How Come Babcock Is So Unwilling To Make Adjustments?

[Bluelines]

More about his systems to me
The stretch pass is a great example

Hasn't worked well for a long time!

Not a fan of his obsessive line-matching either which was a disaster against Boston in the playoffs

Penalties were the disaster in that series.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Penalties were the disaster in that series.

Meh, they were out-classed and destroyed by Marchand's line for which they still have no answer for

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Can we get a similar thread for Dubas? Why can't he get us a dman? Why can't get get us some size and grit? Why can't he sign AM and MM now? These guys are paid to do a job. When they start listening to fans, they will be fans.

Nicely put!

 

[Bluelines]

Meh, they were out-classed and destroyed by Marchand's line for which they still have no answer for

Most teams have no answer. It's a copy cat league, once one team figures it out, everyone one will rinse wash repeat.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Meh, they were out-classed and destroyed by Marchand's line for which they still have no answer for

Most teams have no answer. It's a copy cat league, once one team figures it out, everyone one will rinse wash repeat.

TBH I think that's one of the best lines in hockey. Not really our fault we have trouble with them.

In our favour is.... we've gotten older/stronger/better/smarter each year and they've mostly just gotten older. We've also got the depth to play the rest of their lines hard.

Shanny does. And he has done it. Not a lot but a few times when he needed to. It will come out but Babs wanted to keep MAC. Dubas wanted Sparky. Shanny decided with Dubas. It sent a message which it was intended to do. Babs came on board after.

That's just ridiculous.

Both Babs and Shanny are big boys and will tell each other exactly what they're thinking and why.

No hidden messages in choosing Sparks, just a straightforward decision. And once it was made, of course Babs is going to work with it.

 

[ottomaddox]

I believe a lot of the "problems" people have with Babcock is his crazy rigidity and hypocrisy (at times).

Ten Fatal Flaws That Derail Leaders​

Zenger and Folkman's 10 Fatal Leadership Flaws

6) Don't walk the talk
This is one of the classic mistakes of leadership - not leading by example. When a leader sets out specific guidelines or expectations and then fails to live up to them, it will not look good to the rest of the team. Instead, the leader should be the first one in line to obey all of the conditions that have been put in place to dictate the actions of everyone on the team. Only when they are willing to play by their own rules will they be seen as having integrity.

7) Resist new ideas
Good ideas can come from anywhere, but some leaders are too stubborn or scared to take them if they don't come from inside their own head. Resisting good ideas that come from others is a typical mistake of a bad leader. It shouldn't matter where an idea came from as long as it is genuinely in the best interest of the team - and the organization as a whole.

So before I get into my issue, I'll commend Babcock because last year he was totally guilty of 6 where he buried Marner while NOT burying Hyman and Brown who were way worse, for someone who talked about accountability, where was it for plugs? This year though, I have not seen him do that to our stars and they have struggled at times, so I will commend him for walking the walk far more in regards to true accountability.

Anyways, I believe we have and have been having these problems for a long time:

Stagnant lines that are not really dominating outside of Marner and Tavares who have been clutch all season
Stagnant 1st PP with our 2nd PP being awful (if someone has the stats, please post them, I'd love to see how bad our 2nd pp is)

Adjustments that can be made:

Someone else posted these..

Kapanen. Matthews .Nylander
Kadri. Tavares .Marner
Johnsson. Marleau. Brown
Moore. Lindholm . Hyman

////

Kadri - - Matthews - - Kapanen
Marleau - - Tavares - - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Hyman

On the PP, here are my thoughts, do the regular setup for the first minute and if they are effectively dealing with it, put Matthews on the opposite wing, I recall them trying this and although they didn't score, I remember some good chances coming from it.

Furthermore on the PP, Naz has been pretty useless, why not give Willie a shot there and I say this as someone who has been probably the hardest on him here, but WHY NOT try him out????

Finally, what is this obsession with giving the clearly worse 2nd PP unit EQUAL time, why??? Do other top teams do that? Hell no, so why do we????

