I think Marner is going to have a better year than Matthews

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

actually no.
I thought Matthews was better with 5 pts opposed to 4 points with marner, even though Matthews had better team mates over 5 games...I know...not fair to Marner. It was after this last playoff when we saw 2-9 points that I thought that Marner might just be better under pressure. What do you think?

good post. I also think Mark Letestu > McDavid because he had more points in the Oilers' last playoff run

 

[Notsince67]

Marner is a phenomenal talent. His ability to create plays from nothing and his vision is a thing of beauty. Marner really carried us against the Bruins, but you have to remember he doesn't draw chara and Bergeron every shift.

Matthews did have 4 goals to marners 1 against Washington the year prior.

I do believe marner may lead the team in points playing with Tavares. However, playing wing is totally different than controlling the ice at center. What matthews does at such a young age Is amazing. His ability to strip pucks, quick release shot, big body and high hockey IQ is the total package. Cant wait until one year when these two play together

I don't dispute Matthews skill in the least. I just object to Matthews fan boys trying to disparage Marner's ability and contribution

 

[LeafFever]

I just want to see Babcock stack the lines and play our guys like other teams best players do. Why should Eichel have gotten over 2 minutes more TOPI than Matthews last year? Why did Rantanen get 2:30 TOI more per game avg than Marner? It's time to change that philosophy. There's no Leo Komorov to force into the lineup this year.
It makes no sense since Hainsey was played far too much. Same with Andersen.

 

[Notsince67]

good post. I also think Mark Letestu > McDavid because he had more points in the Oilers' last playoff run

You can't keep up with the context of the thread? You have to turn it to hyperbole?

 

[lifelonghockeyfan]

I think it comes down to their leftwingers.
Marleau is approaching 40...can he finish those Matthews and Nylander passes?

Gee Marleau had 27 goals with Kadri as his centre, I'm sure Marleau will do fine with Tavares or Matthews

 

[DarkKnight]

I agree that a Tavares-Marner combination has tremendous potential. we unquestionably have two legitimate #1 lines. I think where Matthews has the edge is goal production. it will be very tough for Marner to overcome Matthews' goal advantage with mostly assists(he doesn't seem to have the shot power to score more than 20-25).

the other thing is, Matthews is an elite playmaker as well. so far he's been the primary goal threat on his line, and has played with a miscast grinder and another top playmaker -- but not finisher -- at wing in Nylander. #34 needs a third linemate who is more than a 15 or ~20 goalscorer, in other words.

Matthews also needs to be played superstar minutes, like the other superstars, including top billing on the #1 powerplay unit.

once that happens, and I don't see why it won't, Matthews will be challenging for some hardware.

I would quibble with Nylander not being a "finisher", dude has an absolutely world class shot, great release, what more do you want.

 

[Mess]

LOL

So Leafs made a poor decision taking Marner over the superior Barzal! Dang, just when I thought the Leafs had figured it out.

Barzal 85 points
Marner 69 points

That's of course being simplistic and suggesting points production is all that is required to determine better.

Of course, everybody knows that centre is the more important and more difficult position to play so points aren't everything.

C >> RW

So even if;

Marner 85 points (= Top 12 in NHL scoring)
Matthews 69 points

Matthews would and could still be considered to the better player and had he better season all things considered.

PS. No question with JT now as his centre that Marner point production will go up.

 

[LeafFever]

69 points with 16:28 TOI is fantastic. People are sleeping on Marner as a result.
I like to look at the big picture. Barzal was in a far better position to pad the stats than Marner last season.

 

[diceman934]

Of course, everybody knows that centre is the more important and more difficult position to play so points aren't everything.

C >> RW

So even if;

Marner 85 points (= Top 12 in NHL scoring)
Matthews 69 points

Matthews would and could still be considered to the better player and had he better season all things considered.

PS. Not question with JT now as his centre that Marner point production will go up.

No question that now with Marner as his winger JT point production will go up.

 

[ULF_55]

No question that now with Marner as his winger JT point production will go up.

No question that with Matthews, Tavares being the top 2 centers, Kadri's points will go up.

Would not be surprised to see Tavares, Matthews, Marner, Nylander have career years.

 

[slozo]

If Matthews plays around 80 games, I think he'll lead the Leafs in points, just ahead of Tavares . . . but it could be real, real close between Marner, Tavares and Matthews. In my head, I see Marner in the 70s range, and Matthews and Tavares in the 80+ range if both are healthy.

Really, I'm just hoping for health, and looking forward already to a good playoff run.

 

[Mess]

No question that now with Marner as his winger JT point production will go up.

JT is coming off his 2nd best statistical season of his career with 84 points (16th in NHL scoring OA). Career best 86 points (2014-15).

That will surely help Marner significantly when compared to Matthews as best season. A good centre makes his wingers better and JT is a great/elite centre.

Here are the lastest odds for MVP in 2018-19 season .. Matthews and JT both at 10/1 for the Hart.

