garret9
AKA#VitoCorrelationi
It was nice to see some strong performances from some individuals who have been predominately invisible for the most part!
Post-Game Talk: "I know what every players knob looks like" Jets lose 3-2 in OT
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It was nice to see some strong performances from some individuals who have been predominately invisible for the most part!
Johnny HFBOARDS
Trade you!
Oh that blade had a defect, that blade's going back to the factory....Get the stick boy on that stat!
Nyet. You vill have your Pavelec, and you vill like it.
Negatives (I'll do these first, then end on a positive note):
1. Despite good puck movement, PP's gotta bury more chances.
2. Nashville is a shot blocking engine! Couldn't find a way through them.
3. Kane's gaffe, followed by Buff's gaffe. A couple of unfortunate hops.
4. The Stu - Tangradi mess-up. Pretty sure that's why Tangradi ended up with a couple minutes less ice time than his linemates.
5. There are more, but I won't dwell.
Many positives in that game, some of which for me were:
1. Good energy, strong checking. Bit of a let down at the start of the 3rd, but they didn't completely disappear
2. Peluso - you could see hints of some skill there, but man: that was almost Skinner'esque. Watch the replay from above. A face puncher that can actually play hockey? That's awesome.
3. KSW looked pretty good - dangerous early on
4. More Clitmore than Clitsome, though Clitnone made a couple small appearances
5. Shots on net - again, not just chucking them, but some actual scoring chances. I feel the Jets outplayed Nashville for the most part - this is the third game where I can say that, so this is a good trend even if it's not showing up in the points yet.
6. Rolled 4 lines - Tangradi the lowest minute guy, and even he had 12+ minutes. None of this 2m stuff, which is great for keeping the team fresh.
7. Buff's increased physical play - crushed Smith a couple times during that game (although Smith would get him back in the end with an assist on the winner).
8. This isn't the Jets, but man: Jones looks good for Nashville - I'd be extatic as a fan base if that guy "fell" to us. Like Trouba, this guy's going to be something special.
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Sweech
Oh When the Spurs
How does Pavelec never seem to get injured with us?
I just want to see someone else in net for an extended period of time and actually see how they do.
I just want to see someone else in net for an extended period of time and actually see how they do.
AtlantaWhaler
Thrash/Preds/Sabres
- Jul 3, 2009
- 19,705
- 2,928
Judging by the teams overall stats, and this game, these two teams are very similar. I'm looking forward to the new rivalry.
Weber, Jones, Josi, and Klein
vs.
Bogo, Trouba, Toby, and Buff
Awesome.
Weber, Jones, Josi, and Klein
vs.
Bogo, Trouba, Toby, and Buff
Awesome.
Whats more likely? That despite the Jets being, for the last 3 years, middle of the pack for shots for, goals per game and Pavs never being in the top 30 for save %... with all this in mind... it's actually just been 3 years of unbelievable defensive gaffs. Pure defensive garbage. So bad that even Luongo, Broduer, Quick, would all struggle.
Or, is it more likely that Pavelec is in fact the weak link in the chain and not the goaltender some of you think he is? 3 years of data... no good. It's a defensive systems problem that, statistically has been proven to be very muted on very large sample sizes.
Because I enjoy picking apart poorly constructed arguments propping him up. I talk about a lot of Jets things, but my passion is dealing with Pav lovers who need help with reality
Haha ok, your only argument is "paV have bad stat!;&$" only thing is that the game isn't played on paper, the quality of those shots were pretty good and some were awful giveaways he had no part of, you will be very disappointed when you realize that almost any goalie in the league would have let the last goal in so he definitely isn't the reason we lost.
