Line Combos: If Marleau plays in the top nine, which forward from 16/17 Leafs is pushed down?

[biotk]

I don't see why Martin has to play all 82 games.

I also don't think Hyman has the stamina to play his style for all 82 games either because he plays so hard every shift.

Both played 82 last year, and will again unless injured. Hyman didn't seem to run out of steam last year, and played well in the playoffs. If he is on the 4th line, as is the case with your scenario, he would receive less ice time, so the idea that he wouldn't have the stamina seems odd. As for Martin, Babs believes that he reduces the amount of abuse Matthews, Nylander, Marner etc take when they are on the ice. He will be playing, period.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Post a link ...

Are you trying to tell me Matthews set Hyman up in the slot 53 times last season, I don't recall that happening once? lol I call BS on those stats lol

It's true.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-wingers-best-fit-play-auston-matthews

Overall this season, Matthews has set Hyman up for 53 high danger chances that Hyman has put on net at five-on-five, the third-highest mark in the entire league after Connor McDavid and Matthews. Of those 53 high danger shots, Hyman has converted four of them. Considering that the expected shooting percentage from that area is 22.8 per cent, scoring on just 7.5 per cent of them is an incredible waste of opportunity.

If Hyman had converted on that 22%, he'd have scored 12 goals instead of four from those chances, and Matthews assists would been brought up by 8, giving him 77 points. Possibly more given that this article was written on March 18th and the Leafs still had 13 games left.

Fact is, Hyman has terrible hands and offensive instinct. He can hustle all he wants but if he continues to botch chances at the rate he currently does, not even Babs will be able to shelter him for long. It's just too many opportunities missed by him.

 

[Mr Hockey]

It's true.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-wingers-best-fit-play-auston-matthews



If Hyman had converted on that 22%, he'd have scored 12 goals instead of four from those chances, and Matthews assists would been brought up by 8, giving him 77 points. Possibly more given that this article was written on March 18th and the Leafs still had 13 games left.

Fact is, Hyman has terrible hands and offensive instinct. He can hustle all he wants but if he continues to botch chances at the rate he currently does, not even Babs will be able to shelter him for long. It's just too many opportunities missed by him.

It's flawed stats ... I am struggling to even remember a Matthews assist to Hyman, Brown or Willie? maybe my brain is fried ... dunno lol

 

[TML Dynasty]

It's true.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-wingers-best-fit-play-auston-matthews



If Hyman had converted on that 22%, he'd have scored 12 goals instead of four from those chances, and Matthews assists would been brought up by 8, giving him 77 points. Possibly more given that this article was written on March 18th and the Leafs still had 13 games left.

Fact is, Hyman has terrible hands and offensive instinct. He can hustle all he wants but if he continues to botch chances at the rate he currently does, not even Babs will be able to shelter him for long. It's just too many opportunities missed by him.

Wow that's crazy! I thought he was an offensive black hole before I saw this.....but this is way worse than I thought. Bring on Marleau!

 

[PuckMagi]

Both played 82 last year, and will again unless injured. Hyman didn't seem to run out of steam last year, and played well in the playoffs. If he is on the 4th line, as is the case with your scenario, he would receive less ice time, so the idea that he wouldn't have the stamina seems odd. As for Martin, Babs believes that he reduces the amount of abuse Matthews, Nylander, Marner etc take when they are on the ice. He will be playing, period.

I think Hyman did run out of gas in the second half of the season.

Though he did turn it back on for the playoffs though.

Martin is certainly capable of playing all 82 games... but I don't think we need him to play in every game. If we don't need a fighter or big hits or just that intimidation factor, Leivo would probably be a much better option. I don't think sitting Leivo for the whole year is a good idea.

 

[Menzinger]

Though as Matthews most common linemate it should be expected that Hyman has the most assists on his goals.

 

[saltming]

Though as Matthews most common linemate it should be expected that Hyman has the most assists on his goals.

That's the point, Hyman's job is to get Matthews the puck. That's part of why that line was dominant last year.

 

[Trapper]

That's the point, Hyman's job is to get Matthews the puck. That's part of why that line was dominant last year.

Not just get Matthews the puck but get anyone the puck.
Keep the pressure on, maintain zone time and force the D to battle.
If you are just going to dump the puck (because using skill to gain the zone doesn't work all night/all game) and have no pressure, it's easy for the other team to move it out quickly.
You can play D all night if nobody if forechecking you or taking the body. You've made it easy on them.

 

[Polaris1010]

That's the point, Hyman's job is to get Matthews the puck. That's part of why that line was dominant last year.

That Matthews line was good. But it wasn't dominant last season IMHO.

That line, that was all Matthews.

If he did not score 40 goals in his rookie season, they no one would think of that being a dominant line.

To me, to be a dominant offensive line in the NHL, they have to be a threat to score on every single shift. Only Matthews was scoring. Hyman did not score much, neither did Nylander with Matthews 5 on 5.

Marleau replacing Hyman will be a definite upgrade for the entire line.

That is other reason why I would put Nylander on another line. Get someone who is more willing to drive the net and try score more. Can we see a JVR - Matthews - Marleau line?

