How high were Mario Lemieux's rookie expectations?

[c9777666]

35 years ago today, Mario Lemieux scored his first goal in his first game on his first shot on his first shift.



Every now and then, we see #1 draft picks come in with enormous expectations (Crosbv, Lindros, Stamkos, McDavid). How high were the expectations on a young 66? How much pressure was he under to be great?

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[alko]

Very very high. There was a rumor, Minnesota offered all their draft picks for Pens Nr. 1 pick. Quebec offered Stastny trio for this pick. Pens refused.

Cant imagine the craziness, if such player would come to league this days. McDavid is not comparable.

 

[Kevs Security]

Ol' Uncle Kev here remembers it like yesterday... man, was Mario hyped. And the craziest thing? He actually lived up to that hype, overcame expectations even! Now I've seen the daigles and the lindroses... and all I could do was laugh! They were dominant at an early age, that's for sure. But no one, I repeat - not a single player since Mario Lemieux - truly was that exceptional. What a great man he is.

 

[The Panther]

I guess the expectations were really, really high. He not only had the unbelievable scoring feats in Junior, but he had the incredible size and speed to take on any NHL-er.

Even though Mario had a magnificent rookie season in 1984-85, he actually was slow to get going, goals-wise (despite scoring on his first shot). He scored twice in his first thirteen games, and 11 in his first thirty-two. Of course, for a normal rookie those would be great numbers, but for him a bit average. But then he got hot, starting in mid-January with a win over Edmonton in which he scored twice. He scored 32 goals in his last 41 games, which is pretty much unprecedented for any teenage rookie, and was a runaway Calder winner.

Hilariously, there were actually pundits in January '85 who said publicly that 29-year-old Warren Young of the Penguins was a more deserving All-Star Game representative than Lemieux. Sports Illustrated wrote (in Jan. 1985): "Young is not only getting his share of goals, but is also enhancing Lemieux's skills with his style of play." You can't make this stuff up: The oldest is Young

Anyway, a pretty incredible rookie season.

 

[Pominville Knows]

I have always envisioned it that the demolishing of the just peaked Lafleur's junior numbers should mean that people could have thought he was possibly the next Gretzky actually. Was this the case?
Pardon my butchering of the english grammar.

 

[sr edler]

Only slightly higher than the expectations Toronto had on Wendel Clark the following year.

 

[sr edler]

Pardon my butchering of the english grammar.

Excuses acceptees d'un autodidacte.

 

[Neutrinos]

Very very high. There was a rumor, Minnesota offered all their draft picks for Pens Nr. 1 pick. Quebec offered Stastny trio for this pick. Pens refused.

Cant imagine the craziness, if such player would come to league this days. McDavid is not comparable.

Why not?

 

[bobholly39]

Why not?

I think Crosby, McDavid, Lindros are all comparable to Lemieux actually. Probably the top 4 rated prospects ever. Lemieux was just clearly the most talented, and expectations were highest for him (Lindros was really high too though, probably a bit too much in retrospect).

I think McDavid as a prospect actually ranks 4th among all 4. Slight edge to Crosby over him.

 

[Staniowski]

The expectations were certainly very high. Everybody knew he was one of the very biggest prospects to ever come along.

In context, we had recently seen big rookie seasons from Stastny and Hawerchuk, and Bossy before that (Stastny was 24 years old, Hawerchuk 18, Bossy 20). So, Lemieux, late birthday 19, was expected to put up big numbers.

He had a good year, missed 7 games, but I think there was at least a tinge of disappointment the scoring totals weren't higher.

But he made up for it the following season.

 

[alko]

Why not?

Were there any offers including 1th overall pick in regard of him? No. He was a great prospect, that no doubt. But other teams didnt try such craziness like it was with Mario and later with Lindros.

 

[Big Phil]

I have always envisioned it that the demolishing of the just peaked Lafleur's junior numbers should mean that people could have thought he was possibly the next Gretzky actually. Was this the case?
Pardon my butchering of the english grammar.

That was the idea, he was going to be the next Gretzky, but 6'4". Not that he didn't have a ways to go. Gretzky had just gotten his 2nd 200+ point season in 1984, won his first Cup and won his 5th Hart. They were miles apart in 1984 but the idea was that he was coming, which he did. For several years after 1987 or 1988 they were basically 1a and 1b in the NHL.

 

[oilexport]

Only thing he did not have was longevity and health. If he did, Wayne would be taking a back seat in a lot of records. I grew up watching Wayne, Mario is the only one who could outplay him.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I have always envisioned it that the demolishing of the just peaked Lafleur's junior numbers should mean that people could have thought he was possibly the next Gretzky actually. Was this the case?
Pardon my butchering of the english grammar.

Correct.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Only thing he did not have was longevity and health. If he did, Wayne would be taking a back seat in a lot of records. I grew up watching Wayne, Mario is the only one who could outplay him.

Though he rarely did when they played head-to-head.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

I guess the expectations were really, really high. He not only had the unbelievable scoring feats in Junior, but he had the incredible size and speed to take on any NHL-er.