SensibleGuy
Registered User
- Nov 26, 2011
- 12,224
- 8,260
wow. You Pav's fans really, really just don't get it. Its astounding to read some of the stuff you have to say. [mod]
Pavelec makes some amazing saves. Great. The problem is he lets in 10 out of every 100 shots while a really good goalie only lets in 8 out of every 100. Its a pretty small distinction, but the overall effect is HUGE! He's essentially letting in an extra 2 goals every three games and its costing us wins. If you choose to believe that happens because the Jets are so brutal defensively, then back that up. Prove that the Jets are worse defensively then the more than a dozen NHL teams that finished below us in the standings last year who all had goalies with better stats than our starter.
Also, how much better might our defense look if our goaltender could handle the puck, control rebounds and stop giving our opponents face-offs in our zone.
Pavelec is not a very good goalie.
Not a bad game for us overall. Good effort ftmp. Loved Tony P scoring a nice goal!
Pavelec makes some amazing saves. Great. The problem is he lets in 10 out of every 100 shots while a really good goalie only lets in 8 out of every 100. Its a pretty small distinction, but the overall effect is HUGE! He's essentially letting in an extra 2 goals every three games and its costing us wins. If you choose to believe that happens because the Jets are so brutal defensively, then back that up. Prove that the Jets are worse defensively then the more than a dozen NHL teams that finished below us in the standings last year who all had goalies with better stats than our starter.
Also, how much better might our defense look if our goaltender could handle the puck, control rebounds and stop giving our opponents face-offs in our zone.
Pavelec is not a very good goalie.
Not a bad game for us overall. Good effort ftmp. Loved Tony P scoring a nice goal!
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so, correct me if i'm wrong, but you're pretty much advocating for an athlete to get injured?
sir, i salute you.
tired of the Pavs talk. we get it.
but just some quick food for thought.
Jets score 1 goal on a lame-butt wraparound. last goal's from a big, juicy rebound. another game, another day of pointing our fingers at our own goalie but forgetting the performance of the opposing goalie.
i'd like to see tighter D from our 5 guys on the ice before fully crucifying Pavs. his #s aren't hot, but our players are playing Holy Hand Grenade in our own zone, resulting in 1-2 goals per game. cure that and you have a few more W's.
Thesaurus
Lyrical Wordsmith
I find myself coming to the Jets part of this site less and less. Nothing but pessimism and negativity to the furthest extreme possible, it gets tiresome.
Potrzebie
Registered User
- Mar 25, 2010
- 2,362
- 2,991
I think fewer and fewer people are feeling the need to have a discussion about Pavelec. Most people are in agreement that he needs to be better. Lately it seems that every second post in the PGT is from one of 3 or 4 people and is about Pavelec. It's tiresome when there are so many other things to discuss and so many positives to take away from the last couple of games.
It's starting to remind me of the great name debate... back when any discussion of the NHL in Winnipeg got immediately hijacked by a handful of people into a debate about why they should or shouldn't be called the Jets.
I'm starting to see a very troubling trend. It really seems like a lot of posters here are trying to shut down Pavelec discussion by saying threads are being hijacked and upset about people who want to criticize him. I bet that they think the mods will begin handing out infractions and shut down the debate on Pavelec in hopes of creating an illusion of "this site has become unreadable because of X".
If you don't like to talk about Pavelec, then don't talk about Pavelec. Simply picking up your ball and going home and all the while doing so saying it's because of the big bad Pavelec detractors is weak. If you don't like what people have to say about him ignore it and move on and talk about something else game related.
I think the real issue is that with each passing game, and frankly season, Pavelec supporters have less material to work with. Their defense of him becomes more emotional, more hysterical, and less connected with reality. If you feel uncomfortable discussing it.. don't. No one is forcing you to engage in a Pavs debate if you don't want to.
If you don't like to talk about Pavelec, then don't talk about Pavelec. Simply picking up your ball and going home and all the while doing so saying it's because of the big bad Pavelec detractors is weak. If you don't like what people have to say about him ignore it and move on and talk about something else game related.
I think the real issue is that with each passing game, and frankly season, Pavelec supporters have less material to work with. Their defense of him becomes more emotional, more hysterical, and less connected with reality. If you feel uncomfortable discussing it.. don't. No one is forcing you to engage in a Pavs debate if you don't want to.
