Post-Game Talk: "I know what every players knob looks like" Jets lose 3-2 in OT

Status
Not open for further replies.

White Out 403*

Guest
Last caller "why everyones so upset with Pavs, he only let in 2 goals!"

:shakehead
 

Guardian17

Strong & Free
Aug 29, 2010
15,997
23,170
Winnipeg
Have to give some love for Anthony Peluso. He's looking less and less like an unskilled face puncher and more like a guy who can actually play an energy role. It's nice to see a 4th liner that will consistently win board battles and plays with a bit more creativity as opposed to "dump, chase, cycle, repeat".


I agree he played really well.

He also was quick to defend his teammates in scrums.
 

Gotmilt*

Registered User
Jun 23, 2011
246
0
Winnipeg
Strawman. We aren't asking for shutouts were asking for a goaltender not languishing in 40th place for save percentage: the worst of any starter in the league.

Watch the game again bud, pretty sure you give a guy a one timer in the slot 9 times out of 10 that's a goal even if the future hall of famer Montoya was in net
 

PegCityPuck

Registered User
Mar 8, 2012
293
0
Pavs is obviously frustrated and i can't blame him. I like how he kept it real and wasn't just regurgitating perfunctory b*lls**t. He was done with that interview way before they finished questioning him :laugh:

Another costly turnover by buff.

We play 4 on 4 like chickens with their heads cut off. Good game though. They are starting to play like they give a s**t.
 

alchemyindex

vereor nox
Jan 20, 2013
2,864
16
Winnipeg
Have to give some love for Anthony Peluso. He's looking less and less like an unskilled face puncher and more like a guy who can actually play an energy role. It's nice to see a 4th liner that will consistently win board battles and plays with a bit more creativity as opposed to "dump, chase, cycle, repeat".

Most definitely. Throwing the body around in a good way, and I like it!
 

White Out 403*

Guest
Watch the game again bud, pretty sure you give a guy a one timer in the slot 9 times out of 10 that's a goal even if the future hall of famer Montoya was in net

First off, we aren't buds. Ok chief? Second... I don't want to get into this game of dissecting each goal to try and let him off the hook off each one. Either Pavs can make saves in the NHL and be a #1 or he can't. His numbers suck, they sucked tonight, and they've sucked for over 3 years now. Why's that so difficult to accept?
 

Blue Shakehead

because lol Jets
Mar 18, 2011
3,038
1,591
www.becauseloljets.com
Have to give some love for Anthony Peluso. He's looking less and less like an unskilled face puncher and more like a guy who can actually play an energy role. It's nice to see a 4th liner that will consistently win board battles and plays with a bit more creativity as opposed to "dump, chase, cycle, repeat".

I was JUST going to post the same thing. He's been great. I wonder if the Peluso haters have come around on him a bit or if they're still seeing 5-6 giveaways per night that nobody else is, including the official stats guys. :sarcasm:
 

Mud Turtle

Registered User
Jul 26, 2013
8,048
18,223
Funny, last time I checked, when you turn over the puck in the slot players in the NHL, believe it or not put the puck in the net.

Look, I think Pavs played OK tonight. Not great, not terrible, just OK. Again, he didn't do anything to help the team win. Same as every other night.

I guess when Pavelec has an average night we should be overjoyed.

I promise to be the first to post something nice just as soon as he wins a game for us. Hasn't happened yet this season.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

peter sullivan

Winnipeg
Apr 9, 2010
2,356
4
in my opinion, Noel should put all the lines back together the way they were supposed to be starting the season and just leave them, no matter what happens. Let everyone get used to their linemates. Let it work itself out. Give some stability to the team.

I've had this issue with Noel since the start, but it is particularly bad this year....just chill and let everyone play with who they are supposed to play with.....i don't see other teams scrambling their lines so often.
 

tbcwpg

Moderator
Jan 25, 2011
15,973
18,430
First off, we aren't buds. Ok chief? Second... I don't want to get into this game of dissecting each goal to try and let him off the hook off each one. Either Pavs can make saves in the NHL and be a #1 or he can't. His numbers suck, they sucked tonight, and they've sucked for over 3 years now. Why's that so difficult to accept?

So you'll dissect goals that are his fault but not ones that aren't?

Pavelec is not an elite goalie in the league, I think everyone knows that. I think that there are many that lay too much blame at his feet though. Watching the highlights you could say that he was the most at fault for one of the 3 tonight, the 2nd one. The guys in front of him are making just as any gaffes.

