How high were Mario Lemieux's rookie expectations?

[MS]

The facts are that Crosby was clearly better than his peer group of the elite offensive players than Lindros was. Using a very flawed method of "adjusting" doesn't change this.

The facts are that Eric Lindros was one of the most dominant offensive players in NHL history and completely lived up to his draft billing, save injuries. Nitpicking over numbers vs. a player as great as Sidney Crosby doesn't change this.

 

[JackSlater]

Yes Lindros wasn't expected to match Gretzky or Lemieux offensively. He was expected to be sort of a Messier on steroids.

I'm curious if anyone can recall Lemieux getting Beliveau comparisons? It seems very obvious at the superficial level, with Lemieux obviously being more offensively oriented and less well rounded.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Nobody thought he'd be as productive as Wayne or Mario and score 200 points in a season. They thought he'd be a Lafleur/Messier player offensively while being the most imposing physical beast in NHL history - and he was exactly that.

The guy's 5-year peak where he averaged 125 points/82 GP was as good offensively in NHL in history not named Gretzky or Lemieux, and he was the most feared physical presence in the NHL at the same time. He's getting criminally underrated in hindsight.

there’s quite a lot of daylight between lafleur and messier, if we’re speaking only about offence.

i think basically peak lindros was the trottier of trottier’s two best years in the late 70s, only without the durability, more goals, less assists, and obviously bigger scarier and meaner.

that’s a better scorer than messier in all hut one season of messier’s career, in the ballpark of peak lafleur and jagr, and yes daver worse than crosby’s mythological four years where he was only healthy one year but better than most of crosby’s healthy years.

 

[Jets4Life]

Very very high. There was a rumor, Minnesota offered all their draft picks for Pens Nr. 1 pick. Quebec offered Stastny trio for this pick. Pens refused.

Cant imagine the craziness, if such player would come to league this days. McDavid is not comparable.

Yes, McDavid was comparable, considering they were labelled generational talents Crosby and Lindros also had incredible hype before being drafted

 

[Jets4Life]

Were there any offers including 1th overall pick in regard of him? No. He was a great prospect, that no doubt. But other teams didnt try such craziness like it was with Mario and later with Lindros.

The Quebec Nordiques offered an insane package deal for Alexandre Daigue, but Ottawa rejected it The "New" WHA offered Crosby a 3 year $7.5 million contract, as the new CBA made Entry Level Contracts less than one million, in many cases.
Lemieux did not get many offers, and they were not that great to begin with. Strange, considering he made it clear he did not want to play for Pittsburgh at the time.

 

[Jets4Life]

McDavid was the most gifted prospect out of all of them coming out of Juniors. His skill set was the most unique. An argument can be made for 66 or Eric. Sid may have been slightly more hyped by the average canadian but not the media and was not more gifted.

Crosby was definitely hyped big time everywhere It was the biggest hype for a draft pick in 14 years (since Lindros)

 

[Jets4Life]

Still, when you ask some guys that lived that time, the answer will be in 90 % Mario L.
I, as a guy, who was 6 years old boy behind Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia when Mario L was drafted, i know exactly, how was it that time.

In other words, you had no idea regarding the hype around Lemieux. Someone living in the Iron Curtain, at 6 years of age nevertheless, won't remember things like a 16 year old Canadian boy that is surrounded by NHL hockey in every corner of Canadian society

 

[daver]

there’s quite a lot of daylight between lafleur and messier, if we’re speaking only about offence.

i think basically peak lindros was the trottier of trottier’s two best years in the late 70s, only without the durability, more goals, less assists, and obviously bigger scarier and meaner.

that’s a better scorer than messier in all hut one season of messier’s career, in the ballpark of peak lafleur and jagr, and yes daver worse than crosby’s mythological four years where he was only healthy one year but better than most of crosby’s healthy years.

You honestly didn't think that sarcastically pointing out Crosby's missed time maybe wasn't as cutting as you would think given Lindros is the comparable? In their respective five year "peaks" Lindros was 10th in scoring, Crosby was 5th. Which peak is more "mythological?

Peak Crosby > Peak Lindros should be a pretty clear position.

 

[daver]

The facts are that Eric Lindros was one of the most dominant offensive players in NHL history and completely lived up to his draft billing, save injuries. Nitpicking over numbers vs. a player as great as Sidney Crosby doesn't change this.

This is still overhyping him. As many others are pointing out, he wasn't among the very best offensive players of all time outside of Wayne and Mario especially when you include Howe in that group. His best full season saw him tie for the Art Ross but it wasn't necessarily a "best of his era" season.

