How long before team USA is on par with Canada?

[Dominance]

Canada has weak goaltending tbh

Quebec has been failing in its duty to produce legendary goaltenders.

 

[Dolemite]

As soon as the top levels of USA Hockey are replaced with people who get it, never.

 

[Bixby Snyder]

These threads are always hilarious the way Canadians jump in to proclaim their greatness and superiority in hockey over the USA and how the 'murcans will never ever beat them at 'their game', of course, reality would suggest otherwise.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

These threads are always hilarious the way Canadians jump in to proclaim their greatness and superiority in hockey over the USA and how the 'murcans will never ever beat them at 'their game', of course, reality would suggest otherwise.

I understand why, though. It’s their baby so to speak. It’s ingrained in their culture. It’s a way of life for them.

It’s the same way we would scoff at them if someone were to say they’d eventually beat us in basketball or football.

 

[BlueDream]

These threads are always hilarious the way Canadians jump in to proclaim their greatness and superiority in hockey over the USA and how the 'murcans will never ever beat them at 'their game', of course, reality would suggest otherwise.

What is "reality"?

Of course the U.S. will win sometimes. Not even the best teams will ALWAYS win.

But Canada has obviously won way more. I'm American and I don't understand why there would be a debate. They're better and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I still don't think it's super close. Canada has extra forwards who would be good enough to match USA's top line, and the depth isn't close

 

[b in vancouver]

A few things with Canada nowadays. They haven't been producing top snipers lately. Not sure how well the top-end young d-men are developing. And Quebec hasn't been producing nearly as much talent over the past decade as you'd think they should.

However, up front, Canada is simply miles better and deeper. Eichel, Gaudreau, Matthews, Boeser, etc. are a good start - however even after Crosby, Bergeron, Getzlaf and co. age out - Canada still has McDavid, MacKinnon, Hall, Seguin, Point, Barzal, etc. with Stamkos, Tavares, Giroux, Marchand, Benn, etc. around to transition - something the U.S. is lacking with P. Kane and Wheeler and probably another guy or two in that 25-31 bracket.

Jones, McAvoy, Werenski, etc. could/should be a really solid international line-up in 5 years or so. Gibson in net will also be a boon.

 

[Dominance]

These threads are always hilarious the way Canadians jump in to proclaim their greatness and superiority in hockey over the USA and how the 'murcans will never ever beat them at 'their game', of course, reality would suggest otherwise.

It’s hilarious how a choice few Americans ooze a sense of superiority for the sole virtue of being American, and are actually proud of their success in the Olympics, for instance. News flash - you have the greatest economically and socially enabled population in the world. There’s nothing more to it than that. If you actually compare your medal hauls to equivalently advanced nations and factor in the numerical population difference, the US is actually behind most European countries - I’d imagine this is due to North America’s obesity epidemic limiting the talent pool for all forms of sport.

Canada dominated hockey in the past when we had the greatest number of hockey players. Now America is almost equivalent in registered youth players and the professional success reflects that. As you pass us in that realm - which I’ll bitch at, but am internally happy for as it signifies the growth of my favourite sport - you will soon after see Team USA rising to supremacy on the international level. I’ve been ecstatic at Team Canada’s past success in the same way that a fan enjoys their team winning, but I have never thought that Canadians are naturally better at hockey, only that our society shapes them more in that direction. Anything more is absurd, as is thinking that the rise of American hockey players is by virtue of them magically becoming better at the sport.

 

[Dominance]

What is "reality"?

Of course the U.S. will win sometimes. Not even the best teams will ALWAYS win.

But Canada has obviously won way more. I'm American and I don't understand why there would be a debate. They're better and I don't see it changing anytime soon.

See my post above. We’re not “better”, we just have a larger talent pool. And it looks like that is soon to change.

 

[Asinine]

For every 'star' that someone states USA has, Canada has a handful of better.

If Boeser was Canadian most people wouldn't even be listing him in their ~10 players they are rebuttling these American stars with.

 

[BlueDream]

See my post above. We’re not “better”, we just have a larger talent pool. And it looks like that is soon to change.

Yeah because that makes sense...

 

[Dominance]

Yeah because that makes sense...

Are people really struggling with this concept out of some weird form of patriotism? Do you also subscribe to stereotypes, like that Asians are better at math due to their race? A society can shape its citizens’ aptitude’s with what it values and encourages - so the average Canadian might be a better hockey player than the average American, lol - but there’s no natural, special, unique national talent.