This team is not much better with or without Pavelec. Don't know how many times I feel that I need to mention that the team has the same problems with any goalie in net. Even though you shouldn't call out your teammates like he did, everything Pavelec said after the game is totally correct.

He's cost us one point this season. He needs to be better but he's far from being the only problem, or the worst problem on this team.
 

White Out 403*

Guest
So you'll dissect goals that are his fault but not ones that aren't?

Pavelec is not an elite goalie in the league, I think everyone knows that. I think that there are many that lay too much blame at his feet though. Watching the highlights you could say that he was the most at fault for one of the 3 tonight, the 2nd one. The guys in front of him are making just as any gaffes.

This team is not much better with or without Pavelec. Don't know how many times I feel that I need to mention that the team has the same problems with any goalie in net. Even though you shouldn't call out your teammates like he did, everything Pavelec said after the game is totally correct.

He's cost us one point this season. He needs to be better but he's far from being the only problem, or the worst problem on this team.

I posted this in the other thread but it's so apropo.

According to NHL.com:
the Jets are 18th in shots allowed per game on average. in a 30 team league that makes us... mediocre to average. Keeping in mind were .02 from being dead middle.

Jets are 3rd in the league for shots registered.
Jets are 19th in the league for goals scored.
Pavelec is 43th overall in save %. 43. In a 30 team league.

Who could possibly solve this riddle of what the problem on this team lies. Or shall I say, to avoid a meaningless argument, the teams biggest problem.

Strangely enough these #s are almost perfectly in line with last years #s

So you may suggest that he isn't our biggest problem I'm going to go ahead and just say the data says otherwise.
 

Hank Chinaski

Registered User
May 29, 2007
20,804
3,015
YFO
in my opinion, Noel should put all the lines back together the way they were supposed to be starting the season and just leave them, no matter what happens. Let everyone get used to their linemates. Let it work itself out. Give some stability to the team.

I've had this issue with Noel since the start, but it is particularly bad this year....just chill and let everyone play with who they are supposed to play with.....i don't see other teams scrambling their lines so often.

I agree, and it's probably inevitable that LLW gets reunited for good at some point. That being said, I do really like what I've seen from Kane-Scheifele-Wheeler. Scheifele in particular seems to have really settled in on that line.
 

StronGeer

Registered User
Jan 25, 2013
10,196
1
Down by the bay
First off, we aren't buds. Ok chief? Second... I don't want to get into this game of dissecting each goal to try and let him off the hook off each one. Either Pavs can make saves in the NHL and be a #1 or he can't. His numbers suck, they sucked tonight, and they've sucked for over 3 years now. Why's that so difficult to accept?

Couldn't help it.

 

Potrzebie

Registered User
Mar 25, 2010
2,326
2,889
Good effort tonight. I thought they were actually the better team for the second game in a row.

It's a shame that the PGTs get hijacked with the Pavs vitriol. Not that I disagree, but there's so much more we could discuss. :shakehead
 

White Out 403*

Guest
EVERY goal is Pavelec's fault.

Structure[edit]

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:
Person 1 has position X.
Person 2 disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[4]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[3]
Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Person 2 attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

;)

Again, no one is blaming everything on Pavelec. It's getting exhausting refuting all these strawman arguments. We're saying we need better than the 43rd best goaltender in a 30 team league.
 

tbcwpg

Moderator
Jan 25, 2011
15,973
18,430
I posted this in the other thread but it's so apropo.

According to NHL.com:
the Jets are 18th in shots allowed per game on average. in a 30 team league that makes us... mediocre to average. Keeping in mind were .02 from being dead middle.

Jets are 3rd in the league for shots registered.
Jets are 19th in the league for goals scored.
Pavelec is 43th overall in save %. 43. In a 30 team league.

Who could possibly solve this riddle of what the problem on this team lies. Or shall I say, to avoid a meaningless argument, the teams biggest problem.

Strangely enough these #s are almost perfectly in line with last years #s

So you may suggest that he isn't our biggest problem I'm going to go ahead and just say the data says otherwise.

Stats have their place but watching the games also does. He was great at the start of the year when the team couldn't get anything going agains Anaheim, Minnesota, and I'll even say St Louis even though it turned into a win. He's been the victim of probably the most lowlight reel giveaways in his own zone than anyone else in the league.

Put any goalie in the league in net right now and the record would be almost identical. The team does not play well in front of him, whatever the reason. The PP is atrocious, that's the biggest problem right now, not a goalie who hasn't given up a horrible goal outside of a shootout in the last couple of games. You want to argue that he doesn't make the tough saves? Good point. He's got tons of flaws and I don't think he's perfect in the slightest but I think suggesting the goaltending is the problem here is taking the easy way out.

