Post-Game Talk: I really wanted to beat these arseholes. But we lost

[supercanuck]

This is a false narrative.

Canucks drafting ranks middle of the pack during the Benning years. The only thing that he has been good at has been producing "stars" which I guess boosts the drafting to maybe top 10

Calgary has been a better drafting team in the last 8 years and the best drafting team is either the Blues, Ducks or Hurricanes

Also if the Bruins didn't mess up 2015 they could probably be considered as well, which is funny since Benning left them

The sad part is the whole idea of him being a great drafter is because he drafted EP + Hughes, 2 supposed franchise altering talents. He subsequently let the perfect partner for Hughes go for nothing, and EP is a shell of his former self due to unhappiness with management (supposedly).

 

[RandV]

These individual games really shouldn't matter to the big picture, where the mickey mouse coaching/management seems to seems to be alternating between relief/panic based on the W/L outcome of each individual game. The real point is that Benning was supposed to get back to the playoffs this season and went all in to do so, yet we didn't even make it to the quarter mark before seeing the team is not making the playoffs. Failure is already in the bag, now it's just a matter of running out the season and any win/loss streaks shouldn't really change anything.

 

[4Twenty]

Why the hell do people romanticize scouts. Especially nowadays. Players are known. It’s pretty simple to identify the best players. Even the pros suck after the top 15-20.

2014
Virtanen - Hayden Fleury
Jared Mccann - David Pastrnak
Demko - Nedelkovic

2015
Boeser - Travis Konecny

2016
Juolevi- Matt Tkachuk

2017
Pettersson - Cody Glass
Kole Lind - Nicolas Hague
Jonah Gadjovich - Josh Brook
Michael Dipietro- Jonas Rondjberg

2018
Hughes- Boqvist
Woo - Alexander Romanov


By taking the very next selection you end up with essentially the same quality. Draft pick location drives success not individual skill.

 

[Hit the post]

These individual games really shouldn't matter to the big picture, where the mickey mouse coaching/management seems to seems to be alternating between relief/panic based on the W/L outcome of each individual game. The real point is that Benning was supposed to get back to the playoffs this season and went all in to do so, yet we didn't even make it to the quarter mark before seeing the team is not making the playoffs. Failure is already in the bag, now it's just a matter of running out the season and any win/loss streaks shouldn't really change anything.

No problem as we’ve got a long window. Core is young unlike the aging roster Gillis gave Benning.

Blueline
Current age of:
OEL…..30
Myers…31
Hamonic…31
Hughes…21
——————-
The Poolman…28
Schenn….31
——————-

 

[Steamer]

It matters little if you can't do anything but draft and you have the position of GM though. Sam Presti drafted three NBA league MVPs (one or more were also rookie of the year) but never won anything.

Doesn't help when John Weisbrod is your number two. But Benning put him in that post.

We're just wasting the prime years of Horvat, EP, Hughes, etc.,

If you actually understood what the Peter Principal is you would see what I am saying but sadly you are navel gazing at your opinion.

 

[tantalum]

If you actually understood what the Peter Principal is you would see what I am saying but sadly you are navel gazing at your opinion.

Benning was Peter Principled well BEFORE he rose to GM. This includes any skills one might think he has for drafting. He had some results in Buffalo but has been very under whelming since. Which makes you wonder what was going on in Buffalo besides his input.

 

[Steamer]

Benning was Peter Principled well BEFORE he rose to GM.

LOL

 

[tantalum]

LOL

Laugh all you want but it's true. It's true for many executives in professional sports as it relies on the OBC instead of actual ability.

 

[4Twenty]

Laugh all you want but it's true. It's true for many executives in professional sports as it relies on the OBC instead of actual ability.

Steamer already agreed but he’s bought into the idea the Benning family is full of learned doctors of scouting.

 

[4Twenty]

If you actually understood what the Peter Principal is you would see what I am saying but sadly you are navel gazing at your opinion.

Better than navel gazing at scouts

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

 

[Bad Goalie]

*nodding head gif*

How's that

 

[Melvin]

Benning was Peter Principled well BEFORE he rose to GM. This includes any skills one might think he has for drafting. He had some results in Buffalo but has been very under whelming since. Which makes you wonder what was going on in Buffalo besides his input.

 

[mriswith]

He can draft, and in the right situation I think Benning could be good. Right now he is living proof of the Peter Principal. The problem with the hard on of hate for Benning is it ignores what got him the job in the first place. Benning comes from a family of scouts. It's the only thing he does well. Just because he is incompetent in almost everything else doesn't take away from his talent in that area.

Can you explain how someone can be the worst pro scout in the league, absolutely incapable of assessing fully grown, matured and developed players with a large body of work in NHL games, but somehow be extremely talented at projecting what teenagers will play like 5 years from now in a league several tiers above where they currently play?

How can he not understand what he is currently watching on the ice, right now, but somehow be able to be a wizard regarding what a player will be like in 5 years?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

This myth of Benning being a good scout or judge of talent can die any f***ing year now. Seriously, we're entering flat Earth territory with that now.