Have you read Rawls?

 

[BlueDream]

Are people really struggling with this concept out of some weird form of patriotism? Do you also subscribe to stereotypes, like that Asians are better at math due to their race? A society can shape its citizens’ aptitude’s with what it values and encourages - so the average Canadian might be a better hockey player than the average American, lol - but there’s no natural, special, unique national talent.

Have you read Rawls?

Umm, what? You are rambling about a bunch of nonsense now.

You literally said "Canada isn't better, they just have a bigger talent pool."

Yes, having more talent = icing better teams.

That's all there is to it. You are trying to separate the two things when they actually go hand in hand.

Nothing I have said is even remotely related to patriotism or stereotypes, you are straight up ranting and I'm not sure why lol.

 

[Apotheosis]

Never happening. Lots of great young American talent, but this was the worst last few drafts for Canadians. The next 2-3 drafts are riddled with top end Canadian talent. Not to mention everything considered, look at the top 5 in scoring. Mack, McDavid, Marner. 3 of the top 5 are Canadians and the best young talent in the league is still Canadian. Top two point getters for D (Rielly and Chabot) are Canadian and one is only 21 and the other 24. Barzal is self explanatory etc.

 

[Apotheosis]

Matthews - Hughes - Eichel as their 1-2-3 punch down the middle is going to wreak havoc.

You're acting like Canada can't throw out McDavid - Mackinnon - Barzal right now.

 

[Rebels57]

You're acting like Canada can't throw out McDavid - Mackinnon - Barzal right now.

I mean, they'll wreak havoc too. I'm not taking anything away from them. It will be fun as hell to watch them go head-to-head. That Canada trio will be crazy off of the rush.

 

[Apotheosis]

I mean, they'll wreak havoc too. I'm not taking anything away from them. It will be fun as hell to watch them go head-to-head. That Canada trio will be crazy off of the rush.

My point more so was that the three I posted are superior to the trio that you posted.

 

[Rebels57]

My point more so was that the three I posted are superior to the trio that you posted.

Right now they are, but it's the closest USA has ever been to Canada in Center depth.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

I still don't think it's super close. Canada has extra forwards who would be good enough to match USA's top line, and the depth isn't close

Who would those extra forwards be ?

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Who would those extra forwards be ?

off the top of my head, some combination of ROR/Getzlaf/Toews/Stamkos/Stone/Benn. Probably not as good as USA's top line, but pretty close

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

It’s hilarious how a choice few Americans ooze a sense of superiority for the sole virtue of being American, and are actually proud of their success in the Olympics, for instance. News flash - you have the greatest economically and socially enabled population in the world. There’s nothing more to it than that. If you actually compare your medal hauls to equivalently advanced nations and factor in the numerical population difference, the US is actually behind most European countries - I’d imagine this is due to North America’s obesity epidemic limiting the talent pool for all forms of sport.

Canada dominated hockey in the past when we had the greatest number of hockey players. Now America is almost equivalent in registered youth players and the professional success reflects that. As you pass us in that realm - which I’ll ***** at, but am internally happy for as it signifies the growth of my favourite sport - you will soon after see Team USA rising to supremacy on the international level. I’ve been ecstatic at Team Canada’s past success in the same way that a fan enjoys their team winning, but I have never thought that Canadians are naturally better at hockey, only that our society shapes them more in that direction. Anything more is absurd, as is thinking that the rise of American hockey players is by virtue of them magically becoming better at the sport.

This is just a poor example on multiple fronts. What does obesity and olympic medals have to do with each other?

And there is more to what you are saying than you are implying. What are these European nations good at? Soccer? Soccer to them is the equivalent of hockey to Canada. Of course they have a leg up on the US. Soccer in the US is simply not getting the top athletes like other sports.

Are we counting Olympic medals like they count swimming in the Olympics? Where one sport produces 20x’s the medals than say a basketball medal? Kind of not fair if you are looking at it like that.

Take for example Switzerland/Germany’s dominance in the Winter Olympics. There are a lot of forms of that, that I’d guess .001% of Americans are doing or better yet have never even heard of. It took me until almost 25 to know that skiing long distances and then shooting targets could get you into the olympics. Also, doesn’t help that only the upper half of America actually sees a consistent amount of snow in the US. There’s millions people living in this country that have never seen snow before. Of course, we wouldn’t be as good as nations that do that full time year round.