 

[diceman934]

JT is coming off his 2nd best statistical season of his career with 84 points (16th in NHL scoring OA). Career best 86 points (2014-15).

That will surely help Marner significantly when compared to Matthews as best season. A good centre makes his wingers better and JT is a great/elite centre.

My point stands: playing with Marner will see JT have his best season of his career.
Marner is a franchise player and makes players around him better. He will be again the most skilled player on his line and that should only help his line mates. The fact that JT is the best center he will have played with will see Marner production increase as well.

 

[DarkKnight]

I hope people have some patience with the Tavares line,it might take some time to really gel. I'm looking to see where Tavares/Marner are by Christmas. Could be awesome right out of the gate, but if not, I won't worry in the slightest.

 

[Mess]

69 points with 16:28 TOI is fantastic. People are sleeping on Marner as a result.
I like to look at the big picture. Barzal was in a far better position to pad the stats than Marner last season.

Babs no question has been going a great job sheltering Marner, by playing down the depth chart, against easier QofC, while surrounding him with vets and allowing to feast on PP unit #1 points by playing him on the point. All situations and positions that allowed Marner to excel.

No such thing is happening with Matthews as Auston from day 1 has been thrust into top 6 role, often playing head to head against the oppositions best nightly, and still among the best statistically 5v5 both goals and defensively while only getting PP#2 opportunities.

 

[DarkKnight]

Babs no question has been going a great job sheltering Marner, by playing down the depth chart, against easier QofC, while surrounding him with vets and allowing to feast on PP unit #1 points by playing him on the point. All situations and positions that allowed Marner to excel.

No such thing is happening with Matthews as Auston from day 1 has been thrust into top 6 role, often playing head to head against the oppositions best nightly, and still among the best statistically 5v5 both goals and defensively while only getting PP#2 opportunities.

Marner wasn't sheltered at all second half of the season, Bozie and JVR were still though, as always, so who was really being sheltered then....exactly.

 

[Notsince67]

I hope people have some patience with the Tavares line,it might take some time to really gel. I'm looking to see where Tavares/Marner are by Christmas. Could be awesome right out of the gate, but if not, I won't worry in the slightest.

Marner has indicated that he is working on pulling the trigger more in shots. If there is anything I could point to that was an area of improvement, it's that.
I will be looking at 2 things...shot attempts and shot location. He loves hitting that left post when he scores. If he can find the right side of the net a bit more often, he will keep the goalies guessing.

 

[moon111]

Kadri went from one extreme (Komarov) to the other (Marner) on his wing. The Komarov-effect was neutralizing on both offense and defense. Often you'd forget the line existed.
With Marner, you might get a +3 game... or a -3. Marner is going to produce offense like no other. But Matthews was consistently producing offense...and defense. Even when he
wasn't scoring, Matthews was doing his thing defensively. Marner will win hockey games, Matthews will win championships.

 

[Minus Mitch]

My point stands: playing with Marner will see JT have his best season of his career.
Marner is a franchise player and makes players around him better. He will be again the most skilled player on his line and that should only help his line mates. The fact that JT is the best center he will have played with will see Marner production increase as well.

Marner didn't make Bozak or JVR better. My biggest concern will be keeping the puck out of our own net with a Marner/Tavares combination. We can only speculate the pairing works.

 

[Minus Mitch]

You'll want the puck on Tavares or Matthews stick on the PP.

 

[Notsince67]

Kadri went from one extreme (Komarov) to the other (Marner) on his wing. The Komarov-effect was neutralizing on both offense and defense. Often you'd forget the line existed.
With Marner, you might get a +3 game... or a -3. Marner is going to produce offense like no other. But Matthews was consistently producing offense...and defense. Even when he
wasn't scoring, Matthews was doing his thing defensively. Marner will win hockey games, Matthews will win championships.

+- is a useless individual stat.
Try describing something like blocked shots or takeaways.
Matthews has more blocked shots (as one would expect from a center)
Marner is better at takeaways.
People keep saying that Matthews is a better defensive player. I have yet to see convincing stats or gameplay

 

[Battle Lin]

the chances of nylander having a better year than marner is higher than marner having a better year than matthews

 

[Notsince67]

the chances of nylander having a better year than marner is higher than marner having a better year than matthews

Your probability is calculated with precision I assume?

 

[Mess]

John Tavares is and Top 10 NHL centre and he turned linemates Andres Lee into a 40 goal scorer and RW Josh Bailey into a 71 point player last year.

So (baring serious injury) I would expect Marner who will be riding shotgun with JT this year as his centre to put up 80 points, honestly anything less would be disappointing really.

Matthews has already proven he can be a PPG player (unassisted by a star player) so 80 points for him is also the low bar for expectations.

However its quite possible that Marner (+JT) > Matthews in total points next year, but Auston would still be considered better and having the better season.

 

[Obliviate]

I could care less who scores more, tbh. I'm thrilled to have this type of "issue".