CatsforReinhart
Registered User
What? We are a poor puck possession team so instead of getting better players fire the coaches!!!
I am sure the next coach will hold the pucks longer.
How does Nolan still have a job?
- Thread starter BuffaloKatanas
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What? We are a poor puck possession team so instead of getting better players fire the coaches!!!
I am sure the next coach will hold the pucks longer.
The fact that so many people said we improved is kinda crazy too...Minus Vanek Miller Erhoff...add Gionta Gorges Mesz Benoit...yeah not even a chance for us to be better than last year
not saying that's what zman meant.. adding to the point
CatsforReinhart
Registered User
That is silly. To say changing coaches to a 4th coach in 3 years doesn't matter is just silly. Do we really need a fourth coach when this team is not ready to win??? When we lose next year we can fire that coach too! Maybe go for some kind of record like 6 coaches in 3 years? And then complain when the team has no chemistry and the players look confused on the ice.
This team is terrible. 99% of sabres fans want to tank and get McDavid yet we have posters here calling for Nolan to be fired among other silly things.
Sometimes I feel like sabres fans didn't get the memo on what the plan is.
Coaching matters when you are trying to win a stanley cup, when it comes to losing and getting McEichel......Nolan will due.
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I think we all know by now that Nolan has been a sub par coach at best so far the last year and Tim knows it.
haseoke39
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Anybody else think there might be a length to this leash? 24 goals scored, 66 against. Not just losing, losing badly, regularly. I lean towards thinking the organization will keep him through the year, but if this situation doesn't improve, I'm not sure.
Wisent42
Registered User
There are things to bash Nolan about, without a doubt, but no and then I hear that he is not good at developing young players. I don't buy that. Since a couple of games back it seems like our three youngest players have taken the lead on this team. They're getting plenty of ice time and responding well. The Zadorov case in particular seems well handled. He kept the kid out of the game, worked him hard, and Zadorov responded. It doesn't look at all like he is bad at handling and developing youngsters.
realistically, what coaches are out there are available to replace Nolan if we were to fire him tomorrow?
None. I would think Nolan will be here at least through this season. Ideally he would be here until this team is in a position to start competing. When that happens then I think Nolan is gone. GMTM probably already knows who he wants to hire.
CatsforReinhart
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Jacob582
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CatsforReinhart
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kenfury
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Wisent42
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Ruckus007
where to?
Maybe, probably. There's an obvious parallel to how last year started, right? There were a lot of people on board with Ron Rolston Tank Commander and, IIRC, when some rumblings about Regier being in trouble came out a few weeks before he was fired, the majority feeling on this forum was that it didn't make any sense.
Now I don't think at all Murray's in any trouble but haven't divorced myself from the idea that these 82 games have a value beyond simple accruing as few points as possible. If the performance of the team is considered an impediment to the overall rebuilding program, and Nolan is a root cause of that, then it should be addressed. If management thinks he's helping the big picture, then keep him. If they think he's setting things back, drop him.
As for who they'd replace him with if Nolan were fired, who knows? The organization talks Trottier up as the teacher of the staff, they could promote him? Torts was mentioned in this thread, I think Marc Crawford could be available. "Who else is out there?" is a statement that should never be involved in personnel decisions, IMO.
Dale Hunter left London to take the Caps job a few years ago, Kirk Muller was coaching Milwaukee when the Hurricanes hired him, so you don't necessarily have to limit yourself to unemployed coaches. From a selfish standpoint, I look forward to the first actual coaching search this team has run since before I could legally drive (am bored to tears of Bills coaching searches....). But it doesn't have to be this month.
joshjull
Registered User
The thing you keep missing is the GM that hired Nolan is also the one that put this roster together.
The NHL is a league where possession drives success. There are a few exceptions every once and awhile but for the most part the best teams are the strong possession teams. You need the bulk of your top players to be strong drivers of possession. Murray knows this and yet didn't get any players like that for our top 9 or our defense this summer. He said before free agency that was his plan. He was looking for vet leaders but guys that weren't going to popular with the advanced stats crowd (those were roughly his words)
-So we have a roster that has majority of average to terrible possession players (Moulson, Ennis, Hodgson, Stewart, Gionta, Stafford, Gorges, Benoit, The Mess, Strachan and Weber). We have really just 3 drivers of possession on the current roster; Girgs, Risto and Myers. Zads has that potential but its too early to say yet. But with that few possession players and that many sub par possession players leads to a horrible possession team.
- We also have no viable top 9 centers outside of Girgs. I don't know of any team that can do a lot with decent wings but just one possession or playmaking center.
-Our defense has gaping holes when healthy since 4 of our options are not good NHL dmen and certainly do not come close to driving possession (The Mess, Benoit, Weber and Strachan). Zads emergence has helped since we still have at least one decent pairing even with Gorges out.
Our roster is not built to possession the puck at all. Its also an uphill battle to get quality center play and we struggle to ice more than 1 or 2 passable d-pairs. The thing is Murray knows this. So why would he fire the coach?
Now once we go back to trying to win again. Murray will start changing the possession to non-possession player ratio for the better. Nolan better start the team moving in that direction or he will be fired. A start like this with a better possession team would have him fired.
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Chad Thundercock
Slayer
And to sum up the other side:
"I know this team is bad, and supposed to be bad, so there's nothing Nolan could do that's bad. He probably has a plan/system that I know nothing about, and can't speak intelligently about in any way, so *shrug*. I like him, so shut up."
