How does Nolan still have a job?

[MayDay]

Personally I have enjoyed this season because they are finally doing it right.

Me too.

I mean, I never really enjoy losses, but am so jazzed about the future that it more than makes up for it. There's a heck of a silver lining to every Sabres loss this season - makes it bearable.

So long as the young players (Zemgus, Risto, Zads) and the prospects down in Rochester continue to look good and show steady improvement, I am more than happy with the way the season is progressing.

It really is the ideal scenario. The team sucks, but it doesn't suck because of the youth, but because of all the placeholder roster-fill that isn't going to be here in 2 years anyway.

 

[TehDoak]

The people will cry without their bread and circus. Personally I have enjoyed this season because they are finally doing it right. Dynasty here we come.

This is absolutely NOT the right way to build a team. But, given our lack of draft success during the video scouting era, its what we're reduced to. The right way to build a team is to hit on your draft picks and have a "core" group that rotates in young players and rotates out players past their prime to replenish the farm/draft picks used up when the team is realistically a player or two from contention. Detroit (maybe St Louis too) is the closest model to this, and even then, its limited success due to the randomness of the draft.

Doing things this way doesn't guarantee a championship, dynasty or even a consistent playoff team. Look at Atlanta/Winnipeg, Edmonton, Florida, Washington,and Columbus. All these teams consistently picked in the top 5 across several seasons....and have no championships to show for it (and only Washington is a consistent playoff team)

We're hoping to become LA/Chicago/Pittsburgh by going full strip down and build...but the reality is that nothing is guaranteed. Its just as likely that all this "suffering" could be for nothing when all is said and done.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

This is absolutely NOT the right way to build a team. But, given our lack of draft success during the video scouting era, its what we're reduced to. The right way to build a team is to hit on your draft picks and have a "core" group that rotates in young players and rotates out players past their prime to replenish the farm/draft picks used up when the team is realistically a player or two from contention. Detroit (maybe St Louis too) is the closest model to this, and even then, its limited success due to the randomness of the draft.

Doing things this way doesn't guarantee a championship, dynasty or even a consistent playoff team. Look at Atlanta/Winnipeg, Edmonton, Florida, Washington,and Columbus. All these teams consistently picked in the top 5 across several seasons....and have no championships to show for it (and only Washington is a consistent playoff team)

We're hoping to become LA/Chicago/Pittsburgh by going full strip down and build...but the reality is that nothing is guaranteed. Its just as likely that all this "suffering" could be for nothing when all is said and done.

Too bad every scout, coach, manager and analyst will tell you the right way to build a solid team is through the draft. It seems like you are contradicting the post just to prove him wrong when essentially you are saying the same as him but just elaborating on what he is saying.

What is the best percentage of hitting on your draft picks? Draft first overall. The poster is right. Maybe you are one of those fans who think all star UFAs come to Buffalo? Not a chance. The sabres need to draft top 5 and then build around those draft picks. You compare the model to Detroit and that is great and all but players love playing in Detroit. You seem to be blind to the fact that most players dont want to come to Buffalo and after years of mediocre the only way this team gets a franchise center is getting EXTREMELY lucky in the later rounds or drafting first overall.

No matter how you choose to build your team doesnt garauntee a cup but drafting guys like Crosby, Toews, Kane......McDavid definitely help.

 

[MayDay]

The right way to build a team is to hit on your draft picks

So you're essentially saying that the "right" way to build a team is to rely on luck, since beyond the top tier of first-round, the draft is a real crapshoot.

Yeah, improve you're scouting department as much as you can (and Terry has done that), but that still only takes you so far when it comes to projecting 18-year-olds. You need luck to have a high percent of your picks pan-out.

The only sure-fire way to reduce the element of luck is to pick at the top of the draft, where prospects historically have a much lower risk of busting.

 

[haseoke39]

Yeah, I'm also annoyed by the perpetual argument that the right way to build a franchise is to draft Lidstrom in the 3rd, Datsyuk in the 6th, Z in the 7th, etc.

It doesn't amount to a mimicable strategy so much as a congratulations to the team that got them.

The question for those folks is "HOW do you hit on more late draft picks than the average team?" Give us some pointers we can look at independently and question whether the team is "doing it right."

 

[Sabre the Win]

There is literally nothing to support this opinion. That it still persists is incredible to me.

Playing Reinhart on the 4th line, demoting him over bad play when your trying to get a feel for him thru 9 games is pretty much showing his incompetence with young talent.

so winning the memorial cup, (i know, it was a long time ago) and the way Latvia has preformed lately, shows his utter incompetance. let's let Cassidy coach the team (with all the success he's had up to date)

Latvia still lost and it was only the goalie that kept them in. Any other goalie on any other day would have let in at least 5 plus goals. Let's not confuse one very hot player with sucess. Sure they made it farther than everyone thought but they had an easier schedule. What he did in the AHL doesn't signify he knows how to coach in the NHL and his record clearly speaks for that.

