How did Panarin for Saad work out?

[b1e9a8r5s]

But on a three-time Stanley Cup winning team with the personnel the Hawks have retained, I don't think it's safe to draw a conclusion on +/- as being premised largely on the calibre of goaltending all things considered.

As has been echoed, I think a number of stats are confirming what a solid player Artemi Panarin in, in his right.

It's just interesting that leaving Chicago (of all teams) and Kane actually proved the point.

+/- is pretty flawed overall. You brought it up initially.

 

[ITM]

+/- is pretty flawed overall. You brought it up initially.

I brought up the other numbers first and I don't think +/- is as flawed as seems to be the fashionable criticism of the day.

But I think the point remains that the optics on that deal are entirely slanted in favor of the Jackets, with Panarin proving his doubters completely wrong.

 

[Melrose Munch]

You really think this would happen? I see zero chance it does.


Yeah, of course Seabrook's deal is bad, but that doesn't have anything to do with the Saad/Panarin trade.

Absoultely. The hawks need 2 decenent defensemen and their back next year. Hammer, TVR, etc have walked out the the door which is why they suck, and the offense thin. Artemi loved it in Chicago. I think there is a chance he returns in 2019.

 

[Ocoee]

Everyone wrote the Bruins off and where are they now? Chicago will bounce back with great drafting and developing. They will cut some dead weight loose and be back to being competitive. You aren't going to be the bottom of the barrel if you have someone like Kane in your lineup. Crawford is not too shabby either, the injury to him derailed the whole hawks season.

Hossa was clearly the unsung hero on that team and a huge loss when he discovered his fake allergy.

Yeah The Hawks will be back after they fire their coach, miss the playoffs for a couple years, and retool. They haven't done any of that. The Bruins did a good job retooling but it is unlikely for any other team to follow that route successfully as fast.

 

[SabresSharks]

Just multiply this by 50 times a year for 10 years and see what it is like to be an oilers fan on these forums.

Surely that misery can't be any worse than what the Oilers' "brain trust" has inflicted on you.

One moron. 6 cups.

 

[Byrral]

Fair trade. The Hawks got cost certainty in Saad, a player they liked and had chemistry with the team. They also got a young, potential starting goalie on an ELC. The CBJ got a dynamic player that they needed and are willing to pay. They also got Motte who played in a 4th/3rd line role in his limited time before he was sent in the Vanek trade.

If Panarin signs an extension with Columbus, no matter what he signs for, this turns into a win for Columbus. If he bolts it would be disaster for them.

 

[Syckle78]

This deal was also focused around contract term. They now have Saad locked in at his current cap hit for 4 years rather than having to give Panarin a raise in 2, or trade/let him walk. Let's ride this out before coming to a final conclusion. Saad is having the worst year of his career, but what if he bounces back and becomes a consistent 50 point player again? If Panarin continues to put up 70 points every year, he will not be making $6M come 2019. A lot of what ifs, but this has plenty of potential to still work out in the Hawks' favor, or at least be even.

I love this rationalization. So you have a far superior play signed long-term. Uh,grats.

 

[stevo61]

I was told not to be surprised if Saad outscores Panarin and is a better 2 way guy... he is neither. Saad is better then his numbers now but Panarin is exactly the gamebreaker we were hoping for when we heard the news he was coming to Columbus

 

[nbwingsfan]

Fair trade. The Hawks got cost certainty in Saad, a player they liked and had chemistry with the team. They also got a young, potential starting goalie on an ELC. The CBJ got a dynamic player that they needed and are willing to pay. They also got Motte who played in a 4th/3rd line role in his limited time before he was sent in the Vanek trade.

If Panarin signs an extension with Columbus, no matter what he signs for, this turns into a win for Columbus. If he bolts it would be disaster for them.

Saad is unlikely to even reach 40pts this season.. there is 0 way to spin this as a win or even fair trade for the Hawks. As states earlier, Panarin almost has as many goals as Saad has points and he's not even a goal scorer.