 

[LeafingTheWay]

That Matthews line was good. But it wasn't dominant last season IMHO.

That line, that was all Matthews.

If he did not score 40 goals in his rookie season, they no one would think of that being a dominant line.

To me, to be a dominant offensive line in the NHL, they have to be a threat to score on every single shift. Only Matthews was scoring. Hyman did not score much, neither did Nylander with Matthews 5 on 5.

Marleau replacing Hyman will be a definite upgrade for the entire line.

That is other reason why I would put Nylander on another line. Get someone who is more willing to drive the net and try score more. Can we see a JVR - Matthews - Marleau line?

Nylander improved almost every line mates' scoring chances including Matthews. Unfortunately for Nylander this season he experienced an unlucky 5v5 oish% but recovered in the 2nd half (which is the reason for him leading the team in pts 2nd half). You should see Nylander being neck in neck with Matthews for points lead next season IMO.

Also I do think Leivo is someone we should give an opportunity to, hopefully he shows up big in the training camp and preseason. He reminds me a little of Stone.

 

[Polaris1010]

Nylander improved almost every line mates' scoring chances including Matthews. Unfortunately for Nylander this season he experienced an unlucky 5v5 oish% but recovered in the 2nd half (which is the reason for him leading the team in pts 2nd half). You should see Nylander being neck in neck with Matthews for points lead next season IMO.

Also I do think Leivo is someone we should give an opportunity to, hopefully he shows up big in the training camp and preseason. He reminds me a little of Stone.

Agree, I hope so.

One thing I think might be overlooked, is that Nylander's two centers in total got over 70 goals. Since he played the power play on the league second best power play, he will ring up a lot of points.

Nylander will either be a big star, or just a better version of Tim Connolly.

He's still a kid. The success could go straight to his head. Then it's all over!

 

[7even]

Apparently I can't vote (?) but it would be Hyman.
If Babs wants Martin in the lineup, I'd move Martin to the RW side.

I really see this as temporary until a move is made involving other winger(s).

Only the ELITE VETERAN posters get to vote in the prestigious arena that is HF polls.

 

[meefer]

Gawd, Hyman takes an awful lot of abuse here.

 

[Nithoniniel]

If Hyman had converted on that 22%, he'd have scored 12 goals instead of four from those chances, and Matthews assists would been brought up by 8, giving him 77 points. Possibly more given that this article was written on March 18th and the Leafs still had 13 games left.

Fact is, Hyman has terrible hands and offensive instinct. He can hustle all he wants but if he continues to botch chances at the rate he currently does, not even Babs will be able to shelter him for long. It's just too many opportunities missed by him.

And this is what irks me. It's pretty much exactly the same situation that Kadri had two seasons ago, though a bit more extreme. With Kadri it was proof that he's bound to see his numbers go up, but with Hyman - a much less popular player - it's proof of how terrible he is.

Another point, not even prime Thornton pushed his wingers this high up in their high-danger chances. Hyman isn't only up there because Matthews is constantly setting him up. He's also up there because he's really good at finding soft spots in front of the net and getting to the puck first.

I showed a couple of months back that Hyman has a history of being an effective shooter, who tends to have a much higher sh% than average for that league, in large due to how effective he is at getting to high scoring chances and finishing them.

With popular players like Kadri and Nylander, things like these are proof that they'll see their numbers go up. With Hyman it's instead proof that he sucks, even though he's got arguably a better case than either of them.

 

[Mess]

Gawd, Hyman takes an awful lot of abuse here.

Not by his coach, who really matters here, as he controls the situation.

Hyman is a valuable member of the Leafs, and makes any line he is on more effective through his work ethic shift after shift.

That said Marleau at > $6 mil is not here to be a role player, but a leader and offensive threat, and most likely pushes Hyman down the line-up.

 

[Magic Man]

I think normally we would be pretty happy with the progress of a player like Hyman. He just came in with a rookie class that also included Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Brown and Zaitsev. So, he hasn't received the fan fare he normally would have.

 

[Menzinger]

That's the point, Hyman's job is to get Matthews the puck. That's part of why that line was dominant last year.

Sure but the point is, switch Hymans icetime with another winger and they'd also have the most assists for Matthews.

What I'm getting at is the fact that's hyman has plenty of assists on Matthews goals isn't proof in of itself that he's the best man for job.

The Leafs brought in a better player with Marleau and he will push hyman down the lineup to a role better suited for him

 

[Diatomic]

Should be hyman easily

 

[saltming]

Sure but the point is, switch Hymans icetime with another winger and they'd also have the most assists for Matthews.

What I'm getting at is the fact that's hyman has plenty of assists on Matthews goals isn't proof in of itself that he's the best man for job.

The Leafs brought in a better player with Marleau and he will push hyman down the lineup to a role better suited for him

Is Hyman the best player for the job? Not sure but he is really good at it. Also as stated by others his low sh% is unsustainable, it should move back to average.

I really like the idea of Marleau Kadri Komo
That line will be Babcock's 1st line imo

 

[Menzinger]

Is Hyman the best player for the job? Not sure but he is really good at it. Also as stated by others his low sh% is unsustainable, it should move back to average.