You must have missed the point of my scenario. With my scheme, Nolan is replaced by Cassidy (not like it's a big difference). Murray finds a development guy for Rochester and Cassidy becomes the sacrificial lamb to end the season as he finds his out in the same fashion as Rolston did. Therefore Rochester and Buffalo get coaches they deserve and the tank stays in tact for this season.

 

[haseoke39]

On Nolan and young talent: I was more critical of him a couple weeks ago, and I still don't like how he handled Reinhart. If you know you're sending him back down, give him the best experience you can here.

But, I think his recent comments and utilization of Zadorov have made him look much better on that account. We'll see - it depends on how things play out moving forward. But if, indeed, Z had some specific fitness and maturity things Nolan wanted to see out of him, and if he's been able to fix that and get back on track, then we have to say that a month in the press box is a small price to pay for what might be a long-term lesson in professionalism.

Again, it all depends. If they end up in another tiff soon and he ends up spending more games in the press box than not, we'll revisit this. But I'm very much comforted by hearing the comments about how he came into camp, what he improved during exile, and how he feels Z is now one of their better players.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Playing Reinhart on the 4th line, demoting him over bad play when your trying to get a feel for him thru 9 games is pretty much showing his incompetence with young talent.

Latvia still lost and it was only the goalie that kept them in. Any other goalie on any other day would have let in at least 5 plus goals. Let's not confuse one very hot player with sucess. Sure they made it farther than everyone thought but they had an easier schedule. What he did in the AHL doesn't signify he knows how to coach in the NHL and his record clearly speaks for that.

You must have missed the point of my scenario. With my scheme, Nolan is replaced by Cassidy (not like it's a big difference). Murray finds a development guy for Rochester and Cassidy becomes the sacrificial lamb to end the season as he finds his out in the same fashion as Rolston did. Therefore Rochester and Buffalo get coaches they deserve and the tank stays in tact for this season.

If its not a big difference between Nolan and Cassidy why not just keep Nolan and then fire them both at the end of the season. Seams like you just want change because you just want change.

 

[Jim Bob]

Nolan has this team positioned exactly where the GM wants them to be.

Why wouldn't he still have a job?

 

[Namejs]

What is the best percentage of hitting on your draft picks? Draft first overall.

The key word being 'percentage'.

If you look at Penguins, they both drafted high and were lucky/very good at picking the right players.

What tanking does is it reduces the luck element in drafting, but it's not by any means a guaranteed way of creating a cup-contending franchise.

If the Sabres are unlucky, they could very well be a bubble team in 4 or 5 years. Or worse.

 

[Namejs]

Sure they made it farther than everyone thought but they had an easier schedule.

100% ********. Stop making things up. Thanks.

 

[Beerz]

Nolan has this team positioned exactly where the GM wants them to be.

Why wouldn't he still have a job?

Ralston had the team where the owner wanted them last year. Seems everyone is missing the point here. Bowman couldn't get this team out of the basement. But the team would still be better and not look so inept and lost

 

[Jim Bob]

Ralston had the team where the owner wanted them last year. Seems everyone is missing the point here. Bowman couldn't get this team out of the basement. But the team would still be better and not look so inept and lost

I don't think Rolston and Regier really had Pegula prepped for where things were headed.

I think LaFontaine, Murray, and Nolan laid things out and perhaps even laid it at the feet of Regier.

Add in Nolan's cult status in Buffalo and it's obvious why he's still here.

If a year from now this team is still a hot mess, then I think Nolan is in trouble.

 

[Sabre the Win]

If its not a big difference between Nolan and Cassidy why not just keep Nolan and then fire them both at the end of the season. Seams like you just want change because you just want change.

whats the difference if you fire them now rather than later? Both coaches seem incompetent with lines and strategy that is detrimental towards this team. If we're going to tank lets at least make it fun and watch some competitive play rather than witness a massacre at the hands of 40 plus shots a night and a corsi rating of -20 and more. I want to watch a team that's progressing even if they still lose and to at least I know they aren't giving up and hanging their heads in the lockeroom especially with impressionable young talent.

 

[Sabre the Win]

100% ********. Stop making things up. Thanks.

Switzerland in the qualifying match. Really? They may be hard to teams other Russia, Sweden, US, Czech and Canada.

Did you guys even win a game other than the qualifying game? If so there's another reason Nolan is tank commander.

I'm not trying to knock your country but by comparison you had the easiest division. Well Sweden did. This is about Nolan tho not the Olympics.

 

[Namejs]

Switzerland in the qualifying match. Really? They may be hard to teams other Russia, Sweden, US, Czech and Canada.

Did you guys even win a game other than the qualifying game? If so there's another reason Nolan is tank commander.

I'm not trying to knock your country but by comparison you had the easiest division. Well Sweden did. This is about Nolan tho not the Olympics.

Austria played Slovenia in one of the qualifying matches. Both of those teams are worse than both Switzerland and Latvia. We also didn't have the easiest group. You don't know what you're talking about.

 

[internet toughguy]

On Nolan and young talent: I was more critical of him a couple weeks ago, and I still don't like how he handled Reinhart. If you know you're sending him back down, give him the best experience you can here.

What does that even mean?

 

[Beerz]

I don't think Rolston and Regier really had Pegula prepped for where things were headed.

