If you could make a realistic trade who would you bring in?

[golffuul]

I said last year the smart play was to trade Mantha at the deadline.
Why? Because I didn't really see him as a future piece and I thought his trade value was never, ever, ever going to be higher.
1) He was in the midst of his most productive year.
2) The team that bought him could have the rights to lock him up for a long time, or for 3-4 years.

Now we're looking at Mantha with 5 goals and 9 points through 21 games. That's less than a 20G 40PT pace. He's been benched once.
What's his value like now?

Probably DeBrusk and Gryzelck or a prospect/draft pick, depending on what we send along with Mantha.

Mind you, this is just the value you're going to get. Not saying that Boston is the best we can do.

Mantha's 26 and I doubt we will re-sign him when his contract is up, which means he is not part of the future of the franchise, in my opinion. If he had shown an effort level worthy of the contract he received, instead of being another Abdelkader, I might think differently. But he hasn't shown that he can self motivate and so even though his skills are good, and he might play better for another team...we aren't going to get "immediate" value for him that will help our team in the next year or two. So our best bet is to get someone younger who either has soured on another team after playing well in prior seasons (DeBrusk), or work on getting a high-grade prospect from a contending team, like Liam Foudy from Columbus. Or maybe go after Konecny from Philly.

There are options, and you have to think Yzerman has to consider all of them, depending on whether the player has the right fit for the kind of team we want to become.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Probably DeBrusk and Gryzelck or a prospect/draft pick, depending on what we send along with Mantha.

Mind you, this is just the value you're going to get. Not saying that Boston is the best we can do.

Mantha's 26 and I doubt we will re-sign him when his contract is up, which means he is not part of the future of the franchise, in my opinion. If he had shown an effort level worthy of the contract he received, instead of being another Abdelkader, I might think differently. But he hasn't shown that he can self motivate and so even though his skills are good, and he might play better for another team...we aren't going to get "immediate" value for him that will help our team in the next year or two. So our best bet is to get someone younger who either has soured on another team after playing well in prior seasons (DeBrusk), or work on getting a high-grade prospect from a contending team, like Liam Foudy from Columbus. Or maybe go after Konecny from Philly.

There are options, and you have to think Yzerman has to consider all of them, depending on whether the player has the right fit for the kind of team we want to become.

I read Konecky was a healthy scratch for PHI iirc. What's the deal with him? Just slumping? Lazy? Injured? Something else? RHS, young RW, top6 production etc., small, very lightweight. How much do you guesstimate his cost to be?

 

[golffuul]

I read Konecky was a healthy scratch for PHI iirc. What's the deal with him? Just slumping? Lazy? Injured? Something else? RHS, young RW, top6 production etc., small, very lightweight. How much do you guesstimate his cost to be?

Depends on his value to Philly and Konecny's interest in staying there. I would love to pursue a 1 to 1 with Mantha if it looks like both players simply want a change of scenery.

 

[Henkka]

I’m just not sure what Mantha is anymore. And the longer he remains an enigma, the more I believe you have to start thinking you have to trade him for something, before he just leaves via Free Agency.

I would wait over 2022 draft.

If we don't get a legit center from 2021 or 2022 drafts, then Mantha could go in a center trade. After 2022 draft, he has 2 years left of his contract, and it's also said that then trade values are higher, if there's that another year.

 

[golffuul]

I would wait over 2022 draft.

If we don't get a legit center from 2021 or 2022 drafts, then Mantha could go in a center trade. After 2022 draft, he has 2 years left of his contract, and it's also said that then trade values are higher, if there's that another year.

That's fair. I'm definitely not against waiting for another coach to see if that helps him any and then moving him. I just don't want us to lose any more value on him. We can, potentially, justify his decline on us being a bad team and Blashill not necessarily being the right coach for him. But if we get a better coach and he continues to decline, then his value will be in the tank and we'd be lucky to get more than a draft pick for him while still having to retain salary.

 

[YpsiWings]

I would wait over 2022 draft.

If we don't get a legit center from 2021 or 2022 drafts, then Mantha could go in a center trade. After 2022 draft, he has 2 years left of his contract, and it's also said that then trade values are higher, if there's that another year.

