Cup hoisted once again in Tampa while Marty is still puttering in the league.

 

[warlord6]

Unless he gets traded to a contender next year. This was MSL's last real shot at a cup. Pity.

 

[berlin]

It amazes me that he doesn't see how immature and selfish his actions were, he clearly is NOT the person we all thought he was. How the hell anyone can stick up for this guy is beyond me.

 

[Maria]

so who goes in the rafters first, Vinny or Marty??


I love the pacifier idea for his comeback

 

[Cigar City]

St. Louis asked for a trade, he asked to leave his home of 14 years, he asked to leave a place that he admitted Tuesday that "I really, really love" because he no longer could believe in a man who no longer believed in him.

Steve Yzerman believed in Marty so little he:

- Named him Captain, which clearly indicated he wanted him here for the rest of his career.

- Convinced him to stay in Tampa AT LEAST once prior to the "snub".

- Did everything in his power to try to get him to stay with the team after his meltdown.

- Named him to the Olympic Roster when Stamkos couldn't go, even though it was obvious others still did not want him on the team.

- Was so distraught over the debacle that he aged about two years and quit his job as Canada's GM.

This is all on Marty.

I was in middle school and had just moved down from Maine the year we won the cup. I needed a hockey fix and thought, "a hockey team in this weather? I'll give them a shot." I instantly fell in love with this team; especially with #26.

He was the character who defied all of the odds his entire life. Always too small, but never too quiet.

My dad always told me, "be a leader, not a follower" and MSL was the man I watched almost every night who lived that quote. Until this year.

How could a man who is so wise not differentiate between 'TB Steve Yzerman' and 'Canada Steve Yzerman'? Jeff Vinik, Steve Yzerman, and the Tampa Bay Community would have done ANYTHING to keep you on this team, within our power. Instead, you wanted someone to make a political move and play favorites, because you "deserved" to be on Team Canada.

How could you run out on YOUR team, your fans, and your community because of an event in which we had no control?

After all of those nights I watched you defy the politics of sports, after all of those years you worked so hard to be the man everybody said you could not be, you wanted 'Canada SFY' to do something you have always hated, because he works with you in a DIFFERENT organization.

Maybe some day I will forgive you Marty, but as of right now, and at least until you retire, you are not welcome here. The thunder will boo when you return, and you have no one to blame besides yourself.

 

[These Are The Days]

Just throwing it out there guys. Has it occured to us that WE are throwing away Mart's legacy because of what he did? If any of you can give me 3 to 5 VERY GOOD reasons why Marty should have been left off of Team Canada I will apologize. Me personally, I'm ALWAYS the guy who takes one for the team whether I want to or not. You eventually reach a point where you've been disrepected enough as a human being and as a man and you eventually say "no mas". Like I said if you all can think of 3 to 5 VERY GOOD reasons why the leagues scoring leader and still perennial 90 point getter should've been left off. If a man has everything taken from him all he has left is his pride and integrity. You don't take a man like St. Louis who has given more than blood, sweat and tears to this team and leave him off Canada in 2010 and 2014.

Do you realize Yzerman intended St. Louis' last olympic glory to be that pathetic debacle in Torino? Yzerman did it TWICE! What was the logic for doing it in 2010? If you sit here and take it while still being one of the best in the world and the man CARRYING YZERMANS LIGHTNING TEAM on his back while Stamkos was out then you have no respect for youself.

Stop thinking about your own feelings and put yourself in his shoes. You didn't medal in Italy in 2006 and you left embarrassed. Then you sat at home watching your national team win gold on home ice while still on top of your game. You win the leagues scoring title and then carry your team on your back while Yzerman waits for news on your injured teammate so you can be snubbed again so a guy like Kunitz can go because he plays with Crosby. That's ******** guys.

After all he did for us I thought you'd have his back. This isn't about taking your stick and going home because you didn't get your way. This is about being the best in the world and your pride in what you do.

 

[MattM92]

Just throwing it out there guys. Has it occured to us that WE are throwing away Mart's legacy because of what he did? If any of you can give me 3 to 5 VERY GOOD reasons why Marty should have been left off of Team Canada I will apologize. Me personally, I'm ALWAYS the guy who takes one for the team whether I want to or not. You eventually reach a point where you've been disrepected enough as a human being and as a man and you eventually say "no mas". Like I said if you all can think of 3 to 5 VERY GOOD reasons why the leagues scoring leader and still perennial 90 point getter should've been left off. If a man has everything taken from him all he has left is his pride and integrity. You don't take a man like St. Louis who has given more than blood, sweat and tears to this team and leave him off Canada in 2010 and 2014.

Do you realize Yzerman intended St. Louis' last olympic glory to be that pathetic debacle in Torino? Yzerman did it TWICE! What was the logic for doing it in 2010? If you sit here and take it while still being one of the best in the world and the man CARRYING YZERMANS LIGHTNING TEAM on his back while Stamkos was out then you have no respect for youself.