Joe Hallenback
Moderator
- Mar 4, 2005
- 15,393
- 21,596
Part of the problem of any board on the internet is you have people who have one train of thought.
All they do is follow that train of thought into every thread on a board.
Thread about Noel? Blame Pavelec
Thread about prospects? Blame Pavelec
Thread about Downtown Winnipeg? Blame Pavelec
You read it ad nauseum and there really isn't much more to discuss about it because it isn't a "discussion" it is a witch hunt.
I can't "yell" at someone online and tell them to ****. I wish I could maybe then you could have some real discussion
CorgisPer60
Barking at the net
Well, good morning, Resurrection. I agree with you about topics of discussion, but it seems that we discuss the same damn things ad nauseum. That's the problem. We know that Pavelec is a problem, but there isn't a damn thing we can do about that. I'm sick of discussing Pavelec problems. We know that he's a below average goaltender with terrible rebound control. Fact. It's another fact that we're more or less stuck with him for the next 3 seasons. I'm just really ******* tired of seeing every post-game thread loss devolve into a ferris wheel discussion where you keep going around and around.
Okay, not everyone brought their A game. Overall, a good effort for this club, but some bad bounces did us in. That's the way hockey needs to be played each and every game. If we could do that, we wouldn't be in this position of getting upset with a cough up in our own D zone in any one game.
Again, I predicted this last year - Nov. 20th Noel will be fired. Once this occurs, we should be in more capable hands with roles for players and less line juggling.
Again, I predicted this last year - Nov. 20th Noel will be fired. Once this occurs, we should be in more capable hands with roles for players and less line juggling.
After a certain point on these boards (as I have learned) you need to give up on writing some opinions and just watch as your forecasts come true. We are in the minority only for a short period of time. I was blasted over and over last year about firing Noel because I was seen to be jumping off the bandwagon. In my experience, those people most upset are likely the biggest fans because they want change. So don't get too upset, just let it fall apart and watch how people change their opinions. I won't call anyone out on here but people have drastically changed their opinions within weeks. Stick to your guns but reading other's ridiculous posts are often more enjoyable than responding. I called for Pavs buyout at the end of the year. We have some excellent prospects coming up so this Noel"esque" experiment won't last much longer than this year.
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Honestly that game wasn't lost on bad defense, or bad bounces. It was lost because of bad decisions. Bogo on the first goal by Weber goes to take the body or something to the guy on the blueline leaving the middle of the ice open knowing full well that they had 2 men deep on the offensive zone. And they had guys coming and would be outmanned, creating the 2 on 1 and the wide open ice in the middle of the slot. Yes once in awhile you need a goalie to make a save. The second goal I will blame pavs for that horrid rebound to the middle of the ice. Third goal, Kane coulda bounced it off the boards or retreated to behind the net, instead he decides to make a higher risk play that left Buff in a bit of a bad position and **** ensues.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
This is an extremely ignorant post. What stats from this game? SV%? GAA? From one game? Yeah, because that carries a lot of merit. Pavs wasn't the problem in this game. If you think so, you have little to no credibility. Let's blame our goalie when Bogosian makes a bad read or bone headed play that gives the other team an odd man rush or open net. Let's blame the goalie when Buff mis-handles the puck that leads to a game winning goal.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Another ignorant post. People don't want to talk about it 24/7 like some obsessed people because there are other things to talk about and it's
. All you have to do is look at it from a different perspective and you would realize that.People are so caught up on ONE thing, they ignore everything else. Like the fact that someone like you seems to ignore the fact that we played way too loose late in the Nashville game and it was only a matter of time before a puck went in, whereas Nashville had things locked down pretty good.
But because more then 2 goals went in, regardless how they did go in, people want to do nothing but talk about Pavs. And it's starting to become borderline psychotic.
