How high were Mario Lemieux's rookie expectations?

[Albatros]

I can't remember specifically about comparisons to Gretzky at the time of the '84 draft or during his rookie year, but I assume there were some such comparisons, given what a huge prospect he was.

He was given 66 already in Laval exactly because Gretzky wore 99. Though this was in part because they had the same agent who came up with the idea.

 

[Staniowski]

He was given 66 already in Laval exactly because Gretzky wore 99. Though this was in part because they had the same agent who came up with the idea.

Yes, Lemieux wanted to wear 99 when he was preparing to start junior in 1981, as he really admired Gretzky. Their mutual agent didn't think that would be a good idea, and suggested 66 instead.

 

[Victor Z]

I can't remember specifically about comparisons to Gretzky at the time of the '84 draft or during his rookie year, but I assume there were some such comparisons, given what a huge prospect he was.

But i do remember the comparisons during Lemieux's 2nd NHL season. There was a lot of excitement about Lemieux that season. He was doing things on the ice - from a talent perspective - that I don't think most people had ever seen before, and his scoring increased significantly from his rookie season. I specifically remember talking to my hockey friends that season about Lemieux vs Gretzky. Some people thought he was going to be better than Gretzky, some people thought he'd be roughly the same as Gretzky, some people didn't think he was as good. Some people were wondering, how can we have another Gretzky only a few years after Gretzky arrived?

And Lemieux, early on in his career for many seasons, didn't exactly have an All Star team around him.

It took 7 seasons before he had a supporting cast good enough to make a deep playoff run, but even before that time he'd become obviously elite. He even had his highest scoring season before the likes of Larry Murphy, Ron Francis, Jaromir Jagr, Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, et al were on the team, though of course by the time they were there Lemieux was missing oodles of games pretty much every season. If he hadn't.....

 

[bobholly39]

McDavid was the most gifted prospect out of all of them coming out of Juniors. His skill set was the most unique. An argument can be made for 66 or Eric. Sid may have been slightly more hyped by the average canadian but not the media and was not more gifted.

I'm not sure if you're trying to use the word "gifted" to mean something different - but Lemieux is obviously the more talented of the 4. If you're implying McDavid is more talented at ice hockey - you are simply wrong.

I was talking about hype though in my post. McDavid is 4th among those 4 - the least hyped prospect of the bunch. Crosby gets a slight edge over him (I think the lockout and full year away from game helped his hype, but maybe he gets this regardless) - and both Lemieux and Lindros above them. So if all 4 players were drafted in the same year - McDavid would go 4th. As to whether or not he should go 4th - maybe you could argue that a bit more, but i guess it depends how you look at it.

 

[The Panther]

It took 7 seasons before he had a supporting cast good enough to make a deep playoff run, but even before that time he'd become obviously elite. He even had his highest scoring season before the likes of Larry Murphy, Ron Francis, Jaromir Jagr, Kevin Stevens, Mark Recchi, et al were on the team, though of course by the time they were there Lemieux was missing oodles of games pretty much every season. If he hadn't.....

I'm not sure Lemieux's scoring totals would have been any better with or without some of those guys. Obviously, he was better off with some elite players to play with, but stockpiling good players doesn't often result in the best guy having career numbers.

Actually, with the exception of 1992-93 (which was an unusually high-scoring season for elite players, and with Mario's totals boosted by the Pens finishing with that 17-game win streak), Lemieux's per-game scoring paces weren't any better in 1989-90, 1990-91 (barely played), 1991-92, 1993-94 (barely played), 1995-96, or 1996-97 than they were in 1988-89 when Rob Brown was his line-mate.

Gretzky is a bit similar, in that he had his 92-goal season really before the rest of his teammates had caught up to full speed yet. And the Oilers often say the 1986-87 team was the most talented team they ever had, but Gretzky had his lowest point total in six years.

The thing with having a lot of good players on one team is that they all have to play and they need ice-time.