Stop thinking about your own feelings and put yourself in his shoes. You didn't medal in Italy in 2006 and you left embarrassed. Then you sat at home watching your national team win gold on home ice while still on top of your game. You win the leagues scoring title and then carry your team on your back while Yzerman waits for news on your injured teammate so you can be snubbed again so a guy like Kunitz can go because he plays with Crosby. That's ******** guys.

After all he did for us I thought you'd have his back. This isn't about taking your stick and going home because you didn't get your way. This is about being the best in the world and your pride in what you do.

1) Team Canada is the hardest team to make in the world. There were about 25 spots and about 100 guys that could have made it.
2) Babcock has an obsession with size. Babcock was the coach. Yzerman isn't stupid, he knew that Marty wouldn't get the minutes.
3) If Yzerman knows that Babcock isn't gonna give him top 6 minutes (which he didn't, so Yzerman was right), why force St. Louis onto the team just to see him scratched/in a 4th line role? There are players MUCH better suited for those roles.
4) Just because Yzerman was the GM of both teams doesn't mean that he has any obligation to play favorites. He is a very tactical, careful man, he was building a gold medal contender and was building it with complete impartiality.
5) Besides all that, Yzerman made a committee to make roster decisions. Could he have made all the decisions himself? SURE! But he decided to make a committee. Does Yzerman seem like the type of guy that would create a check and balance system like this and then circumvent it for selfish reasons?

If you really want to see what our opinion is on the Team Canada selection, just go back to the other threads. So done talking about this guy already. Some fans still like him, fine. I don't. I don't respect a man who can turn his back on so many people like that. My opinion isn't going to change because a few people I don't know are posting in a hockey forum. You forgive him or you don't, let's leave it at that.

 

[These Are The Days]

Like I said part of life is having your heart ripped out and stepped on. It happened to Marty twice and he chose to do something about him. And after all he did for us I can't blame him nor can I say Yzerman didn't have it coming. You treat your best like the best because they've EARNED it. If you believe Marty deserved to be an Olympian twice more then you understand. Marty will not carry his grudge forever. And when he gives his hall of fame speech he will probably have his own little part for the Lightning like how Kubina did when he retired and went out of his way to personally thank Phil to the press.

 

[DFC]

In order for Yzerman to put MSL on Team Canada, he would have had to vito the entire committee that he set up. Kelly Chase told a story (that I believe came from Ken Holland) saying Yzerman asked for a re-vote after Marty was originally left off, but he refused to overrule his committee in Marty's case where he wouldn't have with another player. It's not in Yzerman's DNA to play those kinds of politics.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Like I said part of life is having your heart ripped out and stepped on. It happened to Marty twice and he chose to do something about him. And after all he did for us I can't blame him nor can I say Yzerman didn't have it coming. You treat your best like the best because they've EARNED it. If you believe Marty deserved to be an Olympian twice more then you understand. Marty will not carry his grudge forever. And when he gives his hall of fame speech he will probably have his own little part for the Lightning like how Kubina did when he retired and went out of his way to personally thank Phil to the press.

You're lumping his Olympic snub into his lightning tenure like they had anything to do with it. They're two totally different organizations and have nothing to do with each other really. Sure Yzerman was the GM of both but he clearly had a small part in selecting the team. Just because he was snubbed doesn't mean the lightning weren't treating him right or Yzerman for that matter.

If you look at the two Olympic teams you clearly see Babcock's opinion was weighed heavier then the GM IMO. If Marty would've never got an Olympic gold then it's not anybody's fault but his own. He was on the team in Italy that disappointed so he had a shot at it at least, there's plenty of other deserving player's who never even got a shot at one.

The lightning organization owes him no apologies for how he was treated in his career. They took a chance on an undersized waiver claim and turned him into a HOFer. They treated him fairly his whole career, got him a Stanley cup and made him an NHL captain. Not sure what else they're supposed to do, fire the GM cause a player got his feelings hurt about getting snubbed?

 

[MattM92]

A mom and a dad get into a fight. The child doesn't really know what it's about, but thinks it'll get worked out. Suddenly, the mom moves out and into another home. Dad is upset and the child is left wondering what went wrong. A short time goes by and suddenly you start getting postcards from mom about how great her new family is and how it's so much better there. Oh, but don't be upset! She raised you until you were 14 before she left. How dare we feel unwanted or betrayed, yet we ended up suffering the most over a feud between mom and dad.

And yes, St. Louis is the mom because he is acting like a *****.

 

[ThunderAlleyNomad]

There are people in this thread who have made the comments previously that maybe there was something else we don't know about besides the snub that caused Marty to ask for the trade. That we shouldn't judge him based on too little information.