If something else of more context was brought to the situation, people wouldn't jump to conclusions about certain opinions, yet none is brought, so the same stuff is said, over and over and over and over.
It's also hard to take certain opinions serious when blame is only thrown at one player, which is a very ignorant way to go. Last I checked, it's a team game, yet we want to blame the same guy every game?? Like I said...
we're getting closer to that reality... the faster Noel is gone and we find a real veteran coach (I pray G. Carbonneau), this fluff run and gun hockey will end and we'll really find out who our players are.
Hopefully not soon after Noel is caput, Chevy will not be tied to Buff. But I think Chevy is VERY LOYAL and will not do anything unless he's forced. So once Chevy is under the gun (for perhaps more losing seasons) we could have veteran leadership from the top down (but that will take at least another 2-3 years).
People are still in happyland after getting the Jets back. Indicting our most honourable Chipman and TNSE for making mistakes by hiring a rookie GM and a rookie coach won't be popular.
This is a catch 22.
If our team was making fewer mistakes and playing confidently and near their best capabilities like they should have been from day one of the season (like the Leafs have EVERY game so far) when Pavelec was playing much better than he is now...he wouldn't be the 43rd ranked goalie in SV%. The team and Pavelec need to be more in harmony than they have been for 1.5+ seasons.
I agree that save % over a long time is probably the best stat to measure goalie performance. But using it to shoot down a team playing 60 minute hockey as lucky after 10 games is bunk. Yeah, they'll come back down to Earth eventually. Like do people think if we had Bernier in net instead of Pavs we'd have another 2-4 points? Maybe. News flash: If Bogo had 0 horrendous/unlucky gaffes we'd have another 2-4 points.
The statistical analysis has gone too far for my liking on this board.
It's also hard to take certain opinions serious when blame is only thrown at one player, which is a very ignorant way to go. Last I checked, it's a team game, yet we want to blame the same guy every game?? Like I said...
I think its like football, the QB will take the heat whether he deserves it or not. Just comes with the territory. Same with the coach.
Another ignorant post. People don't want to talk about it 24/7 like some obsessed people because there are other things to talk about and it's
People are so caught up on ONE thing, they ignore everything else. Like the fact that someone like you seems to ignore the fact that we played way too loose late in the Nashville game and it was only a matter of time before a puck went in, whereas Nashville had things locked down pretty good.
But because more then 2 goals went in, regardless how they did go in, people want to do nothing but talk about Pavs. And it's starting to become borderline psychotic.
If something else of more context was brought to the situation, people wouldn't jump to conclusions about certain opinions, yet none is brought, so the same stuff is said, over and over and over and over.
It's also hard to take certain opinions serious when blame is only thrown at one player, which is a very ignorant way to go. Last I checked, it's a team game, yet we want to blame the same guy every game?? Like I said...
It's an opinion. You can disagree. But is he right? It depends. Pavs was out of position on two goals. Was that his fault? It's hard to say b/c our D doesn't play D. It doesn't seem we have a defensive system. So Pavs gets no help. The trend over the last four seasons is that Pavs is an average to below average goaltender (stats tell that story). Although with this D, Luongo, Price, etc. might look awful too. Great goaltenders can steal a game. Pavs is not in that category. Overplaying him likely doesn't help his stats either.
Duke749
Savannah Ghost Pirates
Doubt it...
On a serious and educated note, we played well for the most part. But things got loose in the 3rd and OT and NSH had really picked things up.
Pavs wasn't bad. He was solid. That rebound though...
What was Bogosian doing on that first goal. Let's give Weber and clean 2on1. Yeah, that's a good idea. Why he is having these brain farts, I don't know. But stahp!!!
Enstrom was dam good.
Buff was beasting it physically.
Peluso is more then solid. He is very good along the boards and that is what seems to make him so good. Uses his size and reach extremely well.
Why can't we play tighter defensively like NSH? I mean, they locked us down pretty good in the 3rd.
Will Buff ever score???
Need to finish better. There's some lack of finish.
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