Speculation: How do you handle Toronto's goalie situation?

[Stephen]

Kinda embaressing to see Jeffler and Mirtle upset that Sparks has essentially lost his spot.

I think everyone had Sparks as the guy going into camp, and Babcock even flat out said he'll watch the games and let them decide. Well, Sparks hasn't looked good in either of his half games, nor his full game. Not just from a GAA/SV% standpoint, but even just watching the guy. He doesn't look comfortable.

And then Jeffler claims McBackup has a history of being more bad then good, when that is extemely false, when McBackup has had 1 poor season in the last 7-9 years. When he was first breaking into the league he had a couple rough years that brings down his career numbers, but even then he's a career .909. Remove his stint with Calgary when he first entered the league, and his career average goes above .910.

If you want to get rid of McBackup because of his age, at this point, the alternative is Calvin Pickard, who has good numbers at both the AHL and NHL level.

From a good housekeeping point of view, keeping the prospect you've developed for years (who may have untapped potential) vs an aging vet makes more business sense in general, but at the same time, Sparks isn't doing anything to justify keeping him. It's a tough balancing act.

 

[Matthews34]

Wins matter for a goalie just as much as S% and GA. Grant Fuhr didn’t have the best stats but when the game was on the line he shut the door and got the win.

 

[Menzinger]

By any standard, using wins within the same team for two goalies kinda matters.

Both goalies had the same group in front of them for the pre-season. In regards to McElhinney's wins last season; he usually played in the second game of back to backs. So tired team. He often played after long stretches of down time. And yet, he was money in the bank.

Wins is deff what a backup will be judged by.

It literally tells you nothing about how the individual player performed. Other than the team scored more goals than the opponent which has zero to do with goaltending

 

[Warden of the North]

It literally tells you nothing about how the individual player performed. Other than the team scored more goals than the opponent which has zero to do with goaltending

So youd rather a backup whos 2-12 with a 920 vs one whos 10-4 with a 910?

I wouldnt.

Luckily McElhinney wins and puts up good numbers here.

What he did 10 years ago is irrelevent. What he did 5 years ago is irrelevent. Its all about the here and now

Also, the goalie plays a part in the team scoring more then the opponent.

 

[Cor]

Yeah, McBackup has the wins and the great numbers. He deserves to still play. Sparks can come back up if McBackup doesn't play well.

And no, Sparks isn't going to get claimed.

 

[Menzinger]

So youd rather a backup whos 2-12 with a 920 vs one whos 10-4 with a 910?

I wouldnt.

Luckily McElhinney wins and puts up good numbers here.

What he did 10 years ago is irrelevent. What he did 5 years ago is irrelevent. Its all about the here and now

Also, the goalie plays a part in the team scoring more then the opponent.

Yes I would. Because that goalie stop more pucks.

And while it’s true that his play from 10
Years ago doesn’t matter, past performance can still help tell us how they may fair in future. Very rare for a 35 year old player to fair continuously better than they did for the bulk of their prime years. Very rare.

 

[Cor]

Yes I would. Because that goalie stop more pucks.

And while it’s true that his play from 10
Years ago doesn’t matter, past performance can still help tell us how they may fair in future. Very rare for a 35 year old player to fair continuously better than they did for the bulk of their prime years. Very rare.

Would you get rid of a goalie who stopped 93.4% of the shots he faced and won 65% of the games he factored into at the NHL for an unknown?

 

[Gallagbi]

Would you get rid of a goalie who stopped 93.4% of the shots he faced and won 65% of the games he factored into for an unknown?

Is that Sparks?

 

[Cor]

Is that Sparks?

Nadda, that's McBackup. Sparks has a cool .893 sv% and a 37.5 win% at the NHL level.

So unless AHL stats > NHL stats, McBackup is the correct option, until those stats disappear.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Would you get rid of a goalie who stopped 93.4% of the shots he faced and won 65% of the games he factored into at the NHL for an unknown?

If those numbers appear unsustainable given his lengthier career record and he's a decade older? Yes.

 

[CanadasTeam]

Kinda embaressing to see Jeffler and Mirtle upset that Sparks has essentially lost his spot.

I think everyone had Sparks as the guy going into camp, and Babcock even flat out said he'll watch the games and let them decide. Well, Sparks hasn't looked good in either of his half games, nor his full game. Not just from a GAA/SV% standpoint, but even just watching the guy. He doesn't look comfortable.