Well now we know and we're still being told that we're acting irrationally.

I will never forget what Marty accomplished for this team. But it's not all one-sided either. The Tampa Bay area was very good to him. Could he have made more money elsewhere. Probably, although I remember very clearly that his last signing was panned by quite a few hockey insiders and fanbases alike, so that's not necessarily a given. He never faced intense media scrutiny here and he was unabashedly adored by the fans. He was the guru and everybody looked up to him. He tossed it, stomped on it and then threw it in a dumpster and set the whole mess on fire. And now he wonders why fans are hurt?

 

[These Are The Days]

1) Team Canada is the hardest team to make in the world. There were about 25 spots and about 100 guys that could have made it.
2) Babcock has an obsession with size. Babcock was the coach. Yzerman isn't stupid, he knew that Marty wouldn't get the minutes.
3) If Yzerman knows that Babcock isn't gonna give him top 6 minutes (which he didn't, so Yzerman was right), why force St. Louis onto the team just to see him scratched/in a 4th line role? There are players MUCH better suited for those roles.
4) Just because Yzerman was the GM of both teams doesn't mean that he has any obligation to play favorites. He is a very tactical, careful man, he was building a gold medal contender and was building it with complete impartiality.
5) Besides all that, Yzerman made a committee to make roster decisions. Could he have made all the decisions himself? SURE! But he decided to make a committee. Does Yzerman seem like the type of guy that would create a check and balance system like this and then circumvent it for selfish reasons?

If you really want to see what our opinion is on the Team Canada selection, just go back to the other threads. So done talking about this guy already. Some fans still like him, fine. I don't. I don't respect a man who can turn his back on so many people like that. My opinion isn't going to change because a few people I don't know are posting in a hockey forum. You forgive him or you don't, let's leave it at that.

1) You're spot on and point very well taken. But you mean to tell me Marty isn't one of those 25 people? C'mon man you watched him play every bit as much as I have. You know in your heart he deserves it.

2) Since when was size an issue for Marty? He's been 5 foot nothing his entire career and succeeded at the NHL for over 10 years. What will the Olympics change about it? Yzerman elected Babcock as the coach (justifiably so) and you can spout conspiracy and conflict of interest all you want but it doesn't hold water. And at the same time you can campaign to this coach (without a conflict of interest) that perhaps, JUST MAYBE there's a guy that's 5 foot nothing that'll still be a fit. Saying size is an issue would be like saying Babcock wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings because he's not big enough. If he wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings then he's stupid. Period

3) I fully believe Marty wouldn't gonna gripe about top 6 minutes. He's not that kind of guy. You can rotate him between lines unless there was a strong chemistry and you could still put him on the PP and he probably would've been just fine with it. Marty's a big boy, 92. Babcock can say "You're here for the ride because you earned it but it's not 2006 anymore. I'll play you when I can but my hands are tied" and I'm sure Marty would've understood. But even then, Marty would've been fully capable of handling those minutes. I have no doubt of that.

4) I understand being impartial. Conflicts of interest arise but there is no more conflict of interest trying to give Marty (a player deserving of a spot) a shot than it was to try to give one to Stamkos. It was impartial to hire Babcock as well in my eyes. Sometimes paths cross but it's not about how it looks, it's about what's best. But what tactical, intelligent reason is there to leave off a guy who won the scoring title the year before and had been carrying an entire team on his back since November 11th? Because he's not big enough for Babcock? Because he won't play big minutes? Someone's not gonna play big minutes no matter what. If you want to argue any and all players for why/why not being on the roster then why does Kuntiz deserve a spot? The only player that does less than him in big moments is Joe Thornton. Do you think Kunitz is going to be an Olympian at 38 like Marty was? NO! He wasn't one to begin with in my opinion. He plays well with Crosby and that's pretty much the ONLY reason I can think of why he would've been taken. Don't defend Kuntiz over St. Louis, not that you ever would. But you and I both know who the better of those two are. What does one have that the other doesn't? I'm getting off track and not focusing on your question but when I try to think of reasons to leave him off I come up empty. When nit-pick and over analyze you miss the big picture.

5) Just because you have a room full of people doesn't mean they'll come to a right choice every time. Yzerman is not the type to play politics. But he has the final say on who is/is not on the roster and when you have a guy ON YOUR OWN TEAM that DESERVES to be on there and you don't say anything or do anything for him is the whole reason Marty wanted out. If he has the power of veto then freaking use it. Canada gave this line of bull about "We want to build the best team" OF COURSE YOU'RE BUILDING THE BEST TEAM! A trained chimp could pull names out of a hat and assemble a gold medal roster for Canada. And why Yzerman wanted a committee is beyond me. Maybe to take blame off himself for controversial choice? There IS fine line about being partial. But it's NOT a conflict of interest or partial to have Marty St. Louis on your roster. He's a freaking Hall of Famer that has defied the laws of age. It would be like Shero (if he were still in charge of the Pens and had be been Canadian) assembling the roster built around Crosby. Yzerman played for Babcock but is it a conflict of interest or being partial taking him! Two words: NO WAY! If you can think of a better person to coach team Canada than Babcock then I'm all ears and I'm sure you see where I'm coming from there. Just because Yzerman played for him doesn't make him partial no more than going out of his way for Marty would've been. At least not to me.