 

[Oilers Propagandist]

Come up with an original thread if you want to join in on crapping on the Blackhawks.

How many losing seasons until the attendance reaches 2006 levels?

 

[COHawk]

I love this rationalization. So you have a far superior play signed long-term. Uh,grats.

I think I understand the point you were trying to make, but I don't think you know what superior means.

 

[Byrral]

Saad is unlikely to even reach 40pts this season.. there is 0 way to spin this as a win or even fair trade for the Hawks. As states earlier, Panarin almost has as many goals as Saad has points and he's not even a goal scorer.

You are only focusing one part of the equation, THIS seasons numbers. If Panarin walks the CBJ have nothing to show for trading Saad and Forsberg. No spin just reality. I already stated if Panarin signs an extension its a win for the CBJ. If not they have to take whatever they can get at the deadline next season which will be a big loss to lose Panarin.

 

[Rydgar]

You are only focusing one part of the equation, THIS seasons numbers. If Panarin walks the CBJ have nothing to show for trading Saad and Forsberg. No spin just reality. I already stated if Panarin signs an extension its a win for the CBJ. If not they have to take whatever they can get at the deadline next season which will be a big loss to lose Panarin.

I disagree. Saad is playing so bad relative to his cap hit that even if Panarin walks it's a massive plus for CBJ. The cap space alone is better than Saad is based on this season.

 

[Spazkat]

I suppose "better fit" would have to be the argument, but Panarin just seems the clearly better player.

And as someone mentioned, just give Panarin his own line. Players like Hartman, DeBrincat, whomever, it's obvious that Artemi Panarin can drive a line.

He's got the same amount of goals as Kane, two less assists (in the same number of games), but Panarin is + 17 to Kane's - 15. And Saad... has 31 points and is a -8 in 74 games.

But I'm open to being educated as to how Chicago didn't lose that trade.

This assumes that the point of the trade was to get the "better" player. I think it was more to get someone who could play well with Toews so his contract didn't look like quite such a disaster.

 

[Loseipeg]

5th thread on something that has years to play out...holy ****ing lord.

Blackhawks envy is real. Same fanbases every time too. Im sure ken holland wouldve done better.

 

[Bobby Orr's Knees]

You are only focusing one part of the equation, THIS seasons numbers. If Panarin walks the CBJ have nothing to show for trading Saad and Forsberg.

That's where you are wrong. CBJ have cap space to show for trading Saad and Forsberg. Which is more valuable at the moment than both of them.

 

[Byrral]

That's where you are wrong. CBJ have cap space to show for trading Saad and Forsberg. Which is more valuable at the moment than both of them.

Wrong? OK. Because Columbus historically has been a place that has attracted many top end free agents in the past, right? That cap space ain't worth crap if you can't fill it with quality players at fair market value.

The CBJ have been able to bring in players like Jones, then Saad and now Panarin by trading assets and having the cap space to pay them. Otherwise who is signing with Columbus over teams in NYC, the California teams, original six teams or places that have no state taxes. You think Columbus is on John Tavares radar to sign as a free agent even though they have the cap space, a really good young defense, a Vezina goalie and that he could possibly be the missing piece that gets them close to being a legit contender. Cap space ain't winning the Stanley Cup.

 

[ITM]

This assumes that the point of the trade was to get the "better" player. I think it was more to get someone who could play well with Toews so his contract didn't look like quite such a disaster.

But even subjectively, the aim of a trade is to maximize an asset according to your team's needs. So in this instance, if the definition is "better for Chicago" rather than "better player outright" the action taken still seeks to enhance rather than detract. And I'm curious what the apprehension in Chicago really was because nothing makes sense from what I can gather.