But a lot of good players is good for winning championships...

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

I believe the Mario draft year was the greatest tank-off in the history of the 4 major sports. So expectations were pretty high.

 

[The Panther]

I believe the Mario draft year was the greatest tank-off in the history of the 4 major sports. So expectations were pretty high.

March 6th, 1984 -- the great "tank off" night
Penguins @ Devils

Coming into the game, Pittsburgh was 14-47-6, while Jersey was 15-45-6. Unfortunately for Jersey, they won the game 6-5, thanks in part to Gary McAdam, who scored twice (he hadn't scored for eight previous games, and wouldn't score again for nine after). Jersey got its act together, winning only 1 more game all season (1-11-1), which they must have thought was just bad enough to be last overall. Sadly for them, Pittsburgh went 2-10 to end the season, giving them the coveted last overall spot.

Had Jersey only found a way to lose on the night of March 6th, 1984, Mario could have become a Devil.

 

[Passchendaele]

McDavid was the most gifted prospect out of all of them coming out of Juniors. His skill set was the most unique. An argument can be made for 66 or Eric. Sid may have been slightly more hyped by the average canadian but not the media and was not more gifted.

McDavid may be faster than Lemieux, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same sniping arsenal Mario had.

 

[McFlash97]

McDavid may be faster than Lemieux, but he doesn't have anywhere near the same sniping arsenal Mario had.

Throw some 66 videos at me and I will show you 97 Videos that trump it. Please go ahead.

 

[The Panther]

Throw some 66 videos at me and I will show you 97 Videos that trump it. Please go ahead.

I'm a big Oilers / McDavid fan, and I don't know how old you are, but if you saw Mario in his day there is no comparison here. There's simply no debate to be had -- Lemieux certainly had the better "sniping arsenal" (as Passchendaele put it) than McDavid.

It's not a knock on McDavid, who is one of the better snipers in the game today, though that's probably his lowest-ranked skill (he's way higher in skating, vision/IQ, passing, playmaking). Lemieux was just way better at shooting the puck.

 

[McFlash97]

I'm a big Oilers / McDavid fan, and I don't know how old you are, but if you saw Mario in his day there is no comparison here. There's simply no debate to be had -- Lemieux certainly had the better "sniping arsenal" (as Passchendaele put it) than McDavid.

It's not a knock on McDavid, who is one of the better snipers in the game today, though that's probably his lowest-ranked skill (he's way higher in skating, vision/IQ, passing, playmaking). Lemieux was just way better at shooting the puck.

I was talking about pure highlight ability. 97 has surpassed Mario in that regard. Mario was frightening and McDavid has surpassed that.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Can you give a definition of "pure highlight ability" that touches on anything besides your own personal enjoyment of a handful of Youtube videos?

 

[bobholly39]

I was talking about pure highlight ability. 97 has surpassed Mario in that regard. Mario was frightening and McDavid has surpassed that.

The only way McDavid has better "pure highlight ability" is if the guy in your avatar snaps his fingers and #66 doesn't make the cut.

 

[Studz]

I was talking about pure highlight ability. 97 has surpassed Mario in that regard. Mario was frightening and McDavid has surpassed that.

Only because we have access to more videos and highlights of McDavid, high def, more angles, etc. I would trade McDavid for Lemieux wearing 80's equipment and with a wooden stick.

Lemieux could play 60 games and not lose to Kucherov in league scoring.

McDavid maybe one of the all time greats when he is done. But he will never be better then Lemieux.

 

[jj cale]

Only because we have access to more videos and highlights of McDavid, high def, more angles, etc. I would trade McDavid for Lemieux wearing 80's equipment and with a wooden stick.

Lemieux could play 60 games and not lose to Kucherov in league scoring.

McDavid maybe one of the all time greats when he is done. But he will never be better then Lemieux.

I love Mcdavid but man, when he gets talked about as more talented or better then Lemieux I have got to assume it is a real young poster or love of his team is clouding his judgement.