If Detroit doesn’t get a legit center prospect in the next two drafts then something went horribly wrong. At that point you would have to restart the rebuild and the Wings are the new Sabres/Oilers, but even worse due to no McDavid/Draisaitl/Eichel.

I hope Yzerman is too smart and talented for that to happen, but damn that is a scary notion. This rebuild seems to be taking forever, and it has more left than I previously thought.

 

[Henkka]

If Detroit doesn’t get a legit center prospect in the next two drafts then something went horribly wrong. At that point you would have to restart the rebuild and the Wings are the new Sabres/Oilers, but even worse due to no McDavid/Draisaitl/Eichel.

I hope Yzerman is too smart and talented for that to happen, but damn that is a scary notion. This rebuild seems to be taking forever, and it has more left than I previously thought.

It will happen if we draft 4th overall again, twice, and best centers are pulled before our pick. Top2 pick in either draft secures a Center.

2021 - Eklund or Beniers (not sold on Kent Johnson, if he is a winger for Beniers)
2022 - Wright or Lambert (or Savoie)

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

It will happen if we draft 4th overall again, twice, and best centers are pulled before our pick. Top2 pick in either draft secures a Center.

2021 - Eklund or Beniers (not sold on Kent Johnson, if he is a winger for Beniers)
2022 - Wright or Lambert (or Savoie)

I won't be mad if we draft 2nd overall in 2022 or even as far back as 4th in 2021. I think this year's draft the value of #1 to #5 are very close to equivalent.

That said, I think at this point I'm for trading Mantha for a pick and a player coming back that's a pending UFA.

I can see teams in the North division looking to add a player like Mantha. Montreal and Edmonton would be good fits.
What could each team offer?

We'd have to take Loui Ericksson back from Vancouver to make any moves. I also don't think that Mantha moves the needle for that team much but they do need another legit top 6 winger.
What could we get from Vancouver?

 

[SirloinUB]

I won't be mad if we draft 2nd overall in 2022 or even as far back as 4th in 2021. I think this year's draft the value of #1 to #5 are very close to equivalent.

That said, I think at this point I'm for trading Mantha for a pick and a player coming back that's a pending UFA.

I can see teams in the North division looking to add a player like Mantha. Montreal and Edmonton would be good fits.
What could each team offer?

We'd have to take Loui Ericksson back from Vancouver to make any moves. I also don't think that Mantha moves the needle for that team much but they do need another legit top 6 winger.
What could we get from Vancouver?

I feel like we'd be selling low on Mantha.

At the same time, Ive been looking for more from him for years. Last year he seemed to be breaking out but injuries kind of stalled that. Ultimately, I think we should still be patient with him. I truly believe even if he doesn't get better, he won't get worse so im willing to wait and see. One thing that gets overlooked is the fact that most of our guys went an entire year without playing meaningful games. That's tough to come back from.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Eichel.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I feel like we'd be selling low on Mantha.

At the same time, Ive been looking for more from him for years. Last year he seemed to be breaking out but injuries kind of stalled that. Ultimately, I think we should still be patient with him. I truly believe even if he doesn't get better, he won't get worse so im willing to wait and see. One thing that gets overlooked is the fact that most of our guys went an entire year without playing meaningful games. That's tough to come back from.

I feel like the longer we hold onto Mantha that we'll be selling even lower. Yzerman has shown in the past that he knows when to cut his losses, like when he got rid of Drouin for Sergachev when it appeared that Drouin wasn't going to tow the line in Tampa.

Will I be bitter if Mantha goes to Montreal and finally scores 30? Not really because I doubt he'll ever hit that mark with Detroit. And there isn't anyone on this team that looks to have good chemistry with Mantha anymore. Larkin looks better with Fabbri on his wing than Mantha.

 

[SirloinUB]

I feel like the longer we hold onto Mantha that we'll be selling even lower. Yzerman has shown in the past that he knows when to cut his losses, like when he got rid of Drouin for Sergachev when it appeared that Drouin wasn't going to tow the line in Tampa.

Will I be bitter if Mantha goes to Montreal and finally scores 30? Not really because I doubt he'll ever hit that mark with Detroit. And there isn't anyone on this team that looks to have good chemistry with Mantha anymore. Larkin looks better with Fabbri on his wing than Mantha.