 

[Jimnastic]

I have been generally dismissive of the frantic haters in the past.
Jim made a good decision in bringing in OEL and Garland.
I expected things to be much better, and predicted the Canucks would be in the top ten.
You hater geniuses out there may be able to explain the current situation. I cannot.
So, I am pretty comfortable stating that we should not be trading players to fix the situation ( with the possible exception of Miller, who clearly has more street value than team value, IMHO).
I am now going to make a pretty big leap and suggest that both Benning and Green should go. And it doesn't take much brains to decide that Benning should go first and the new GM should decide on the coaching solution.
Signed, a very patient Canuck die-hard.

 

[tantalum]

Can you explain how someone can be the worst pro scout in the league, absolutely incapable of assessing fully grown, matured and developed players with a large body of work in NHL games, but somehow be extremely talented at projecting what teenagers will play like 5 years from now in a league several tiers above where they currently play?

How can he not understand what he is currently watching on the ice, right now, but somehow be able to be a wizard regarding what a player will be like in 5 years?

I know this. First let’s assume he is a good amateur scout (snicker).

When looking at amateur players you are looking at incomplete players and you can look at the things they excel at, if there are major red flags and predict they can round out some other skills as they mature. You aren’t looking for a fit in your immediate organization (or you shouldn’t be because these are not immediate fit players).

As a pro-scout you need to look at their entire and established game as well as how they will fit on your current team. It’s a different set of criteria beyond basic raw ability and development. This is team building and we have ample evidence Benning doesn’t have an iota of ability in that department. That’s no longer in question. The only question that remains is if he has any amateur scouting ability as that’s the last battle Benning bros can fight.

It’s why I think the amateur draft is a crap shoot a lot of the times and highly dependent on organizational development. You are simply looking at raw skills that these kids excel at and the crossing your fingers those skills continue to improve to a NHL level and some others catch up as you develop the players. Or in the Canucks case as the players develop themselves. Probably wrong but that’s how I look at it.

That said what Benning does as a pro-scout is pull out his scouting reports on the players when they were 18 to remember the ones he liked, looks at what they have done in the NHL for 500 games and sets that as a baseline. He then ADDS into that the assumption that other areas of the game will improve significantly like they are still 18.

That’s how you get an appraisal on Brandon Sutter, with about 500 games experience at the time, as not the 25-30 point forward he was but as the foundational center with significant amounts of untapped offensive potential worthy of a long term deal and historic retroactive NTC.

 

[4Twenty]

I have been generally dismissive of the frantic haters in the past.
Jim made a good decision in bringing in OEL and Garland.
I expected things to be much better, and predicted the Canucks would be in the top ten.
You hater geniuses out there may be able to explain the current situation. I cannot.
So, I am pretty comfortable stating that we should not be trading players to fix the situation ( with the possible exception of Miller, who clearly has more street value than team value, IMHO).
I am now going to make a pretty big leap and suggest that both Benning and Green should go. And it doesn't take much brains to decide that Benning should go first and the new GM should decide on the coaching solution.
Signed, a very patient Canuck die-hard.

Life moves fast. Maybe you should pay attention to what the genius haters say more often.

 

[December5th]

Life moves fast. Maybe you should pay attention to what the genius haters say more often.

dont listen to him he wants benning fired. he must be some sort of genius hater

 

[EpochLink]

Laugh all you want but it's true. It's true for many executives in professional sports as it relies on the OBC instead of actual ability.

Yup.

NHL, NBA, MLB and NFL.
You gotta make your rounds from the ground up.
If you don’t got connections, then you ain’t getting anywhere.

 

[Hit the post]

Better than navel gazing at scouts

Better navel gazing than paying actual money like someone to see that "entertainment" the other night.

Laugh all you want but it's true. It's true for many executives in professional sports as it relies on the OBC instead of actual ability.

Real life as well. "Money talks, Merit walks"

 

[racerjoe]

I won’t deny he’s done SOME good. But the bad has vastly out numbered the good and it’s not close imho.

I’d rank him below Dave Nonis in the less than remarkable history of Canucks GMs.

Some good is such a misnomer.

Like if I got rid of Mussolini to bring in Hitler, did I do some good?

 

[RobertKron]

He can draft, and in the right situation I think Benning could be good. Right now he is living proof of the Peter Principal. The problem with the hard on of hate for Benning is it ignores what got him the job in the first place. Benning comes from a family of scouts. It's the only thing he does well. Just because he is incompetent in almost everything else doesn't take away from his talent in that area.

For the most part, he's been "good at drafting" because he's been way better at repeatedly fielding a terrible team than most - if any - other GMs are allowed to be.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Practice today...Myers back with OEL...Hughes with Poolman...Miller absent (?)....Hamonic absent (because he finally decided to get fully vaccinated only last week).

 

[CherryToke]

Top line looks like a 4th line. Just great