What bothers me about Babcock is his rigidity, I am NOT saying these ideas=instant ez better results, but why NOT try them??? I mean things aren't going great now, so why not make SIMPLE and STRAIGHT FORWARD adjustments;

Stacking lines taking advantage of our depth
Actually adjusting to teams adjusting to our excellent PP, forcing them to READJUST at which point we can just go back to the original plan
Making small alterations on the PP lines
Letting our best players have THE most opportunity

And before people start whining about apparent whining, this is just mean to discuss, we hold players accountable for mistakes, coaches that go on and on about accountability can also be held accountable for theirs.

Send Babcock an email, get a coffee with him, have a heart to heart, and see what comes of it. He might listen to what you have to say. If he doesn't he might take your other suggestion which is to resign.

 

[Mr Hockey]

I don't really agree with the changes suggested here...

...but I definitely agree that it's weird how rigid Babcock is with his lineup decisions. I thought with this young team he would have mixed up the combinations in every which way to see what the best fits we're, but instead he has always just decided what combos make sense to him on paper and pretty much stuck to them come hell or high water.

Zeke, Babcock has more experience putting lines together and matching players up then all of us on Hfboard combined. He is one of the best in the world at it.

 

[NastyKnies]

maybe because they're 27-13-2.

 

[GoonieFace]

Zeke, Babcock has more experience putting lines together and matching players up then all of us on Hfboard combined. He is one of the best in the world at it.

Didn't you know its comments like this that will get you listed as a sheep for refusing to question authority. Seriously though, he is there day in, day out with those guys, so I would guess he knows who works well with who. People think this is some sort of fantasy league.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Didn't you know its comments like this that will get you listed as a sheep for refusing to question authority. Seriously though, he is there day in, day out with those guys, so I would guess he knows who works well with who. People think this is some sort of fantasy league.

I have coached and know what its like, the coach sees every player's game in detail, during the game, practice, and in the dressing room. People on here want lines to changes every time the other team scores or the Leafs aren't winning by 3 goals, etc

 

[Bluelines]

TBH I think that's one of the best lines in hockey. Not really our fault we have trouble with them.

In our favour is.... we've gotten older/stronger/better/smarter each year and they've mostly just gotten older. We've also got the depth to play the rest of their lines hard.

Yep along with Gaudreau's line, Kucherov's line and MacKinnon's line, I'd be hard pressed to find a better one than Bergeron's line. Maybe Marners line is in the discussion but his line is more of a 2/3rds a great line than a complete great line..

 

[AreBe]

maybe because they're 27-13-2.

The way to beat the Leafs is to clog the neutral zone and skate at - not with - them
Dinosaurs here want the Leafs to give the other team the Philly Flu
The other team takes away time and space, they may as well cough on the Leafs, cough up phlegm
Babcock needs to figure out what the other teams have figured out: That the Leafs need a new way to - from the neutral zone- get through

 

[JT AM da real deal]

TBH I think that's one of the best lines in hockey. Not really our fault we have trouble with them.

In our favour is.... we've gotten older/stronger/better/smarter each year and they've mostly just gotten older. We've also got the depth to play the rest of their lines hard.



That's just ridiculous.

Both Babs and Shanny are big boys and will tell each other exactly what they're thinking and why.

No hidden messages in choosing Sparks, just a straightforward decision. And once it was made, of course Babs is going to work with it.

It may be ridiculous sounding but it did occur. When Babs and Dubas disagree they go to Shanny to resolve. It has not happened a lot but it has occurred more than once. On that one I got it from a parent on team and also from a buddy who works in sports science department.

 

[zeke]

Zeke, Babcock has more experience putting lines together and matching players up then all of us on Hfboard combined. He is one of the best in the world at it.

eh.

