How Good Is Tavares Right Now?

[boredmale]

Backstrom and Stamkos? No. Maybe from 2010-2013. Since then it's Tavares, and look at their difference in linemates. I'm not saying he is clearly better than them for certain, but they are also certainly not clearly better than him. They are pretty close, but I would still give Tavares the edge.

I would say Tavares peeked from 2013-2015, he then had 2 subpar seasons in 2015/16 and 2016/17 while bouncing back this season to be a top 20 point getter

For all the people who are pushing the wekaer linemates argument, I would counter that with the fact Tavares probably got more TOI and leeway to do as he pleases offensively then a more structured team would give him(the one time the Islanders did adopt a more structured system(2015/16) Tavares had 70 points)

 

[authentic]

I would say Tavares peeked from 2013-2015, he then had 2 subpar seasons in 2015/16 and 2016/17 while bouncing back this season to be a top 20 point getter

For all the people who are pushing the wekaer linemates argument, I would counter that with the fact Tavares probably got more TOI and leeway to do as he pleases offensively then a more structured team would give him(the one time the Islanders did adopt a more structured system(2015/16) Tavares had 70 points)

I'm comparing him to Stamkos and Backstrom here. They did not play on the 2015-16 Islanders, but still have seasons of around 70 points playing for offensive powerhouses getting lots of time.

 

[dlawong]

Want to help Tavares to come in 2nd for the Ross trophy (as I think McDavid is kind of untouchable)? This is my tip for TML: make sure that this wingers will not run into him on ice. Give him space and let him carry the play in the offensive zone half of the ice. The moment you try to compete with him for the pucks it will back fire on you. It happened with Isles before and strangely enough his best chemistry beside the 1st half of last season was with Vanek and with Moulson and Parenteau because those three trusted his game and gave him tons of space.

So to the TML coaching staff, please let him have the puck on the ice once you get out of your own zone. His wingers no matter how talented should try to complement Tavares instead of competing with him and do not run into his path because he does not always has his head up on the ice. Make sure also that you cover him defensively because he is slow getting back to the play once trapped up ice. In another word, let Tavares do the creating/goal scoring and cover the defense for him when he is on the ice. If one of the wingers go to front of the net, the other one must hung back near the blue line so they can cover the hole if the puck get turnover going the other way. When playing against better teams especially if against the top two lines this can happen a lot because they are good at stealing the pucks. Over 60% of the teams in NHL have good top 2 lines in the NHL today. It is the 3rd line and 4th line that makes up the difference. Can't say the same for defense though. The contending teams normally have way better top 6 than the rest of the league. And then there is the most important part - the goalies because they are the last line of defense and there is only a handful of true elite goal scorers who can hit the corners all the time, score from outside the parameters and knows how to deflect or tip pucks perfectly).

He also need to be in the slot position on PP - do not let him play near the blue line on PP. Do not use him on PK (unless absolutely required) as it will tire him out after the 1st half.

 

[Blowfish]

Want to help Tavares to win the Ross trophy? This is my tip for TML: make sure that this wingers will not run into him on ice. Give him space and let him carry the play in the offensive zone half of the ice. The moment you try to compete with him for the pucks it will back fire on you. It happened with Isles before and strangely enough his best chemistry beside the 1st half of last season was with Vanek and with Moulson and Parenteau because those three trusted his game and gave him tons of space.

So to the TML coaching staff, please let him have the puck on the ice once you get out of your own zone. His wingers no matter how talented should try to complement Tavares instead of competing with him and do not run into his path because he does not always has his head up on the ice. Make sure also that you cover him defensively because he is slow getting back to the play once trapped up ice. In another word, let Tavares do the creating play/goal scoring and cover the defense for him when he is on the ice. If one of the wingers go to front of the net, the other one must hung back near the blue line so they can cover the hole if the puck get turnover going the other way. When playing against better teams especially if against the top two lines this can happen a lot because they are good at stealing the pucks. Over 60% of the teams in NHL have good top 2 lines in the NHL today. It is the 3rd line and 4th line that makes up the difference. Can't say the same for defense though. The contending teams normally have way better top 6 than the rest of the league.