I really like the idea of Marleau Kadri Komo
That line will be Babcock's 1st line imo

While I can see the attraction of putting together a line like that I don't think Marleau signed with the Leafs without being told he gets to play on a line with some of the team's stars (namely Matthews).

 

[saltming]

While I can see the attraction of putting together a line like that I don't think Marleau signed with the Leafs without being told he gets to play on a line with some of the team's stars (namely Matthews).

If he came here to win a cup I think he would play where ever was best for that goal.
Marleau Kadri Komo
Hyman Matthews Nylander
JVR Bozak Marner
Martin Moore Brown
That's a tough team to play against. 3 legit scoring lines. 2 of which are good defensively too.
Of course some trades could change things up. I would like to see Kapanen in the lineup but without a trade I see that lineup to start the season as solid all around.

Edit: Marleau gets ice time on the pp with Matthews and Nylander
1st pp Marleau Matthews Nylander
2nd pp JVR Bozak/Kadri Marner

Ultimately I would like to see him play with Marner as I think that will bring back the Thornton Marleau chemistry back.

 

[Kiwi]

And this is what irks me. It's pretty much exactly the same situation that Kadri had two seasons ago, though a bit more extreme. With Kadri it was proof that he's bound to see his numbers go up, but with Hyman - a much less popular player - it's proof of how terrible he is.

Another point, not even prime Thornton pushed his wingers this high up in their high-danger chances. Hyman isn't only up there because Matthews is constantly setting him up. He's also up there because he's really good at finding soft spots in front of the net and getting to the puck first.

I showed a couple of months back that Hyman has a history of being an effective shooter, who tends to have a much higher sh% than average for that league, in large due to how effective he is at getting to high scoring chances and finishing them.

With popular players like Kadri and Nylander, things like these are proof that they'll see their numbers go up. With Hyman it's instead proof that he sucks, even though he's got arguably a better case than either of them.

Hyman's sh% is a funny one for me

He gets into high danger areas and it's almost unthinkable that a guy could get that unlucky again
He doesn't have great hands in close which could certainly effect him sh% wise though
He's also a rookie playing his first full season which could also effect his offensive efficiency as well

I think he will be better but he's hard to predict
Average to just below would be my bet if he stays with Matthews (which I think will happen)

Kadri is streaky with an average shot so his numbers are pretty prone to fluctuations but I do expect Nylander to come up some

 

[Menzinger]

If he came here to win a cup I think he would play where ever was best for that goal.
Marleau Kadri Komo
Hyman Matthews Nylander
JVR Bozak Marner
Martin Moore Brown
That's a tough team to play against. 3 legit scoring lines. 2 of which are good defensively too.
Of course some trades could change things up. I would like to see Kapanen in the lineup but without a trade I see that lineup to start the season as solid all around.

Edit: Marleau gets ice time on the pp with Matthews and Nylander
1st pp Marleau Matthews Nylander
2nd pp JVR Bozak/Kadri Marner

Ultimately I would like to see him play with Marner as I think that will bring back the Thornton Marleau chemistry back.

The issue though is, whomever he replaces goes down to the 4th line.

He's probably going to be more effective in a sheltered role, meaning the Marner line would make sense, but then what to do with JVR becomes an issue. I don't think at his age he'd be good with Kadri since that's the toughest usage of all forward lines and I also suspect management will want him to be able to put up higher offensive numbers to help justify that high caphit of his.

So I think baring any major multi line shakeups Hymans spot seems to be the most likely destination.

But we shall see I suppose what happens.

 

[saltming]

The issue though is, whomever he replaces goes down to the 4th line.

He's probably going to be more effective in a sheltered role, meaning the Marner line would make sense, but then what to do with JVR becomes an issue. I don't think at his age he'd be good with Kadri since that's the toughest usage of all forward lines and I also suspect management will want him to be able to put up higher offensive numbers to help justify that high caphit of his.

So I think baring any major multi line shakeups Hymans spot seems to be the most likely destination.

But we shall see I suppose what happens.

"Even if he doesn't score goals, he can skate," Babcock said, as reported by Nick Cotsonika of NHL.com. "He can play against the best people and do it right every single night." "... Have you seen him skate?"

The bolded makes me feel Babcock sees Marleau going head to head with the best like he did with Kadri

Forgot the link
https://www.thescore.com/news/1328186

 

[PromisedLand]

It's true.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/maple-leafs-wingers-best-fit-play-auston-matthews



If Hyman had converted on that 22%, he'd have scored 12 goals instead of four from those chances, and Matthews assists would been brought up by 8, giving him 77 points. Possibly more given that this article was written on March 18th and the Leafs still had 13 games left.

Fact is, Hyman has terrible hands and offensive instinct. He can hustle all he wants but if he continues to botch chances at the rate he currently does, not even Babs will be able to shelter him for long. It's just too many opportunities missed by him.

It is things like these that tick me off about all the Hyman love fest. Could you imagine someone other than Hyman in Matthews' wing in one of those playoffs OT - the result of the series could easily have been much different