The other seasons in his five year peak saw:

A Top 25 PPG (92/93)
2nd in PPG (93/94)
2nd in PPG (95/96)
1st in PPG (96/97)

He never had a season where he clearly outclassed the league, something that many other players did have (Crosby, Jagr, Esposito, Hull, Mikita, Beliveau etc..). Of course this presumes that getting injured and missing time wasn't part of his fundamental makeup. At best, for his era, you can place him below Jagr but above Sakic and Forsberg for peak/prime offensive level of play. That, plus his physicality, certainly made him a potential Top 20 maybe even a Top 10 player.

 

[alko]

In other words, you had no idea regarding the hype around Lemieux. Someone living in the Iron Curtain, at 6 years of age nevertheless, won't remember things like a 16 year old Canadian boy that is surrounded by NHL hockey in every corner of Canadian society

But. Im here about 15 years already and i know exactly, what was people talking.

Btw., what was the package for Daigle from Quebec?

 

[Neutrinos]

But. Im here about 15 years already and i know exactly, what was people talking.

Btw., what was the package for Daigle from Quebec?

Based on the speculation I've read, it involved Forsberg and Nolan

 

[Boxscore]

Based on the speculation I've read, it involved Forsberg and Nolan

Yes, I understand that was the deal too. Could you imagine if the Nords did that? My goodness. The Sens would have been legit... Yashin, Forsberg, Nolan.

 

[alko]

Based on the speculation I've read, it involved Forsberg and Nolan

Is there any link?

 

[Neutrinos]

Is there any link?

Just Google it. You'll get a bunch

One even suggested the offer was Forsberg, Nolan, Hextall, + picks

 

[Mogo]

Throw some 66 videos at me and I will show you 97 Videos that trump it. Please go ahead.

Oh you kids are funny

McDavid would been killed in 80-90's hockey. His speed wouldn't made a difference as it does now as somebody would have just flat out put him threw the boards

Look at the team Mario scored 199 points with. Mario literally carried his teams thats why the bad back

 

[Mogo]

Only because we have access to more videos and highlights of McDavid, high def, more angles, etc. I would trade McDavid for Lemieux wearing 80's equipment and with a wooden stick.

Lemieux could play 60 games and not lose to Kucherov in league scoring.

McDavid maybe one of the all time greats when he is done. But he will never be better then Lemieux.

Nobody is better than Mario or ever will be most likely. Even Gretzky has said Mario is the GOAT

 

[McFlash97]

Nobody is better than Mario or ever will be most likely. Even Gretzky has said Mario is the GOAT

Lol...the greatest also said Crosby will break his records....


Gretzky is the greatest..McDavid is the most advanced player of all time.

 

[The Panther]

Even Gretzky has said Mario is the GOAT

When exactly did Gretzky say this? I'm skeptical.

I've always found Gretzky to be kind of prickly about the subject of Lemieux's greatness in comparison to his. Although not as prickly as Bossy was about Gretzky / The Oilers...

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

according to gretzky any of approximately fifty guys, mario included, could have broken all of his records. but he never wavered from gordie howe as the greatest ever.

 

[Howie Hodge]

They were real high, man...…

 

[Studz]

Lol...the greatest also said Crosby will break his records....


Gretzky is the greatest..McDavid is the most advanced player of all time.

I will agree Gretzky is the greatest player of all time because his achievements may last forever. The only man who had a chance to beat those records is the most gifted player of all time... Mario Lemieux.

As for McDavid, you can repeat that a million times and you will be wrong a million times. How about McDavid first proves he is the best player right now and of his generation before we even compare him with a players like Lemieux and Gretzky.

 

[McFlash97]

I will agree Gretzky is the greatest player of all time because his achievements may last forever. The only man who had a chance to beat those records is the most gifted player of all time... Mario Lemieux.

As for McDavid, you can repeat that a million times and you will be wrong a million times. How about McDavid first proves he is the best player right now and of his generation before we even compare him with a players like Lemieux and Gretzky.

McDavids skillset is otherworldly. Much like 66 and 99 before him. Since its 2019 yes I consider him the most advanced player of all time.

 

[Pominville Knows]

McDavids skillset is otherworldly. Much like 66 and 99 before him. Since its 2019 yes I consider him the most advanced player of all time.

Kind of takes away some swagger from the title if all it takes to snag it is to happen to be born at a later year or at most in a later decade than the previous holder?

My streethockey career on inlines may in effect make me greater than at least some of the guys in that 1875 game in Montreal.

 

[K Fleur]

McDavids skillset is otherworldly. Much like 66 and 99 before him. Since its 2019 yes I consider him the most advanced player of all time.

Is Draisaitl the second most advanced player of all time?

 

[Neutrinos]

I think if you put McDavid as he today on those Edmonton teams from the early 80's, he'd have multiple 200+ point seasons