I think LaFontaine, Murray, and Nolan laid things out and perhaps even laid it at the feet of Regier.

Add in Nolan's cult status in Buffalo and it's obvious why he's still here.

If a year from now this team is still a hot mess, then I think Nolan is in trouble.

I guess I never realized the cult status of Nolan... I do now. Incredible.

 

[Sabre the Win]

Austria played Slovenia in one of the qualifying matches. Both of those teams are worse than both Switzerland and Latvia. We also didn't have the easiest group. You don't know what you're talking about.

once again I'm not trying to delve into the Olympics. Latvia showed tremendous heart and Girgensons is a shining example of that but someone used Nolan's Olympic coaching as a means to show he's competent and as the stats show, Latvia didn't win a game other than the qualifier which is why I got on the topic of the Olympics. I realize the quality of competition for Latvia in your division was tough but if you look at it thru the eyes of Sweden you would say it was the easiest division. Two sides to every story type of thing.

 

[haseoke39]

What does that even mean?

I mean play him in situations that are designed to develop the skillset he was drafted for: top 9, sheltered starts, some PP time.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

whats the difference if you fire them now rather than later? Both coaches seem incompetent with lines and strategy that is detrimental towards this team. If we're going to tank lets at least make it fun and watch some competitive play rather than witness a massacre at the hands of 40 plus shots a night and a corsi rating of -20 and more. I want to watch a team that's progressing even if they still lose and to at least I know they aren't giving up and hanging their heads in the lockeroom especially with impressionable young talent.

how is cassidy, who you say isnt that different from nolan, going to make them more competitive?

 

[sabrebuild]

This is absolutely NOT the right way to build a team. But, given our lack of draft success during the video scouting era, its what we're reduced to. The right way to build a team is to hit on your draft picks and have a "core" group that rotates in young players and rotates out players past their prime to replenish the farm/draft picks used up when the team is realistically a player or two from contention. Detroit (maybe St Louis too) is the closest model to this, and even then, its limited success due to the randomness of the draft.

Doing things this way doesn't guarantee a championship, dynasty or even a consistent playoff team. Look at Atlanta/Winnipeg, Edmonton, Florida, Washington,and Columbus. All these teams consistently picked in the top 5 across several seasons....and have no championships to show for it (and only Washington is a consistent playoff team)

We're hoping to become LA/Chicago/Pittsburgh by going full strip down and build...but the reality is that nothing is guaranteed. Its just as likely that all this "suffering" could be for nothing when all is said and done.

Love when i don't even have to defend my oen post. But just for fun. Context is king. Where the Sabres found themselves after the massive co-captains blunder and the bad luck of Connolly becoming average post concussion, this became the most likely route to success under the current rules. Detroit is an anomaly as has been pointed out. St. Louis sucked for a few years and their most important player is the guy they drafted in the top 5, not to mention they haven't won anything. Boston would have been your best bet to show me up, but even they got lucky. Lucky to bring in Chara, lucky to have Bergeron cone back even better from injuries and stunningly lucky to pull a 32 year old journeyman goalie out of the scrap heap and ride him for three excellent years.

The reality is luck factors into everything. Shocking. The best way to minimize what you can't control in picking players is to draft high to get your core and develop complementary pieces. Sure some teams will screw this up, Edmonton, some teams will be unlucky with who is available in the draft, Florida.

But most of the top teams have elite talent from the top of the draft. Chicago, Pittsburgh, los Angeles, Tampa bay, Montreal, and Colorado will be there soon.

 

[Namejs]

once again I'm not trying to delve into the Olympics. Latvia showed tremendous heart and Girgensons is a shining example of that but someone used Nolan's Olympic coaching as a means to show he's competent and as the stats show, Latvia didn't win a game other than the qualifier which is why I got on the topic of the Olympics. I realize the quality of competition for Latvia in your division was tough but if you look at it thru the eyes of Sweden you would say it was the easiest division. Two sides to every story type of thing.

No, I'm pretty sure this is an I-don't-know-what-I'm-talking-about-but-I'm-still-going-to-try-to-make-a-point-by-pulling-****-out-of-my-ass type of thing.

 

[Jim Bob]

http://www.thescore.com/news/623721

I feel like Nolan was extended by Tim Murray so he could be the sacrificial lamb. This is a team that I believe from the top down intended to be bad for a couple years while developing players and cashing in high picks. Nolan was a beloved figure, so Murray would’ve started his tenure as GM on the wrong foot were he to step in and axe him.

Nolan is a good personality and someone who admits to not be much on X’s and O’s (Danny Flynn was hired to do that), which means you’re probably not stealing too many wins. You can hire him to oversee the tough years, he won’t be bad for the young guys (character and work ethic are at a premium), then you can ditch him due to multiple years of bad performance just as the team is ready to come out the other side.

If he doesn’t go completely crazy in the short term, he’s the perfect escape goat.

 

[MayDay]

I guess I never realized the cult status of Nolan... I do now. Incredible.

He gets altogether way too much credit for riding an All-World Dominik Hasek to a division title in a year when the rest of the Northeast Division was hot garbage.