I've seen enough of mcdavid to know he is never going to be a better player then mario, he just isn't. As great as he is,he just does not have the arsenal Mario had.

And I say this as a big McDavid fan.

 

[Boxscore]

I was talking about pure highlight ability. 97 has surpassed Mario in that regard. Mario was frightening and McDavid has surpassed that.

Not even close. Sorry. McDavid's highlight reel is more comparable to young Pavel Bure. Mario and Orr were in a class of their own, in terms of highlights and pulling the fans out of their seats. Mario did stuff that was never done before. McDavid does stuff done by hundreds of players, but at mach speed.

I've watched this game live and in person since the 70's and I would pay top dollar to watch Lemieux perform every chance I got. Yet I've never paid a penny to watch McDavid live. There's no comparison in terms of entertainment value or skill. In fact, I'll tell you right now that young Jaromir Jagr was twice as exciting as Connor McDavid.

That said, McDavid is the most dangerous offensive force today, and I think he's more exciting than Crosby has ever been. Again, we're speaking pure entertainment value here... not intangibles, etc.

 

[psycat]

McDavid over Lemieux? haha

 

[Boxscore]

And, to the OP... Lemieux's expectations were very high. But due to the situation he was walking into in Pittsburgh (and the fact that the NHL belonged to Gretzky in 84), the hockey community expected about 100 points, which is what he scored.

By comparison, I think Eric Lindros walked into the NHL with the most expectations in hockey history, outside of maybe Orr or Beliveau.

 

[Ace36758]

In January of 1985, Mario had not yet found the defensive end of the ice.

In the video of Mario's first NHL goal, he's hustling pretty good in the defensive zone

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

In the video of Mario's first NHL goal, he's hustling pretty good in the defensive zone

Its his first shift in the NHL.

 

[Tweed]

Throw some 66 videos at me and I will show you 97 Videos that trump it. Please go ahead.

Behold!

 

[BenchBrawl]

McDavid has arguably a better start to his career than Lemieux, but can he hit another gear? Lemieux hit it in his 4th year (168 pts), and especially 5th year (199 pts). This is where McDavid is at right now. Considering he relies on speed way more than Lemieux, time is running out for him to find that superhuman level.

As far as pure talent? With Mario, you felt safer and more secure he would actually execute his moves and bury the puck. In oyur gut you knew he'd do it. His talent felt more anchored. He was near maximum level at every offensive skills and was also more surgically precise.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

And, to the OP... Lemieux's expectations were very high. But due to the situation he was walking into in Pittsburgh (and the fact that the NHL belonged to Gretzky in 84), the hockey community expected about 100 points, which is what he scored.

By comparison, I think Eric Lindros walked into the NHL with the most expectations in hockey history, outside of maybe Orr or Beliveau.

i remember a 1092-93 season preview magazine issue, probably the hockey news. in the part where they predict the awards winners, for the calder it was

1. eric lindros
2. eric lindros
3. eric lindros
dark horse: anybody else

 

[Boxscore]

i remember a 1092-93 season preview magazine issue, probably the hockey news. in the part where they predict the awards winners, for the calder it was

1. eric lindros
2. eric lindros
3. eric lindros
dark horse: anybody else

That's right. The expectations for Lindros were mammoth, mainly because, unlike Gretzky, Lemieux, Lafleur, Orr, etc. who were drafted by their organizations and debuted for them, Lindros was acquired for 5 players, 2 first rounders and $15 million in cash.

Lindros was also fresh off a Canada Cup where he dominated among the world's best as a teenager.

I remember projections for Lindros were...

"Bigger, stronger, meaner, more skilled Messier."

"Lemieux's skill with Messier's toughness."

"Today's Gordie Howe."

"The type of player you win multiple Cups with."

The expectations for Lindros were ridiculous.

 

[The Panther]

Looking back at the Lindros hype, it does seem a bit over-cooked.