I give credit to Babcock for a lot of things. I think he's fantastic at the psychological aspects of coaching. He is amazing at molding young players into men.

tactics-wise, though, I think he's fairly mediocre, and that includes line combos.

and philosophically speaking, I think he would have been better off spending the last 2yrs mixing and matching more to see what works best on the ice in real games, rather than pre-deciding combinations before even knowing what his young players are all about, and stubbornly sticking to them more than pretty much any other coach in the leageu sticks with their combos.

 

[zeke]

I have coached and know what its like, the coach sees every player's game in detail, during the game, practice, and in the dressing room. People on here want lines to changes every time the other team scores or the Leafs aren't winning by 3 goals, etc

See, but a coach should be humble enough to not pretend he knows exactly the best line combinations before he even tries them out. It's all well and good to have a theory about how to best combine your players, but it's smarter for a coach to actually try out different combos on the ice and let their performance decide which ones work best.

 

[Mr Hockey]

eh.

I give credit to Babcock for a lot of things. I think he's fantastic at the psychological aspects of coaching. He is amazing at molding young players into men.

tactics-wise, though, I think he's fairly mediocre, and that includes line combos.

and philosophically speaking, I think he would have been better off spending the last 2yrs mixing and matching more to see what works best on the ice in real games, rather than pre-deciding combinations before even knowing what his young players are all about, and stubbornly sticking to them more than pretty much any other coach in the leageu sticks with their combos.

What tactics do you think he is missing? Zeke, it doesn't matter what lines he uses, fans will always want change.

 

[Bluelines]

Zeke, Babcock has more experience putting lines together and matching players up then all of us on Hfboard combined. He is one of the best in the world at it.

Zeke's spreadsheet says that Gardiner would be a better RW for Matthews, ergo Babcock sucks with building lines.

 

[Mr Hockey]

See, but a coach should be humble enough to not pretend he knows exactly the best line combinations before he even tries them out. It's all well and good to have a theory about how to best combine your players, but it's smarter for a coach to actually try out different combos on the ice and let their performance decide which ones work best.

Zeke, he has a blueprint of what he thinks is the best way to set up lines, he has been to the Cup finals 3 or 4 times. He is one of the most winningest coaches in the last 10+ years. I think the only players he hasnt changed up is Tavares/Marner, everyone else has been moved around?

 

[zeke]

Zeke, he has a blueprint of what he thinks is the best way to set up lines, he has been to the Cup finals 3 or 4 times. He is one of the most winningest coaches in the last 10+ years. I think the only players he hasnt changed up is Tavares/Marner, everyone else has been moved around?

He hasn't made it out of the first round in a decade. He can't seem to make his team an elite possession or scoring chance team, when many other less talented teams are. He's not perfect. We are allowed to disagree with him.

Especially when all we're suggesting is that he try all his options, instead of limiting them, and let the performance of the players decide which combos are best.

 

[Mess]

He hasn't made it out of the first round in a decade. He can't seem to make his team an elite possession or scoring chance team, when many other less talented teams are. He's not perfect. We are allowed to disagree with him.

Especially when all we're suggesting is that he try all his options, instead of limiting them, and let the performance of the players decide which combos are best.

That's what practice if for.

Try it out when it doesn't count or can hurt you and then implement in real games once tested.

 

[RLF]

He hasn't made it out of the first round in a decade. He can't seem to make his team an elite possession or scoring chance team, when many other less talented teams are. He's not perfect. We are allowed to disagree with him.

Especially when all we're suggesting is that he try all his options, instead of limiting them, and let the performance of the players decide which combos are best.

Not saying I disagree really, but how much time is enough...10?20?30? games together.
Some lines start strong and tail off. Some the other way around. Colorado is a great example of not putting everything on the top line.
How long do we give the combos? There is only 82 games, which sounds alot, but you want your lines set for awhile before the playoffs start so guys are more automatic with knowing where each other are.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

It may be ridiculous sounding but it did occur. When Babs and Dubas disagree they go to Shanny to resolve. It has not happened a lot but it has occurred more than once. On that one I got it from a parent on team and also from a buddy who works in sports science department.