Ehh I guess I just disagree.

I really don't think Mantha's value will get worse. Who knows though, I could be wrong but with his ability and what we've seen from him previously, his current 0.42 points/game and 19.5 goals/82 game pace is the absolute floor for this guy. On a per game basis he is literally having his worst season since his 60 game rookie year in 2016/2017. His skills and physical ability haven't regressed so on a performance basis I can only see him improving from here, even if he never exceeds his per game production from last season. Again, with a year without meaningful games I really believe we'd be selling low if he is shipped out now.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Ehh I guess I just disagree.

I really don't think Mantha's value will get worse. Who knows though, I could be wrong but with his ability and what we've seen from him previously, his current 0.42 points/game and 19.5 goals/82 game pace is the absolute floor for this guy. On a per game basis he is literally having his worst season since his 60 game rookie year in 2016/2017. His skills and physical ability haven't regressed so on a performance basis I can only see him improving from here, even if he never exceeds his per game production from last season. Again, with a year without meaningful games I really believe we'd be selling low if he is shipped out now.

That's what you use as the selling point.

Someone is going to look at him and think they can fix him. Guys like Mantha and Drouin make millions a year because there's GMs that think they can fix guys like them.

Mantha at minimum is going to get a 1st and a B+ prospect or 2nd/3rd line player.

 

[SirloinUB]

That's what you use as the selling point.

Someone is going to look at him and think they can fix him. Guys like Mantha and Drouin make millions a year because there's GMs that think they can fix guys like them.

Mantha at minimum is going to get a 1st and a B+ prospect or 2nd/3rd line player.

To your point, any GM acquiring him would have to believe he has more to offer but at the end of the day I just don't see how its not selling low.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

To your point, any GM acquiring him would have to believe he has more to offer but at the end of the day I just don't see how its not selling low.

It's plain to see that he has more to offer. He flashed it in the 2nd half of the 18-19 season and when he was healthy in the 19-20 season.

If he were scoring at a 30+ goal clip for us he wouldn't be discussed as potential trade bait.

 

[19 for president]

I definitely think Mantha could be the surprise move this year. With our current rebuild timeline, he probably ages out before we are competing, playoffs yes, cup contender probably not. He isn't a high motor player, which I think may eventually irk Stevie. It'd be fine if Mantha was at least really good defensively ala Feds, but he isn't high motor there either.

With that said, I really doubt Stevie sells him for a pick (unless its like top 5 at the draft) or sells him low. We have no need to trade Mantha. Yes he is having a disappointing season, but even at this level you aren't likely to re-draft that at a 20-30 overall, and if he picks it up and delivers at the 30g pace we all know he has the skills too, then you definitely won't get that with a low 1st return.

If he deals him in season I expect it to be 1 for 1 or a mix of younger prospects or players that are closer to the NHL. Also keep in mind that Stevie is already advocating to push the draft back because he doesn't feel like they've had enough eval of players, so I can almost guarantee he isn't going to deal a known commodity like Mantha for an extra crapshooty pick.

 

[SirloinUB]

I definitely think Mantha could be the surprise move this year. With our current rebuild timeline, he probably ages out before we are competing, playoffs yes, cup contender probably not. He isn't a high motor player, which I think may eventually irk Stevie. It'd be fine if Mantha was at least really good defensively ala Feds, but he isn't high motor there either.

With that said, I really doubt Stevie sells him for a pick (unless its like top 5 at the draft) or sells him low. We have no need to trade Mantha. Yes he is having a disappointing season, but even at this level you aren't likely to re-draft that at a 20-30 overall, and if he picks it up and delivers at the 30g pace we all know he has the skills too, then you definitely won't get that with a low 1st return.

If he deals him in season I expect it to be 1 for 1 or a mix of younger prospects or players that are closer to the NHL. Also keep in mind that Stevie is already advocating to push the draft back because he doesn't feel like they've had enough eval of players, so I can almost guarantee he isn't going to deal a known commodity like Mantha for an extra crapshooty pick.

Bang on. If a contenders 1st and an okay prospect is all we can get, what are the chances you actually replace mantha with a useful asset in the long run?