And then Jeffler claims McBackup has a history of being more bad then good, when that is extemely false, when McBackup has had 1 poor season in the last 7-9 years. When he was first breaking into the league he had a couple rough years that brings down his career numbers, but even then he's a career .909. Remove his stint with Calgary when he first entered the league, and his career average goes above .910.

If you want to get rid of McBackup because of his age, at this point, the alternative is Calvin Pickard, who has good numbers at both the AHL and NHL level.

Definitely embarrassing even when some kid named Dangle knows a bit more than they do Here's what he had to say in his blog about six months ago:

Dangle: Leafs fans should embrace Curtis McElhinney - Sportsnet.ca

For too long, and to this day, I still see fans calling on Toronto’s other goalies to get a shot. They’re not totally wrong, really. With Frederik Andersen having been out, the thought of seeing what Garret Sparks can do after the season he has had in the AHL so far is something that entices me, too. Heck, Calvin Pickard, who has also been very good in the AHL and has plenty of NHL experience, is behind him. The Leafs certainly have options in net.
For now, however, McElhinney is the option.
In 30 games with the Toronto Maple Leafs, 23 of which have been starts, McElhinney has a .925 save percentage. This season he has a dazzling .935 save percentage, which actually leads the entire NHL among goalies who have played in at least 15 games. He has four shutouts in his 23 starts as a Leaf, which matches the total from the 109 games he started with Calgary, Anaheim, Ottawa, Phoenix, and Columbus combined.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Is it unreasonable to ask if team effects had anything to do with Sparks' sparkling (pun intended) AHL numbers last season? He played behind one of, if not THE, best defences in the AHL.

From a relative standpoint, going from facing AHL shooters with an AHL-best defence, to facing NHL shooters with an NHL-average defence may be too much for him.

It's not unreasonable to ask, but I think I don't think there's much correlation between good defenses and save percentage.

 

[Cor]

If those numbers appear unsustainable given his lengthier career record and he's a decade older? Yes.

Ah, so give up the proven player on the possibility he *may* decline, and hand the spot to a goalie who has never been able to preform at the NHL level, whether it be regular season, or pre-season.

Luckily, it appears Kyle Dubas and Mike Babcock have made the correct call.

Maybe the Panthers can claim Sparks off of waiver, and they can have the super promising tandem of Garrett Sparks and James Reimer if Roberto Luongo gets injured.

 

[TheDoldrums]

Ah, so give up the proven player on the possibility he *may* decline, and hand the spot to a goalie who has never been able to preform at the NHL level, whether it be regular season, or pre-season.

Luckily, it appears Kyle Dubas and Mike Babcock have made the correct call.

Maybe the Panthers can claim Sparks off of waiver, and they can have the super promising tandem of Garrett Sparks and James Reimer if Roberto Luongo gets injured.

No call has been made as far as I can tell. Might be spiking the football a little prematurely there.

Also McBackup definitely will decline, it's only a matter of when. And I'd rather get out before that happens.

Sparks hasn't performed at the NHL level in preseason and on a team designed to lose when he was 22. Not really the best way to judge imo.

 

[Cor]

No call has been made as far as I can tell. Might be spiking the football a little prematurely there.

Also McBackup definitely will decline, it's only a matter of when. And I'd rather get out before that happens.

The beauty of it, is that backups can be found anywhere. McBackup is one of the best pure backups in the league. People underestimate how difficult it can be to win games, and play to the calibre McBackup has when you only play every two/three/four weeks. If come the end of November, McBackup struggles, and is 0-3/0-4/1-4 etc, we can waive him, and give Pickard or Sparks a shot.

It's pretty black and white. Babcock said he was going to let the three goalies battle it out. The most proven goalie has, as expected, been the best preformer, followed by Pickard, and then you have Sparks who has been pretty awful in his 3 appearences.

We are now expected to win. Babcock and Dubas care about winning games. Currently, Sparks isn't the best option to win us games.

It's as simple as that.

 

[Duke Silver]

It's not unreasonable to ask, but I think I don't think there's much correlation between good defenses and save percentage.

So do you think a goaltender's save percentage is unchanged by the quality of the defence in front of him?