Also, since we're so early into the season, those stats on NHL.com have a lot of goalies in there that wouldn't be there at the end of the year. Hell, Ben Scrivens' one period shutout of the Jets had him top of the league in GAA and SV%.

Complain that he didn't win us this game, fine. He didn't lose it either, so identifying him as the main reason the team isn't .500 right now is just taking the easy way.

And from that last response from another poster, it certainly seems like he's getting ALL the blame because the anti-Pav brigade brings up no other points at all apart from Pavelec.
 

Bartho

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
824
244
Wpg
Structure[edit]

The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:
Person 1 has position X.
Person 2 disregards certain key points of X and instead presents the superficially similar position Y. The position Y is a distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:
Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent's position.
Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's actual intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[4]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[3]
Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Person 2 attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.

;)

Again, no one is blaming everything on Pavelec. It's getting exhausting refuting all these strawman arguments. We're saying we need better than the 43rd best goaltender in a 30 team league.
95% of your posts consist of blaming Pavelec for all the ills that befall the Jets. (Yes, I counted them)
 

White Out 403*

Guest
Stats have their place but watching the games also does. He was great at the start of the year when the team couldn't get anything going agains Anaheim, Minnesota, and I'll even say St Louis even though it turned into a win. He's been the victim of probably the most lowlight reel giveaways in his own zone than anyone else in the league.

Put any goalie in the league in net right now and the record would be almost identical. The team does not play well in front of him, whatever the reason. The PP is atrocious, that's the biggest problem right now, not a goalie who hasn't given up a horrible goal outside of a shootout in the last couple of games. You want to argue that he doesn't make the tough saves? Good point. He's got tons of flaws and I don't think he's perfect in the slightest but I think suggesting the goaltending is the problem here is taking the easy way out.

Also, since we're so early into the season, those stats on NHL.com have a lot of goalies in there that wouldn't be there at the end of the year. Hell, Ben Scrivens' one period shutout of the Jets had him top of the league in GAA and SV%.

Complain that he didn't win us this game, fine. He didn't lose it either, so identifying him as the main reason the team isn't .500 right now is just taking the easy way.

Whats more likely? That despite the Jets being, for the last 3 years, middle of the pack for shots for, goals per game and Pavs never being in the top 30 for save %... with all this in mind... it's actually just been 3 years of unbelievable defensive gaffs. Pure defensive garbage. So bad that even Luongo, Broduer, Quick, would all struggle.

Or, is it more likely that Pavelec is in fact the weak link in the chain and not the goaltender some of you think he is? 3 years of data... no good. It's a defensive systems problem that, statistically has been proven to be very muted on very large sample sizes.

95% of your posts consist of blaming Pavelec for all the ills that befall the Jets.

Because I enjoy picking apart poorly constructed arguments propping him up. I talk about a lot of Jets things, but my passion is dealing with Pav lovers who need help with reality :)
 

ps241

The Ballad of Ville Bobby
Sponsor
Mar 10, 2010
34,829
30,973
Very impressed with how the Jets have been playing lately. St Louis, Washinton, and Nashville have all been excellant games that were also fun to watch.

Bounces always even out.....keep it rolling boys!
 

Bartho

Registered User
Feb 26, 2013
824
244
Wpg
I talk about a lot of Jets things, but my passion is dealing with Pav lovers who need help with reality :)

Yes, the reality that Pavelec is absolute garbage because he doesn't stop EVERY SINGLE shot. Even the ones Bogosian kicks in.
 

peter sullivan

Winnipeg
Apr 9, 2010
2,356
4
the problem with the theory that the stats (which have been amazingly consistent for three years) do not tell the picture and that watching pavalec is a better basis for judgement is that just watching him doesn't give you any reference to compare what other goalies are doing.

There is no question that he makes many great saves....but every starting goalie in the league makes great saves...every single one....so how do you compare?

the simple fact is he makes fewer saves than any other goalie....its that simple, great saves or not, he makes fewer of them.

there is no statistical evidence that the jets are playing worse defence, or allowing more shots, or more difficult shots or anything else.....there is no basis to say he has a more difficult job than any other goalie.

the stats do not lie in this case....
 

Mud Turtle

Registered User
Jul 26, 2013
8,048
18,223
Yes, the reality that Pavelec is absolute garbage because he doesn't stop EVERY SINGLE shot.

But, there's never just a "SINGLE" shot on Pavelec. There's always a juicy rebound too! :laugh: Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm done now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->