Im not opposed to trading Mantha I just think we should give him time to really get going before executing such a move.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Love mantha and still think he can turn it around but i been saying for over a year hes likely a goner at some point with all the prospects coming with larkin/bert/mantha/zadina that leaves 2 spots in the top 6 (no im not forgetting Fabbri)

Still think hes gonna explode at some point but i cant help but think we can get a solid deal from montreal? French local kid they been drooling for years , locked up at a reasonable price + since were in the same division we can demand a huge return

Id push for 2022 1st and hope with the retun of tb,bos etc... they miss the playoffs ... id settle for 2021 if need be but id ask for like an extra mid prospect or 3rd if possible

K tried this on the trade machine on cap friendly got approved dont know if id do it cause i got leaned towards luke tuch and guhle a few times but got approved and went with this for now


1st rd pick 2021
Caufield
Struble
Byron

For

mantha 50% off rest of this season
glendening 50% off rest of this season
Turgeon

Whenever yzerman pulls the trigger on mantha (if he does) itll be when hes on a roll and his values sky high , like i said though marc bergevin’s probably desperate and willing to make a bold move before the season ends

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Love mantha and still think he can turn it around but i been saying for over a year hes likely a goner at some point with all the prospects coming with larkin/bert/mantha/zadina that leaves 2 spots in the top 6 (no im not forgetting Fabbri)

Still think hes gonna explode at some point but i cant help but think we can get a solid deal from montreal? French local kid they been drooling for years , locked up at a reasonable price + since were in the same division we can demand a huge return

Id push for 2022 1st and hope with the retun of tb,bos etc... they miss the playoffs ... id settle for 2021 if need be but id ask for like an extra mid prospect or 3rd if possible

K tried this on the trade machine on cap friendly got approved dont know if id do it cause i got leaned towards luke tuch and guhle a few times but got approved and went with this for now


1st rd pick 2021
Caufield
Struble
Byron

For

mantha 50% off rest of this season
glendening 50% off rest of this season
Turgeon

Whenever yzerman pulls the trigger on mantha (if he does) itll be when hes on a roll and his values sky high , like i said though marc bergevin’s probably desperate and willing to make a bold move before the season ends

Are teams allowed to retain on just 1 season out of several seasons on a contract? I didn't think they could. (Always thought it was all the years or none)

 

[TCNorthstars]

Are teams allowed to retain on just 1 season out of several seasons on a contract? I didn't think they could. (Always thought it was all the years or none)

Pretty sure the retention would have to be for the rest of the contract.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Pretty sure the retention would have to be for the rest of the contract.

Thanks for confirming my thoughts. I wouldn't mind if they did change that in the next CBA, it'd make for some very interesting/creative maneuverability b/w teams & very likely increase trades (who doesn't love trades?)...except for nervous GM's, but an NHL GM chair is "no place for a nervous person" (Mickeyism).

We could see huge shifts of temporary power for 1-2 playoff seasons (for example) & make a pretender a contender, or a contender a favorite. The balancing act from the swinging pendulums would be fun to watch with SY at the helm.

 

[SirloinUB]

Pretty sure the retention would have to be for the rest of the contract.

Correct

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

Are teams allowed to retain on just 1 season out of several seasons on a contract? I didn't think they could. (Always thought it was all the years or none)

Honestly im not 100% sure but i think you can do just for the rest of the year , if someone was getting mantha at under 3 yearly price would be way more

 

[simonedvinsson]

not sure how realistic it would be, but i'd like to see blashill trade yevgeny svechnikov in for frans nielsen.

 

[Hockeyfannnn91]

K if in fact we would have to retain 50% for mantha for full contract heres a revamped one if mtl really wants to go for it (tried it on trade machine and says it would work)

Mantha
Ryan 50% retained
Merrill

For

1st rd
Caufield
Struble
Byron
Armia

Mtl basically replaces byron and armia with ryan and mantha for their cup run , they get rid of byron’s 3+ salary for next two years ... yzerman keeps him for veteran presence with all the ufa’s+ qualifies for expansion draft (might be moveable if yzerman retains salary later on)

Armia can be flipped at the deadline or just let go at seasons end, merrill gets added for depth for the playoffs and replaces romanov/mete if the kids struggle during the playoffs