He also need to be in the slot position on PP - do not let him play near the blue line on PP. Do not use him on PK (unless absolutely required) as it will tire him out after the 1st half.

So leafs essentially paid 11 million for a slow one zone player who is extremely creative and can't play pk. Sounds promising.

 

[Blowfish]

I would say Tavares peeked from 2013-2015, he then had 2 subpar seasons in 2015/16 and 2016/17 while bouncing back this season to be a top 20 point getter

For all the people who are pushing the wekaer linemates argument, I would counter that with the fact Tavares probably got more TOI and leeway to do as he pleases offensively then a more structured team would give him(the one time the Islanders did adopt a more structured system(2015/16) Tavares had 70 points)

Isle fans? who increased who's production more JT for Barzal or Barzal for JT?

 

[Pi]

So leafs essentially paid 11 million for a slow one zone player who is extremely creative and can't play pk. Sounds promising.

Damn. Tavares went from elite to shit in 24 hours (specifically around June 30th and July 1st).

 

[boredmale]

Isle fans? who increased who's production more JT for Barzal or Barzal for JT?

Probably combination of both helping eachother out combined with the System allowing to take more offensive chances then a normal system would allow. As I said when the isles bucked up(2015/16) we seen Tavares get 70 points(and I don't think their was much difference how good Tavares was in 2014/15 when he finished 2nd in league scoring with 86 points and 2015/16 other then the team system became less run and gun, which we adopted again to the extreme under Weight)

 

[King Mapes]

I would say Tavares peeked from 2013-2015, he then had 2 subpar seasons in 2015/16 and 2016/17 while bouncing back this season to be a top 20 point getter

For all the people who are pushing the wekaer linemates argument, I would counter that with the fact Tavares probably got more TOI and leeway to do as he pleases offensively then a more structured team would give him(the one time the Islanders did adopt a more structured system(2015/16) Tavares had 70 points)

Okay and I'd counter that by saying he'd always face top pairing Dmen where as he won't now.

 

[boredmale]

Okay and I'd counter that by saying he'd always face top pairing Dmen where as he won't now.

I would counter Tavares PP production increased by 12 points when we finally found that missing piece the PP lacked(highly skilled player on the left hand side, something that Strome failed miserably at the previous 2 years). Beyond that while Tavares more often then not got top coverage it wasn't always the case so you can argue his top coverage compared to previous years was less.

 

[dlawong]

Damn. Tavares went from elite to **** in 24 hours (specifically around June 30th and July 1st).

No he is still one of the best offensive players if you use him properly. He is never going to be a full two way player and that does not mean he can't help you to win games. Use his best assets but yes he can't cover defense when he is trapped up the ice because he is not that fast. It is just the truth. It is OK though if he helps on the score sheet. If TML improve their D (especially in the shutdown roles) and Anderson play well then Tavares can still help them. To use a player to full potential you need to know how he plays, what works for him and what not. He is 27 and will not change that much now. Burning him out on PK is not a good idea. Let the 3rd & 4th liners kill the penalties - is not what their rolls are supposed to be?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Damn. Tavares went from elite to **** in 24 hours (specifically around June 30th and July 1st).

He certainly developed this elite defensive ability since signing in Toronto that he never had prior to that. So I guess that offsets the drop in offense.

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Okay and I'd counter that by saying he'd always face top pairing Dmen where as he won't now.

He also produced while receiving the least amount of TOI/GP since his 2nd year.

 

[boredmale]

He certainly developed this elite defensive ability since signing in Toronto that he never had prior to that. So I guess that offsets the drop in offense.