All I can say is I feel like Marty deserved to be there just as Marty felt like he deserved to be there and there's no committee or politics in the world that could ever convince me otherwise.

 

[These Are The Days]

You're lumping his Olympic snub into his lightning tenure like they had anything to do with it. They're two totally different organizations and have nothing to do with each other really. Sure Yzerman was the GM of both but he clearly had a small part in selecting the team. Just because he was snubbed doesn't mean the lightning weren't treating him right or Yzerman for that matter.

If you look at the two Olympic teams you clearly see Babcock's opinion was weighed heavier then the GM IMO. If Marty would've never got an Olympic gold then it's not anybody's fault but his own. He was on the team in Italy that disappointed so he had a shot at it at least, there's plenty of other deserving player's who never even got a shot at one.

The lightning organization owes him no apologies for how he was treated in his career. They took a chance on an undersized waiver claim and turned him into a HOFer. They treated him fairly his whole career, got him a Stanley cup and made him an NHL captain. Not sure what else they're supposed to do, fire the GM cause a player got his feelings hurt about getting snubbed?

They're two organizations but the player is the same. You don't think Babcock would want Marty on the Wings? And you're right, the Lightning DON'T have anything to apologize for. He's not mad at the fans or the organization that made him what he is today. He can no longer work for the boss who broke his heart twice. I really do get it. This wasn't about taking his stick and going home. It was about how someone had a chance to do something for him that he DESERVED and it was his last chance to get it and all he got was news that Canada would be holding out for Stamkos.

I'd be heartbroken too and I'd never have another word to say to Yzerman again. Don't know if I would've left TB but any words directed to me by Yzerman would've been responded with "Talk to my agent."

You and I both know how much he gave to this team and to Stevie Y and as for me I can't blame the man for walking way. I can't speak for you but I hope deep down inside you at least thought once upon a time that Marty deserved another shot at glory.

The way Marty left was inexcusable but like I said, I forgave him because I found a greater error in what was done to him than what he did to us. The Lightning and the Olympics are two separate organizations but what other criteria do they have to base Marty on than his performance in the NHL? Your skill and ability will always show up on the scoresheet. That's where it merges and why I do not distinguish one from the other.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

Marty is not the only snub here. My problem isnt the snub or being mad at stevie.

My problem is Captains are supposed to act on a higher standard. We all have people we MUST deal with we don't like be it family boss'es or landlords or even some so called friends.

Marty has a boss canadian team and tampa bay lightning are two separate things.

Marty can try to mix those up together but that is garbage. Wants to hate someone Mike Babcock. Giroux had every reason to be on team just like marty. Thornton was a bigger guy and left off for some scrubs. It happens. Grow up and deal with it.

Stevie had his talks with marty. Releases were made to media to create a tsunami from a puddle. Forcing Steve's hand. I personally wouldn't have minded benching him and letting sit in press box for the rest of the season and would have stuck with Steve.

Once Marty took the captain and accepted that role he became something else entirely. That is the problem I have. Does anyone here think Steve Yzerman loves Mike Babcock? Has anyone ever listened to that guy after games? Does anyone really know Steve at all who thinks the way Mike does and handles business is not offensive to Steve?

Yet Steve swallowed his ego and pride and let things be done I am for one sure Steve has the vote Mike Babcock is not the coach. He didn't thats why he had a committee and others are involved.

I am a lifetime wing fan and I seriously have issues with Mike Babcock and if I worked for him I would probably break his jaw. He is a great coach though is no argument there. Just not someone who wouldn't rub me totally the wrong way even if I was one of his great players.

So Marty became captain that means even if the ship is falling apart you stick it out you buckle down you make it work.


I do agree Marty should have been on Canadian team but I knew when Stamkos went down it was slim to none for his chances. Before that I questioned if he would get picked up. The golden boy got his line or team mates we all knew that was gonna happen. I figured other guys. Once knew babcock was coach well knew smaller guys were screwed. Younger guys were screwed. Older guys were screwed.

I mean Mike was going around league after Steve forced Marty in asking what people other coaches Tort's thought of him. That is fact. He is a small guy hater kind of like a feminist is to a redneck guy lol. It is that bad. You have to earn your cheese if marty had came into this and scored 3-4 goals in first 2 games he woulda gotten some time. Otherwise? Well bench or worse.