Even though Mario had a magnificent rookie season in 1984-85, he actually was slow to get going, goals-wise (despite scoring on his first shot). He scored twice in his first thirteen games, and 11 in his first thirty-two. Of course, for a normal rookie those would be great numbers, but for him a bit average. But then he got hot, starting in mid-January with a win over Edmonton in which he scored twice. He scored 32 goals in his last 41 games, which is pretty much unprecedented for any teenage rookie, and was a runaway Calder winner.

Hilariously, there were actually pundits in January '85 who said publicly that 29-year-old Warren Young of the Penguins was a more deserving All-Star Game representative than Lemieux. Sports Illustrated wrote (in Jan. 1985): "Young is not only getting his share of goals, but is also enhancing Lemieux's skills with his style of play." You can't make this stuff up: The oldest is Young

Anyway, a pretty incredible rookie season.

In January of 1985, Mario had not yet found the defensive end of the ice.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

35 years ago today, Mario Lemieux scored his first goal in his first game on his first shot on his first shift.



Every now and then, we see #1 draft picks come in with enormous expectations (Crosbv, Lindros, Stamkos, McDavid). How high were the expectations on a young 66? How much pressure was he under to be great?

Still have my ticket stub from that game. Last row, behind the goal, in the balcony at the old Garden.

 

[VanIslander]

A lot of people were saying "He's better than Gretzky" and it rubbed some of us the wrong way. I was in high school and was among many outraged by the lack of respect.

Gretzky had before then friggin' 90+ goals, 200+ points and several consecutive Harts!

Mario as a rookie, sophomore and 3rd year pro got to watch Gretzky put up three more 200+ seasons and 7 of his 8 consecutive Harts.

 

[oilexport]

Though he rarely did when they played head-to-head.

Yup, the stats speak for themselves. Wayne did better head to head.

 

[Neutrinos]

Were there any offers including 1th overall pick in regard of him? No. He was a great prospect, that no doubt. But other teams didnt try such craziness like it was with Mario and later with Lindros.

Teams made ludicrous offers for Daigle, was he on Lemieux's level?

It could be argued that McDavid was such a highly touted prospect that other teams knew the Oilers would never trade the pick, hence why no crazy offers were made

With that said, how do you know what offers were or weren't made?

There's also a salary cap now, so it's a lot more difficult to overpay when trading for a player

 

[alko]

Teams made ludicrous offers for Daigle, was he on Lemieux's level?

It could be argued that McDavid was such a highly touted prospect that other teams knew the Oilers would never trade the pick, hence why no crazy offers made

With that said, how do you know what offers were or weren't made?

There's also a salary cap now, so it's a lot more difficult to overpay when trading for a player

Still, when you ask some guys that lived that time, the answer will be in 90 % Mario L.
I, as a guy, who was 6 years old boy behind Iron Curtain in Czechoslovakia when Mario L was drafted, i know exactly, how was it that time.

 

[Crosbyfan]

He probably started with the highest expectations ever, with the possible exception of Bobby Orr.
Not saying he was expected to eclipse Gretzky, but Gretzky didn't have quite the same expectations starting out (though they were very high)

 

[Thenameless]

Why not?

I can give two reasons why Lemieux would have more hype and expectations.

1. Because of what he did in Juniors, breaking records. We also knew of McDavid at a young age (probably younger than Lemeiux because the media is better at these things today), but as they got closer to the NHL, I think Lemieux pulls away from McDavid performance wise, so the hype (at least for the time) gets bigger and crazier.

2. He's like Gretzky with more size. Lemieux is the closest thing to Gretzky with the immeasurable stuff - skill, sense, anticipation. Players back then were also a bit smaller than players of today, so Lemieux's size advantage becomes amplified. Even in today's NHL, Lemieux would still be considered a pretty big player. McDavid is known for his speed, but today's players are generally pretty fast anyways. Lemieux's natural advantages were more beneficial to him back then, than McDavid's are now.

 

[McFlash97]

I think Crosby, McDavid, Lindros are all comparable to Lemieux actually. Probably the top 4 rated prospects ever. Lemieux was just clearly the most talented, and expectations were highest for him (Lindros was really high too though, probably a bit too much in retrospect).

I think McDavid as a prospect actually ranks 4th among all 4. Slight edge to Crosby over him.

McDavid was the most gifted prospect out of all of them coming out of Juniors. His skill set was the most unique. An argument can be made for 66 or Eric. Sid may have been slightly more hyped by the average canadian but not the media and was not more gifted.

 

[Staniowski]

I have always envisioned it that the demolishing of the just peaked Lafleur's junior numbers should mean that people could have thought he was possibly the next Gretzky actually. Was this the case?
Pardon my butchering of the english grammar.

I can't remember specifically about comparisons to Gretzky at the time of the '84 draft or during his rookie year, but I assume there were some such comparisons, given what a huge prospect he was.

But i do remember the comparisons during Lemieux's 2nd NHL season. There was a lot of excitement about Lemieux that season. He was doing things on the ice - from a talent perspective - that I don't think most people had ever seen before, and his scoring increased significantly from his rookie season. I specifically remember talking to my hockey friends that season about Lemieux vs Gretzky. Some people thought he was going to be better than Gretzky, some people thought he'd be roughly the same as Gretzky, some people didn't think he was as good. Some people were wondering, how can we have another Gretzky only a few years after Gretzky arrived?