In terms of the summer olympics, I believe it was 5 of the past 6 olympics the US has led in medal counts. The state of Texas would have been 3rd in gold medals if it were a country the past Summer Olympics. And like I stated above, some of these sports that the US dominate are only one medal sports.

Just your whole premise is off. You can’t take an entire country’s population and just factor it into the amount of talent they have to pool from. I can’t state an accurate number but I’d assume there is a large percentage of people that were never even given the opportunity to play hockey in a large majority of the states here. If you grew up in Florida, California, Texas, Arizona or hell, anywhere else in the lower half of the US, how many of those kids/parents ever thought to play or put their child through hockey? I’m going to say less than 1%. That’s why it’s so surprising that Matthews is from Arizona.

But it also speaks to my point because his parents knew to get him out of the state and up north because there isn’t a scene there for it.

And I’m not even going to touch the obesity comment as if sports here in the US are faltering. If anything they are continuing to get better.

 

[Dominance]

Umm, what? You are rambling about a bunch of nonsense now.

You literally said "Canada isn't better, they just have a bigger talent pool."

Yes, having more talent = icing better teams.

That's all there is to it. You are trying to separate the two things when they actually go hand in hand.

Nothing I have said is even remotely related to patriotism or stereotypes, you are straight up ranting and I'm not sure why lol.

Ah, sorry, I gotcha now. I was just deeply into the theme being discussed earlier. Don’t blame me too much, I was actually able to apply some of the useless University classes I took for a second there.

 

[Dominance]

This is just a poor example on multiple fronts. What does obesity and olympic medals have to do with each other?

And there is more to what you are saying than you are implying. What are these European nations good at? Soccer? Soccer to them is the equivalent of hockey to Canada. Of course they have a leg up on the US. Soccer in the US is simply not getting the top athletes like other sports.

Are we counting Olympic medals like they count swimming in the Olympics? Where one sport produces 20x’s the medals than say a basketball medal? Kind of not fair if you are looking at it like that.

Take for example Switzerland/Germany’s dominance in the Winter Olympics. There are a lot of forms of that, that I’d guess .001% of Americans are doing or better yet have never even heard of. It took me until almost 25 to know that skiing long distances and then shooting targets could get you into the olympics. Also, doesn’t help that only the upper half of America actually sees a consistent amount of snow in the US. There’s millions people living in this country that have never seen snow before. Of course, we wouldn’t be as good as nations that do that full time year round.

In terms of the summer olympics, I believe it was 5 of the past 6 olympics the US has led in medal counts. The state of Texas would have been 3rd in gold medals if it were a country the past Summer Olympics. And like I stated above, some of these sports that the US dominate are only one medal sports.

Just your whole premise is off. You can’t take an entire country’s population and just factor it into the amount of talent they have to pool from. I can’t state an accurate number but I’d assume there is a large percentage of people that were never even given the opportunity to play hockey in a large majority of the states here. If you grew up in Florida, California, Texas, Arizona or hell, anywhere else in the lower half of the US, how many of those kids/parents ever thought to play or put their child through hockey? I’m going to say less than 1%. That’s why it’s so surprising that Matthews is from Arizona.

But it also speaks to my point because his parents knew to get him out of the state and up north because there isn’t a scene there for it.

And I’m not even going to touch the obesity comment as if sports here in the US are faltering. If anything they are continuing to get better.

You’re actually affirming and better explaining everything I was trying to get at.

 

[Hockey4Lyfe]

A little off topic, but I’d love to see a stat that shows the numbers by state of where the youth hockey players are coming from in the US.

An uneducated guess, but a guess either way, I’d say that close to 95%, if extended across the country, are coming from above the Mason Dixon line.

 

[MadLuke]

Right now they are, but it's the closest USA has ever been to Canada in Center depth.

The miracle on ice generation that beat Canada in the 1996 world Cup was not far that year (not in total depth, but icing only one team dept).

Modano
Lafontaine
Weight
Otto (for a role 4th center)

Nice top talent in their prime

If Jeremy Roenick don't get injured, you are not far of what Canada without Lemieux playing was icing at the time.

Lindros
Sakic
Gretzky
Messier
Yzerman

Much more dept on Canada side and bigger name but they were not all at their best unlike the US ones, for a tourney when only the top 5 matter they were good enough to keep up and win.