That is Mike Babcock and if Marty had any issues it should have been to him. Yet that is missing the point the point is Marty was a captain and that requires compromise, understanding and sacrifice. Sometimes for the greater good. Steve Yzerman was able to do that. (Great leader and captain).

Marty missed that in what it is to be a captain school.

 

[2MinutesforGiraffing]

1)
2) at the same time you can campaign to this coach (without a conflict of interest) that perhaps, JUST MAYBE there's a guy that's 5 foot nothing that'll still be a fit. Saying size is an issue would be like saying Babcock wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings because he's not big enough. If he wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings then he's stupid. Period

...That's exactly what happened. Yzerman campaigned to get him on the team and Babcock refused. When Stamkos couldn't get back in time, and Marty was added, Babcock healthy scratched him or played him limited minutes. Why? Because Babcock didn't want him. That makes Babcock a douchepickle, but it's the truth of the matter. Why would Yzerman overrule his committee to put a guy on the team who wasn't going to be played?

Would Babcock take him on the Red Wings? Dunno, he seems to heavily favor bigger players and make marginal use of talented, smaller guys. Is he stupid for that? Debatable, I suppose, but he's won a lot of games. I don't follow the Red Wings, so I can't answer that confidently.

If you go back, you'll see we discussed all this when it happened and everybody believed Marty deserved a place on the team. Most of us here were pissed and outraged when he wasn't selected. BUT, life isn't fair and Babcock wasn't having him. If Marty wants to get revenge on someone over the 'snub' even after he got his medal, I'd suggest he start in Detroit.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

They're two organizations but the player is the same. You don't think Babcock would want Marty on the Wings? And you're right, the Lightning DON'T have anything to apologize for. He's not mad at the fans or the organization that made him what he is today. He can no longer work for the boss who broke his heart twice. I really do get it. This wasn't about taking his stick and going home. It was about how someone had a chance to do something for him that he DESERVED and it was his last chance to get it and all he got was news that Canada would be holding out for Stamkos.

I'd be heartbroken too and I'd never have another word to say to Yzerman again. Don't know if I would've left TB but any words directed to me by Yzerman would've been responded with "Talk to my agent."

You and I both know how much he gave to this team and to Stevie Y and as for me I can't blame the man for walking way. I can't speak for you but I hope deep down inside you at least thought once upon a time that Marty deserved another shot at glory.

The way Marty left was inexcusable but like I said, I forgave him because I found a greater error in what was done to him than what he did to us. The Lightning and the Olympics are two separate organizations but what other criteria do they have to base Marty on than his performance in the NHL? Your skill and ability will always show up on the scoresheet. That's where it merges and why I do not distinguish one from the other.

No Mike would not want him on the wings. Mike is a size freak like no other if your not 6'2 you cant cut it. Hudler Tatar to name a couple. Filppula seems a pretty reasonable good guy. He will not be the last guy leaving detroit who really has an issue with Mike Babcock.

Cleary had the worst shot percentage of top 6 players in NHL and he resigned him forcing detroit to put Nyquist back in AHL this year.

Go ask any fan of detroit is amazing Mike's love of big guys. Injuries forced the kids in this year otherwise they would all be sitting down in AHL.

Calle Jarnkrok? Detroit will ***** about this for years but was two reasons he was let go one was rumor would go back home but its all about the size. Sheahan showed can play a bit and Calle's days became numbered.

Mike Babcock flat out asked Tort's about Marty St Louis. I get you dont know all the players in the league but this is MSL lmao. Size not noticed Mike babcock.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

1) You're spot on and point very well taken. But you mean to tell me Marty isn't one of those 25 people? C'mon man you watched him play every bit as much as I have. You know in your heart he deserves it.

2) Since when was size an issue for Marty? He's been 5 foot nothing his entire career and succeeded at the NHL for over 10 years. What will the Olympics change about it? Yzerman elected Babcock as the coach (justifiably so) and you can spout conspiracy and conflict of interest all you want but it doesn't hold water. And at the same time you can campaign to this coach (without a conflict of interest) that perhaps, JUST MAYBE there's a guy that's 5 foot nothing that'll still be a fit. Saying size is an issue would be like saying Babcock wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings because he's not big enough. If he wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings then he's stupid. Period

3) I fully believe Marty wouldn't gonna gripe about top 6 minutes. He's not that kind of guy. You can rotate him between lines unless there was a strong chemistry and you could still put him on the PP and he probably would've been just fine with it. Marty's a big boy, 92. Babcock can say "You're here for the ride because you earned it but it's not 2006 anymore. I'll play you when I can but my hands are tied" and I'm sure Marty would've understood. But even then, Marty would've been fully capable of handling those minutes. I have no doubt of that.