I've certainly read that Saad was envisioned as a replacement for Hossa rather than a replacement for Panarin and that DeBrincat was envisioned as (eventually) replacing Panarin. I've also read that the term on Saad's contract was also of interest when contrasted with Panarin's shorter term, price point notwithstanding.

So for the sake of argument, let's say that the plan was that Saad was filling Hossa's shoes at the risk of letting Panarin go for reasons beyond point replacement, and chiefly, because Saad's acquisition was justified along lines that championed that he's a better defensive player than Panarin. But a quick look sees Panarin as the more consistent player in terms of defensive (+/- ) record as well.

In either instance, I don't see the short/long term rationale behind the move. Was it something as simple as a gut feeling that Saad would be a better team fit for the playoffs as a result of Panarin's? Because that doesn't seem to hold weight when looking at Toews and Kane and their playoffs scoring records for the time Panarin was a Blackhawk either.

 

[nbwingsfan]

You are only focusing one part of the equation, THIS seasons numbers. If Panarin walks the CBJ have nothing to show for trading Saad and Forsberg. No spin just reality. I already stated if Panarin signs an extension its a win for the CBJ. If not they have to take whatever they can get at the deadline next season which will be a big loss to lose Panarin.

1. Even if he walks, they don't have "nothing" to show for him, as they are making the playoffs this season which wouldn't be happening with Saad and his 30 points instead

2. The same Forsberg with a 3.08GAA and .905sv% as a 25 year old rookie? That's close to no value and not even worth mentioning

3. They are either going to make the playoffs again with Panarin next season (which again is a win) or trade him for some very good prospects if he won't sign. So again, not nothing.

4. So your entire argument is that the Hawks got a vastly worse player for (potentially) 2 extra years? Congrats...?

 

[SniperOnTheWing]

Panarin sounds happy in CBJ and gets to be the main man on a good team. I think he resigns.

 

[Crede777]

Wrong? OK. Because Columbus historically has been a place that has attracted many top end free agents in the past, right? That cap space ain't worth crap if you can't fill it with quality players at fair market value.

The CBJ have been able to bring in players like Jones, then Saad and now Panarin by trading assets and having the cap space to pay them. Otherwise who is signing with Columbus over teams in NYC, the California teams, original six teams or places that have no state taxes. You think Columbus is on John Tavares radar to sign as a free agent even though they have the cap space, a really good young defense, a Vezina goalie and that he could possibly be the missing piece that gets them close to being a legit contender. Cap space ain't winning the Stanley Cup.

What?

Nobody actually adds talent through free agency anymore.

That's how you end up overpaying older players and handicapping yourself. Talented players really only move through trades anymore. Otherwise they pretty much stay put.

If you're talking about re-signing players once they reach free agency, Columbus has never had a problem with that.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I'll be the first to say I had reservations on Panarin. I believed the media hype. That he was all a product of Kane. I didn't think he'd fit in with Torts, and I didn't think he'd stay here.

All have been wrong. I think this is a landslide victory, as of now, for columbus. They kept the goalie they liked better (Korpisalo), got a solid prospect at the time (Motte), later dealt him for Vanek who has been good, and of course Panarin is as dynamic as they come.

I love Brandon Saad. I think he's a very good player. But Panarin is an elite talent. This trade is a landslide for Columbus right now, but obviously its only year 1 and things could change. What if Saad lights it up next year, so does Panarin, Forsberg bounces back, and both teams qualify and make runs? You'd have to assume it would be a good deal for both.

 

[CBJx614]

the funny part is we added Tyler Motte to the deal as well!!! lol Panarin and Motte for Saad

And then Kekalainen flipped Motte and a waiver wire pick up in Jokinen to get a 50pt winger in Vanek (8 pts in 11 games for CBJ)

 

[TheMalkinEra]

Kane has gone from 90pts player to 75 pts player since the trade, where as Toews has gone from 58 pts player to 58 pts player since the trade.

 

[dkhockey]

Get rid of patrick sharp and that angry walrus behind the bench