I believe the logic behind that is their is some special stat that says he is good defensively. When I looked up the state a big part about it was revolved around contract amount(which would instantly give a guy making 5.5M an advantage over somebody making 7,8 or 9 million), faceoff ability(which Tavares is better then average so that was a plus) and the fact he plays on the PK(not how good he actually does on their though)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I believe the logic behind that is their is some special stat that says he is good defensively. When I looked up the state a big part about it was revolved around contract amount(which would instantly give a guy making 5.5M an advantage over somebody making 7,8 or 9 million), faceoff ability(which Tavares is better then average so that was a plus) and the fact he plays on the PK(not how good he actually does on their though)

I believe things like takeaways are also rated highly as a "defensive stat", even though the best defensive forward of our generation (Bergeron) usually finishes well back among the takeaway leaders.

 

[boredmale]

I believe things like takeaways are also rated highly as a "defensive stat", even though the best defensive forward of our generation (Bergeron) usually finishes well back among the takeaway leaders.

Most likely and I will say Tavares probably top 10 or extremely close to that level in that regard, that being said the stat in question putting value on contract seems to ignore stuff like eye test(and for the sake of argument I can't really rate Tavares defensive ability because I blame alot of Islander players short comings in the defensive zone on bad coaching, Tavares is no different)

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Most likely and I will say Tavares probably top 10 or extremely close to that level in that regard, that being said the stat in question putting value on contract seems to ignore stuff like eye test(and for the sake of argument I can't really rate Tavares defensive ability because I blame alot of Islander players short comings in the defensive zone on bad coaching, Tavares is no different)

Malkin lead the NHL one year in takeaways. I wouldn't argue he should have won the Selke that year because of it.

I just think people include weird things when determining "defensive ability", things that don't necessarily correlate to actually being good defensively (ie. takeaways, faceoffs, whether they PK or not, etc.).

 

[NoName]

Franchise centre, right now probably hovering around the 10th best Centre in the league. Defensively responsible and reliable for 75-85 points over a full 82 games. He is very good; he isn’t McDavid or Crosby and I don’t see him winning the Art Ross in this day and age, but if he leads Toronto to a strong season (which is quite likely) I could possibly see a Hart and more likely a Selke.

Tavares is good and is still in his late-prime (going to turn 28 this season) so he should maintain this level of excellence for several years more. There is a reason his choosing to leave New York for Toronto was considered such a seismic shift in the East hierarchy.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Franchise centre, right now probably hovering around the 10th best Centre in the league. Defensively responsible and reliable for 75-85 points over a full 82 games. He is very good; he isn’t McDavid or Crosby and I don’t see him winning the Art Ross in this day and age, but if he leads Toronto to a strong season (which is quite likely) I could possibly see a Hart and more likely a Selke.

If Toronto is as deep as people say, how is he going to win the Hart? Is he going to separate himself that much from Matthews, Marner, etc. to say he was "most valuable to his team"? All while NOT winning the Art Ross?

As for Selke ... yeah, I think he's got a better chance at winning the Art Ross than he does the Selke.

 

[dlawong]

Most likely and I will say Tavares probably top 10 or extremely close to that level in that regard, that being said the stat in question putting value on contract seems to ignore stuff like eye test(and for the sake of argument I can't really rate Tavares defensive ability because I blame alot of Islander players short comings in the defensive zone on bad coaching, Tavares is no different)

Most of his take away are in the offensive zones while on fore checking. The takeaways does not tell if a player take the puck away from an opposing player while in the O zone, N zone or D zones. If it happens deep in the O zone it is more an offensive ability rather than defensive ability like backcheking when the opposing player is breaking out from your own zone heading for a either a clean breakaway, two on one or 3 on 2. The stat can be misleading on judging how a player actually plays defensively. Sure winning the face-off percentage can help but then it again depends on if it is take in the O zone or D zones and winning the draw is more of a unit success not just the if the centre actually got his stick on the puck first because the draw can be only won cleanly if the receiver is line-up properly and take the pass cleanly.