4) I understand being impartial. Conflicts of interest arise but there is no more conflict of interest trying to give Marty (a player deserving of a spot) a shot than it was to try to give one to Stamkos. It was impartial to hire Babcock as well in my eyes. Sometimes paths cross but it's not about how it looks, it's about what's best. But what tactical, intelligent reason is there to leave off a guy who won the scoring title the year before and had been carrying an entire team on his back since November 11th? Because he's not big enough for Babcock? Because he won't play big minutes? Someone's not gonna play big minutes no matter what. If you want to argue any and all players for why/why not being on the roster then why does Kuntiz deserve a spot? The only player that does less than him in big moments is Joe Thornton. Do you think Kunitz is going to be an Olympian at 38 like Marty was? NO! He wasn't one to begin with in my opinion. He plays well with Crosby and that's pretty much the ONLY reason I can think of why he would've been taken. Don't defend Kuntiz over St. Louis, not that you ever would. But you and I both know who the better of those two are. What does one have that the other doesn't? I'm getting off track and not focusing on your question but when I try to think of reasons to leave him off I come up empty. When nit-pick and over analyze you miss the big picture.

5) Just because you have a room full of people doesn't mean they'll come to a right choice every time. Yzerman is not the type to play politics. But he has the final say on who is/is not on the roster and when you have a guy ON YOUR OWN TEAM that DESERVES to be on there and you don't say anything or do anything for him is the whole reason Marty wanted out. If he has the power of veto then freaking use it. Canada gave this line of bull about "We want to build the best team" OF COURSE YOU'RE BUILDING THE BEST TEAM! A trained chimp could pull names out of a hat and assemble a gold medal roster for Canada. And why Yzerman wanted a committee is beyond me. Maybe to take blame off himself for controversial choice? There IS fine line about being partial. But it's NOT a conflict of interest or partial to have Marty St. Louis on your roster. He's a freaking Hall of Famer that has defied the laws of age. It would be like Shero (if he were still in charge of the Pens and had be been Canadian) assembling the roster built around Crosby. Yzerman played for Babcock but is it a conflict of interest or being partial taking him! Two words: NO WAY! If you can think of a better person to coach team Canada than Babcock then I'm all ears and I'm sure you see where I'm coming from there. Just because Yzerman played for him doesn't make him partial no more than going out of his way for Marty would've been. At least not to me.

All I can say is I feel like Marty deserved to be there just as Marty felt like he deserved to be there and there's no committee or politics in the world that could ever convince me otherwise.

I promise you this. Marty handled the snub better than Mike Babcock would have handled Stevie over riding the committee and forcing MSL on this team. Mike Babcock is an ******* and would have made the biggest spectacle ever and it would have probably cost the canadians the gold.

I truly believe this so I figure Steve Yzerman would believe it too.

 

[These Are The Days]

...That's exactly what happened. Yzerman campaigned to get him on the team and Babcock refused. When Stamkos couldn't get back in time, and Marty was added, Babcock healthy scratched him or played him limited minutes. Why? Because Babcock didn't want him. That makes Babcock a douchepickle, but it's the truth of the matter. Why would Yzerman overrule his committee to put a guy on the team who wasn't going to be played?

Would Babcock take him on the Red Wings? Dunno, he seems to heavily favor bigger players and make marginal use of talented, smaller guys. Is he stupid for that? Debatable, I suppose, but he's won a lot of games. I don't follow the Red Wings, so I can't answer that confidently.

If you go back, you'll see we discussed all this when it happened and everybody believed Marty deserved a place on the team. Most of us here were pissed and outraged when he wasn't selected. BUT, life isn't fair and Babcock wasn't having him. If Marty wants to get revenge on someone over the 'snub' even after he got his medal, I'd suggest he start in Detroit.

If Babcock is the responsible party and forced Yzerman's hand then he is both an idiot and an *******. Regardless of cause and effect it's all done now. Marty's premature departure may have been for the better anyhow.

I'd been thinking of life after Marty since we signed Johnson and Conacher and they were destroying the AHL to the tune of 28 straight wins. A few years before I had seen Richard Panik going in the 1st round in several mock drafts sometimes as high as 15th and was stoked he fell to us and anxiously followed his progress as well. There was also some kid named Palat who was showing a lot of promise as well and I realized that we were gonna have a VERY serious problem... especially if the (at the time on the Lightning roster) struggling Connolly found his game. But we had all these veteran players atop the roster like Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis and no place to put them.

Meanwhile we had this coach that chewed gum like he belonged on a baseball field, always smiled, was ALWAYS in the same happy relaxed mood and was the kind of guy that would say to the press "Man what game that was right? I'm proud of our guys" after blowing a 4-1 lead and miraculously winning in a shootout. I was mesmerized to see a coach like that.

Now today Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis are gone. That man who gives chewing lessons to cows is our coach, Johnson and Palat are phenomenal 1st liners, Conacher was traded for our franchise goaltender and the kid I thought could be the best out of all of them is the project player.