Of course they have disagreements and of course they'll go to Shanny to get them resolved.

But that's not what you said originally, and that's what I called ridiculous. No probs.

 

[Mess]

I do get a chuckle at times when Fans think line combos solve all problems.

Sometimes its player personnel related and shuffling lines does as much good as shuffling deck chairs on the Titanic post iceberg.

If some of your team weaknesses are identified as too small, soft and opposition clogging the middle and disrupting the attack as stategies used to exploit Leafs weaknesses, then who plays with Matthews and who with Kadri is of little significance.

If my car is leaking oil, I don't rotate my tires and think that solution solves anything.

Go out and trade for a top 4 RHD and big physical powerforward that can play in your top 6 and give Babcock the tools to address the Leafs holes.

 

[-DeMo-]

Pairings should be juggled on D next.

Worth giving this a try, they cant be any worse:

Reilly-Gardiner
Dermott-Zaitsev
Hainsey- Oz

why would you want your best Puck movers on the ice for only 23-25 minutes a game vs 40-45?

 

[diceman934]

I believe a lot of the "problems" people have with Babcock is his crazy rigidity and hypocrisy (at times).

Ten Fatal Flaws That Derail Leaders​

Zenger and Folkman's 10 Fatal Leadership Flaws

6) Don't walk the talk
This is one of the classic mistakes of leadership - not leading by example. When a leader sets out specific guidelines or expectations and then fails to live up to them, it will not look good to the rest of the team. Instead, the leader should be the first one in line to obey all of the conditions that have been put in place to dictate the actions of everyone on the team. Only when they are willing to play by their own rules will they be seen as having integrity.

7) Resist new ideas
Good ideas can come from anywhere, but some leaders are too stubborn or scared to take them if they don't come from inside their own head. Resisting good ideas that come from others is a typical mistake of a bad leader. It shouldn't matter where an idea came from as long as it is genuinely in the best interest of the team - and the organization as a whole.

So before I get into my issue, I'll commend Babcock because last year he was totally guilty of 6 where he buried Marner while NOT burying Hyman and Brown who were way worse, for someone who talked about accountability, where was it for plugs? This year though, I have not seen him do that to our stars and they have struggled at times, so I will commend him for walking the walk far more in regards to true accountability.

Anyways, I believe we have and have been having these problems for a long time:

Stagnant lines that are not really dominating outside of Marner and Tavares who have been clutch all season
Stagnant 1st PP with our 2nd PP being awful (if someone has the stats, please post them, I'd love to see how bad our 2nd pp is)

Adjustments that can be made:

Someone else posted these..

Kapanen. Matthews .Nylander
Kadri. Tavares .Marner
Johnsson. Marleau. Brown
Moore. Lindholm . Hyman

////

Kadri - - Matthews - - Kapanen
Marleau - - Tavares - - Marner
Johnsson - Nylander - Hyman

On the PP, here are my thoughts, do the regular setup for the first minute and if they are effectively dealing with it, put Matthews on the opposite wing, I recall them trying this and although they didn't score, I remember some good chances coming from it.

Furthermore on the PP, Naz has been pretty useless, why not give Willie a shot there and I say this as someone who has been probably the hardest on him here, but WHY NOT try him out????

Finally, what is this obsession with giving the clearly worse 2nd PP unit EQUAL time, why??? Do other top teams do that? Hell no, so why do we????

What bothers me about Babcock is his rigidity, I am NOT saying these ideas=instant ez better results, but why NOT try them??? I mean things aren't going great now, so why not make SIMPLE and STRAIGHT FORWARD adjustments;

Stacking lines taking advantage of our depth
Actually adjusting to teams adjusting to our excellent PP, forcing them to READJUST at which point we can just go back to the original plan
Making small alterations on the PP lines
Letting our best players have THE most opportunity

And before people start whining about apparent whining, this is just mean to discuss, we hold players accountable for mistakes, coaches that go on and on about accountability can also be held accountable for theirs.

Mis timed nonsense.