"I know this team is bad, and supposed to be bad, so there's nothing Nolan could do that's bad. He probably has a plan/system that I know nothing about, and can't speak intelligently about in any way, so *shrug*. I like him, so shut up."
wunderpanda
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Wisent42
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No, we should fire Lafontaine for hiring Murray. Oh, wait... Well then, let's fire Pegula for hiring Lafontaine who hired Murray who re-signed Nolan. Bring back the regime from before Darcy. The one who brought us to the Stanley Cup finals. Those people would never hire an assclown like Nolan!
Honestly, I think there is more to coaching than just on-ice performance. This team, as we all know, is set up to lose. There's no coach who will beat those odds. So the coach's job this year is more about motivating his players to keep at it, to believe better days are coming, to work properly in practice and always give their best performance even knowing the deck is stacked against them. For 82 games. That's not an easy task. It's gotta be tough mentally.
To make a war analogy out of it: Murray is the four star general playing golf with the secretary of defence back at HQ, losing battles to win the war. Nolan is the captain who orders his men out of the trenches knowing they will be gunned down. None of us have any insight on what's going on behind the curtains, but my gut feeling tells me I'd rather follow Nolan in to battle than Ron Rolston.
Nolan is an awful, dated coach and the game has passed him by. Long gone are the days where systems don't matter.
But no coach could win with this roster. I'm torn between wanting the new guy to get here and start to imprint his mark and nudge the youngsters in a particular direction, and wanting Nolan to be here to avoid a coach having to take flak for the crap roster.
The team is bad and so is the coach. It IS allowed to be that way.
Only bright spot is that the three youngsters are our best players right now. I don't know how much of that is on Nolan versus on them simply being the only talented players with promise who are trying to improve and make their mark.
Doesn't matter. He's here for this year, at the very least.
Edit: JOSHJULL, did you say "once and a while"??! A typo that sounds like a Nolan-ism.
compete like world premier players on your conditioning sprint, because life is a ciiiiircccle and circles are valuable 
But no coach could win with this roster. I'm torn between wanting the new guy to get here and start to imprint his mark and nudge the youngsters in a particular direction, and wanting Nolan to be here to avoid a coach having to take flak for the crap roster.
The team is bad and so is the coach. It IS allowed to be that way.
Only bright spot is that the three youngsters are our best players right now. I don't know how much of that is on Nolan versus on them simply being the only talented players with promise who are trying to improve and make their mark.
Doesn't matter. He's here for this year, at the very least.
Edit: JOSHJULL, did you say "once and a while"??! A typo that sounds like a Nolan-ism.
compete like world premier players on your conditioning sprint, because life is a ciiiiircccle and circles are valuable 
NEcoli
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Tim Murray's comments on the coaching staff in today's Buffalo News:
As for Ted Nolan & Co, Murray was hardly effusive in praise of the job being done. He said he gave Nolan “carte blanche” to hire assistants last summer after initially offering some suggestions. Then Murray got to the heart of the matter.
“Have they got the most out of these players? I don’t think they have. Do they think they have? I don’t believe that either. I don’t go to Teddy every day and say, ‘You’re OK.’ I don’t steer clear, but I’m not micromanaging him or his staff. He got the staff he wanted, and I’m going to let them do their jobs. At the end of the day, we’ll see what kind of development there is.”
Easy translation: Just because it’s believed McDavid or Jack Eichel are really the goal of the season, Nolan isn’t getting a free pass. Especially since Pat LaFontaine isn’t around any more.
And since Murray insists he’s not going anywhere, no matter the clear eventuality of his uncle’s situation, Nolan best get a few more games like Saturday night out of this group.
Some other interesting things in the article as well. He talks about Armia and Pysyk, the possibility of sending a Vet to the Amerks, and his Uncle's situation. Definitely worth a read: http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mike-harrington/uncles-plight-a-harsh-blow-for-murray-20141116
As for Ted Nolan & Co, Murray was hardly effusive in praise of the job being done. He said he gave Nolan “carte blanche” to hire assistants last summer after initially offering some suggestions. Then Murray got to the heart of the matter.
“Have they got the most out of these players? I don’t think they have. Do they think they have? I don’t believe that either. I don’t go to Teddy every day and say, ‘You’re OK.’ I don’t steer clear, but I’m not micromanaging him or his staff. He got the staff he wanted, and I’m going to let them do their jobs. At the end of the day, we’ll see what kind of development there is.”
Easy translation: Just because it’s believed McDavid or Jack Eichel are really the goal of the season, Nolan isn’t getting a free pass. Especially since Pat LaFontaine isn’t around any more.
And since Murray insists he’s not going anywhere, no matter the clear eventuality of his uncle’s situation, Nolan best get a few more games like Saturday night out of this group.
Some other interesting things in the article as well. He talks about Armia and Pysyk, the possibility of sending a Vet to the Amerks, and his Uncle's situation. Definitely worth a read: http://www.buffalonews.com/columns/mike-harrington/uncles-plight-a-harsh-blow-for-murray-20141116
The "easy translation" is just more of Harrington's bias, but it's a generally fair assessment for how Murray should view Nolan's job security. Nolan should not be expected to win much, but get some quality hockey out of the future members of the team.
I'm not worried about Pysyk, he's going to be fine as he gets over his mental funk about his demotion. I'm happily surprised to hear that Murray likes Armia right now. That makes me think/hope he can be a quality secondary scoring RW, and maybe chuck Gionta off the roster before his contract is up (I'm sure Pegula won't mind paying up).
NEcoli
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