It all had to happen!

I can't say any more than I have about Marty. I see his side of the story and if I harp on any longer I'm gonna start sounding like an ******* (I'm sure I already have) and give off the impression that I'm trying to convert you guys to my way of thinking.

 

[ThunderAlleyNomad]

If Babcock is the responsible party and forced Yzerman's hand then he is both an idiot and an *******. Regardless of cause and effect it's all done now. Marty's premature departure may have been for the better anyhow.

I'd been thinking of life after Marty since we signed Johnson and Conacher and they were destroying the AHL to the tune of 28 straight wins. A few years before I had seen Richard Panik going in the 1st round in several mock drafts sometimes as high as 15th and was stoked he fell to us and anxiously followed his progress as well. There was also some kid named Palat who was showing a lot of promise as well and I realized that we were gonna have a VERY serious problem... especially if the (at the time on the Lightning roster) struggling Connolly found his game. But we had all these veteran players atop the roster like Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis and no place to put them.

Meanwhile we had this coach that chewed gum like he belonged on a baseball field, always smiled, was ALWAYS in the same happy relaxed mood and was the kind of guy that would say to the press "Man what game that was right? I'm proud of our guys" after blowing a 4-1 lead and miraculously winning in a shootout. I was mesmerized to see a coach like that.

Now today Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis are gone. That man who gives chewing lessons to cows is our coach, Johnson and Palat are phenomenal 1st liners, Conacher was traded for our franchise goaltender and the kid I thought could be the best out of all of them is the project player.

It all had to happen!

I can't say any more than I have about Marty. I see his side of the story and if I harp on any longer I'm gonna start sounding like an ******* (I'm sure I already have) and give off the impression that I'm trying to convert you guys to my way of thinking.

No biggie. Be a pretty boring ass discussion board if everybody agreed on everything all the time. I too am repeating myself on the subject of MSL. Probably is better to just look ahead. It's done and the future looks good for the Lightning.

 

[DFC]

1) You're spot on and point very well taken. But you mean to tell me Marty isn't one of those 25 people? C'mon man you watched him play every bit as much as I have. You know in your heart he deserves it.

2) Since when was size an issue for Marty? He's been 5 foot nothing his entire career and succeeded at the NHL for over 10 years. What will the Olympics change about it? Yzerman elected Babcock as the coach (justifiably so) and you can spout conspiracy and conflict of interest all you want but it doesn't hold water. And at the same time you can campaign to this coach (without a conflict of interest) that perhaps, JUST MAYBE there's a guy that's 5 foot nothing that'll still be a fit. Saying size is an issue would be like saying Babcock wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings because he's not big enough. If he wouldn't take Marty on the Red Wings then he's stupid. Period

3) I fully believe Marty wouldn't gonna gripe about top 6 minutes. He's not that kind of guy. You can rotate him between lines unless there was a strong chemistry and you could still put him on the PP and he probably would've been just fine with it. Marty's a big boy, 92. Babcock can say "You're here for the ride because you earned it but it's not 2006 anymore. I'll play you when I can but my hands are tied" and I'm sure Marty would've understood. But even then, Marty would've been fully capable of handling those minutes. I have no doubt of that.

4) I understand being impartial. Conflicts of interest arise but there is no more conflict of interest trying to give Marty (a player deserving of a spot) a shot than it was to try to give one to Stamkos. It was impartial to hire Babcock as well in my eyes. Sometimes paths cross but it's not about how it looks, it's about what's best. But what tactical, intelligent reason is there to leave off a guy who won the scoring title the year before and had been carrying an entire team on his back since November 11th? Because he's not big enough for Babcock? Because he won't play big minutes? Someone's not gonna play big minutes no matter what. If you want to argue any and all players for why/why not being on the roster then why does Kuntiz deserve a spot? The only player that does less than him in big moments is Joe Thornton. Do you think Kunitz is going to be an Olympian at 38 like Marty was? NO! He wasn't one to begin with in my opinion. He plays well with Crosby and that's pretty much the ONLY reason I can think of why he would've been taken. Don't defend Kuntiz over St. Louis, not that you ever would. But you and I both know who the better of those two are. What does one have that the other doesn't? I'm getting off track and not focusing on your question but when I try to think of reasons to leave him off I come up empty. When nit-pick and over analyze you miss the big picture.