Yes indeed Tavares can still benefit from good coaching but as far as executing it sometimes requires the player to have certain skill sets and I just personally believe that he has more of those on the offensive side than on the defensive side and perhaps. If you looked at Toews you would understand why his production slipped even the fact there he is a better defensive player than Tavares is to start with. Toews was over used in his defensive roles and the burn out from it has caused his play to decline over the years.

My point is while you hope each player to become Bergeron some just can't and if you force it they will become like Towes instead of Bergeron.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Somewhere in the top 10-20 range.

 

[dlawong]

I believe the logic behind that is their is some special stat that says he is good defensively. When I looked up the state a big part about it was revolved around contract amount(which would instantly give a guy making 5.5M an advantage over somebody making 7,8 or 9 million), faceoff ability(which Tavares is better then average so that was a plus) and the fact he plays on the PK(not how good he actually does on their though)

You may also want to look his give away stat as well. I do honestly hope he can improve that one and not saying that he can't.

 

[NoName]

If Toronto is as deep as people say, how is he going to win the Hart? Is he going to separate himself that much from Matthews, Marner, etc. to say he was "most valuable to his team"? All while NOT winning the Art Ross?

As for Selke ... yeah, I think he's got a better chance at winning the Art Ross than he does the Selke.

Again, I would say a Hart is an outside possibility, because it often is a team award as much as an individual (eg. No one is going to argue that Taylor Hall is as good as Crosby, Malkin or McDavid); if Toronto is a juggernaut, and Tavares puts up 85+ points and is seen as the leader of the team, then that might be enough. Crosby and Malkin both managed to snag Hart trophies even though they played with eachother (and are the best two centres if their generation), so did Kane when he played with Toews and Perry when he played with Getzlaf. Depth up front doesn’t necessarily doom MVP chances.

Again, to be clear I don’t think Tavares will win the Hart or is even smong the real favorites for the award (I agree Selke or hopefully Conn Smythe is more likely), just that he could possibly pull it off in hos current situation.

 

[dlawong]

Franchise centre, right now probably hovering around the 10th best Centre in the league. Defensively responsible and reliable for 75-85 points over a full 82 games. He is very good; he isn’t McDavid or Crosby and I don’t see him winning the Art Ross in this day and age, but if he leads Toronto to a strong season (which is quite likely) I could possibly see a Hart and more likely a Selke.

Tavares is good and is still in his late-prime (going to turn 28 this season) so he should maintain this level of excellence for several years more. There is a reason his choosing to leave New York for Toronto was considered such a seismic shift in the East hierarchy.

He was a franchise player while on Isles because first he was drafted by them and no one in that franchise during his time there was even close to him. On the TML he is not their franchise centre anymore and is he going to be really better than Matthews after both careers are over assuming the latter does not leave? Matthews is already better at the same age and by skills and size he is also better (faster and bigger). Stop saying the Tavares is a franchise centre because that implies that he is still with Isles. He is simply a star player not elite and will be valuable to the TML. Can he win the Ross Trophy? Possibility but not if McDavid has a healthy and productive season because he is just on another level totally. If McDavid can do that this early while his team not making the playoff then it will be that much harder for anyone else to land that trophy if his team improves next year few seasons.

Would I pick Tavares in my hockey pool team next year? Absolutely I will, but not over few players (those ones that consistently has been on top over the last 3 years).

 

[King Mapes]

I would counter Tavares PP production increased by 12 points when we finally found that missing piece the PP lacked(highly skilled player on the left hand side, something that Strome failed miserably at the previous 2 years). Beyond that while Tavares more often then not got top coverage it wasn't always the case so you can argue his top coverage compared to previous years was less.

Ya but compared to being on the Leafs now?

 

[boredmale]

Ya but compared to being on the Leafs now?

If Marner and Tavares click I can see them getting top coverage over Matthews(I am predicting though Tavares will end up with Marleau and Kapanen or Brown, Marner and Kadri and Matthews and Nylander)