 

[ShaneFalco]

They'll go with a vet who has performed well when give the opportunity IMO
And they'll probably let Sparks go so he can try to get playing somewhere else

 

[TheDoldrums]

So do you think a goaltender's save percentage is unchanged by the quality of the defence in front of him?

I think the effect would be pretty small overall. I'm open to seeing research to the contrary, but generally good defensive teams limit shots more than they specifically limit high danger shots.

 

[TheDoldrums]

The beauty of it, is that backups can be found anywhere. McBackup is one of the best pure backups in the league. People underestimate how difficult it can be to win games, and play to the calibre McBackup has when you only play every two/three/four weeks. If come the end of November, McBackup struggles, and is 0-3/0-4/1-4 etc, we can waive him, and give Pickard or Sparks a shot.

It's pretty black and white. Babcock said he was going to let the three goalies battle it out. The most proven goalie has, as expected, been the best preformer, followed by Pickard, and then you have Sparks who has been pretty awful in his 3 appearences.

We are now expected to win. Babcock and Dubas care about winning games. Currently, Sparks isn't the best option to win us games.

It's as simple as that.

It's as simple as I think Sparks has a better shot of being claimed on waivers. We have to waive two of them and I think he'd be the first choice for more teams. So I disagree with your premise that we can give Sparks a shot later, I think he'll be gone.

I think teams will look at his AHL performance and see a potential starter or 1B guy down the road.

I've always said I want to keep all the goalies and hope they all make it through waivers for depth.

 

[Drytoast]

You think we'll lose 2 goalies on waivers? Who out there needs a backup that bad?

Even if you don't need a back up...you are getting the 1/2 best ahl goalies last year.

 

[DarkKnight]

The beauty of it, is that backups can be found anywhere. McBackup is one of the best pure backups in the league. People underestimate how difficult it can be to win games, and play to the calibre McBackup has when you only play every two/three/four weeks. If come the end of November, McBackup struggles, and is 0-3/0-4/1-4 etc, we can waive him, and give Pickard or Sparks a shot.

It's pretty black and white. Babcock said he was going to let the three goalies battle it out. The most proven goalie has, as expected, been the best preformer, followed by Pickard, and then you have Sparks who has been pretty awful in his 3 appearences.

We are now expected to win. Babcock and Dubas care about winning games. Currently, Sparks isn't the best option to win us games.

It's as simple as that.

Considering we picked up Mc on waivers, your first sentence is quite true. Unless people believe Sparks is replacing Andersen one day, I don't get the indigestion if we lose him. He's a "maybe" relief goalie in the NHL at this point, I think a good management team can find another one of those guys if need be. We picked up Pickard for jack squat as an example.

 

[Ratboy]

McBackup is the correct answer.

 

[pucky]

Why is Andersen-Sparks leading the poll? Do Leaf fans here not know how to judge goalies?
McBackup is the best short-term backup but Picard deserves the long-term look for down the road. In an either/or situation, I'd drop Sparks and keep Picard. Between Pickard and McBackup, I'd give Pickard a bunch of starts and let him have some consistency (of games). Then go by that. Like other fans have said, Pickard showed in Colorado he can play and that was a pretty bad team then. Sparks continues to fail and he is only getting by on a good AHL team but he won't be able to cut it in the NHL - not now and maybe he won't be able to, period. The Leafs would be crazy to once again tire out Andersen with 60+ starts plus playoffs.

 

[saltming]

It's as simple as I think Sparks has a better shot of being claimed on waivers. We have to waive two of them and I think he'd be the first choice for more teams. So I disagree with your premise that we can give Sparks a shot later, I think he'll be gone.

I think teams will look at his AHL performance and see a potential starter or 1B guy down the road.

I've always said I want to keep all the goalies and hope they all make it through waivers for depth.

When a skater does well in the ahl we all say "let's see how he translates to the nhl" and there are many busts.
It's easier for forwards, less so for defense and incredibly tough for goalies. Sparks could win as many goalie of the year awards in the ahl, maybe even more than drew McIntyre, and still never, like drew, be able to crack the NHL

 

[TheDoldrums]

Sparks could win as many goalie of the year awards in the ahl, maybe even more than drew McIntyre, and still never, like drew, be able to crack the NHL

McIntyre won 0, so that's already happened.