5) Just because you have a room full of people doesn't mean they'll come to a right choice every time. Yzerman is not the type to play politics. But he has the final say on who is/is not on the roster and when you have a guy ON YOUR OWN TEAM that DESERVES to be on there and you don't say anything or do anything for him is the whole reason Marty wanted out. If he has the power of veto then freaking use it. Canada gave this line of bull about "We want to build the best team" OF COURSE YOU'RE BUILDING THE BEST TEAM! A trained chimp could pull names out of a hat and assemble a gold medal roster for Canada. And why Yzerman wanted a committee is beyond me. Maybe to take blame off himself for controversial choice? There IS fine line about being partial. But it's NOT a conflict of interest or partial to have Marty St. Louis on your roster. He's a freaking Hall of Famer that has defied the laws of age. It would be like Shero (if he were still in charge of the Pens and had be been Canadian) assembling the roster built around Crosby. Yzerman played for Babcock but is it a conflict of interest or being partial taking him! Two words: NO WAY! If you can think of a better person to coach team Canada than Babcock then I'm all ears and I'm sure you see where I'm coming from there. Just because Yzerman played for him doesn't make him partial no more than going out of his way for Marty would've been. At least not to me.

All I can say is I feel like Marty deserved to be there just as Marty felt like he deserved to be there and there's no committee or politics in the world that could ever convince me otherwise.

95% of this is ridiculous because you are asking Yzerman to play politics while saying he's "not the type to play politics." That's exactly what putting MSL on the team would have been. And at the end of the day, you can't argue with back-to-back gold medals.

Yzerman fought to get MSL on the team and lost. It's that simple. Had he stepped in for MSL where he didn't for, say, Joe Thornton or, hell, Teddy Purcell, then he can't step in for MSL without it being a case of playing favorites. Took a lot of guts, because he knew the fall out would be bad and he did it anyway.

And then MSL whined his way to New York.

 

[Lord Stan 2020]

]If Babcock is the responsible party and forced Yzerman's hand then he is both an idiot and an *******[/B]. Regardless of cause and effect it's all done now. Marty's premature departure may have been for the better anyhow.

I'd been thinking of life after Marty since we signed Johnson and Conacher and they were destroying the AHL to the tune of 28 straight wins. A few years before I had seen Richard Panik going in the 1st round in several mock drafts sometimes as high as 15th and was stoked he fell to us and anxiously followed his progress as well. There was also some kid named Palat who was showing a lot of promise as well and I realized that we were gonna have a VERY serious problem... especially if the (at the time on the Lightning roster) struggling Connolly found his game. But we had all these veteran players atop the roster like Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis and no place to put them.

Meanwhile we had this coach that chewed gum like he belonged on a baseball field, always smiled, was ALWAYS in the same happy relaxed mood and was the kind of guy that would say to the press "Man what game that was right? I'm proud of our guys" after blowing a 4-1 lead and miraculously winning in a shootout. I was mesmerized to see a coach like that.

Now today Malone, Lecavalier and St. Louis are gone. That man who gives chewing lessons to cows is our coach, Johnson and Palat are phenomenal 1st liners, Conacher was traded for our franchise goaltender and the kid I thought could be the best out of all of them is the project player.

It all had to happen!

I can't say any more than I have about Marty. I see his side of the story and if I harp on any longer I'm gonna start sounding like an ******* (I'm sure I already have) and give off the impression that I'm trying to convert you guys to my way of thinking.

Come over to detroit share the love/hate relationship we have for the man.

I am telling you Art Ross winner? Non Selke non center player under 6 foot? Mike Babcock did not know who Marty St Louis was. I am pretty sure of this lol. Is funny and tragic all mixed in together.

If in the game we played once a year with detroit Marty had have Hat Trick after Hat Trick and lost? He might have recognized him.

He is a vet he shouldnt have had to ask other coaches etc.. what they thought of MSL.

So good debate you wont change my mind I know who the idiot was on this situation I have had to deal with him I think 9 years or so now. I am a Michigan Fan u of m really dont want him manning that ship either but is preferable so dont need to ever see another press conference with him and blaishell is moved up from grand rapids at all. This is a guy who can win but don't mind moving on anytime myself.

P.S. What said about tantrums spectacles etc..?? Yeah it would have gotten ugly for not just a year but forever. Mike is not a guy to keep his mouth shut. He would have trashed Stevie hey he might have gotten fired for that the owner treats or thinks of Steve as a son. If only lol.

 

[DFC]

Screw it. If Marty's such an unprofessional (baby) that he reacted like this? It was part of his personality all along. Better off without a guy like that.

 

[Phil2]

what's sad is, he chose the Rangers as ''cup favorites''


I highly doubt the Rangers will even sniff the Stanley cup in the next couple of years,(no 1st round pick for the next two years) they have to resign a bunch of RFAs/Stralman

also the fact that St.Louis will be 39 in barely a month lol

also if you look at the rest of the EC, Tampa Bay are on the rise, Boston/Pittsburgh will still be there, Caps/Hurricanes/Devils should all be better,there's also Philly/Montreal etc)


still don't know why he chose the Rangers as to win the SC lol

I believe that next year Tampa Bay with or without STL will have better chances at winning the SC compared to the Rangers lol