How can McDavid pass Malkin all time?

[Varan]

I'm not sure what confuses me more. The fact that you don't seem to understand how close the relationship between points and points per game is, your continued insistence on bringing up Lemieux in a discussion that has nothing to do with Lemieux, or how you want it to appear that winning the Art Ross by a margin of 6 points is "next to zero separation".

Actually, I should rephrase that. It doesn't confuse me. It's just an outrageously poor argumentative technique, attempting to divert from the subject at hand by either feigning ignorance or actually attempting to switch topics.

Games played matters, and is a good thing. Because they allow players to get more points, which is a positive thing for the team. I sincerely hope that I don't have to explain why actual points scored instead of just pace is a good thing.

Either way, McDavid led the league in points per game and in points the last two seasons, and won the Art Ross both years. So if you want to count Crosby's league leading P/G and his league leading total points as two accomplishments, then logically you'll do the same thing for McDavid.

there's no point in continuing to engage penguinspeed, it's like talking to a brick wall. you already won lol

 

[beoser]

More like how can McDavid pass Matthews

 

[Crosbyfan]

More like how can McDavid pass Matthews

...and squeak into the top 100

 

[CanadienShark]

I think he can. Unlike Malkin, McDavid needs to continue being healthy. When it comes to the regular season hardware, I’m confident McDavid will eclipse Malkin and relatively soon.

Playoffs are a different story as Cups are a team achievement and let’s be real: the Penguins are a better team than what McDavid has with the Oilers. There’s only so much an invidual can do for a team.

There’s also a certain pro Crosby everything guy who constantly mentions McDavids playoff performance, but considering he’s played only 13 games, it’s not a big enough sample size to determine if he’ll be successful or not, no matter what that guy says.

And Malkin is downright dominant in the playoffs, which you downplay.

 

[Zuluss]

I like Malkin and I actually think he is more talented than either Ovechkin or Crosby.
Unfortunately, Malkin just cannot stay healthy, he has 4 top10 finishes in points in 12 seasons he spent in the league. That's less than what Nick Backstrom has, to give it some perspective.

I am looking forward to McDavid surpassing Malkin's peak (11/12), which McDavid has not done yet, but I think he is capable of doing it. Basically, given what McDavid has already done, the year he does that, he is ahead of Malkin in terms of career.

If that never happens (which would be a shame), I'd say 2-3 seasons like 17/18 plus reasonable longevity will put McDavid ahead.

 

[Satire]

Malkin has been in the league 10 years longer and is a playoff god. It will be a while before Mcdavid surpasses his achievements.

Do I think Mcdavid is a better player? Yes. Do I think Mcdavid is the more accomplished player? No. Not even close.

What does he need to do to surpass him? He needs to play another 10 years and do what he is projecting to do and show us what he is capable of doing in the playoffs.

 

[karnige]

is this a debate. mcdavid had 108 points with an enemic PP and no help. imagine mcdavid on the pens. seriously if people can't see how good he is without help, imagine how he is with a real team.

 

[Kshahdoo]

This. Malkin is a great player, no doubt, but injuries and inconsistency have made for quite an up and down career. I think people on this site tend to often rate him by his peak when he hasn't always been that guy.

From an individual awards standpoint, McDavid is close to matching Malkin after just 3 years. I think it would be quite the disappointment for McDavid if he doesn't eventually surpass him.

Yeah, and Malkin was competing against prime Crosby and Ovechkin. Who's going to compete McDavid against? Prime Matthews and Eichel? They aren't even close to Crosby and Ovi's level.

 

[Laineux]

Yeah, and Malkin was competing against prime Crosby and Ovechkin. Who's going to compete McDavid against? Prime Matthews and Eichel? They aren't even close to Crosby and Ovi's level.

Well McDavid just beat out Malkin who had one of the best seasons of his career.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Well McDavid just beat out Malkin who had one of the best seasons of his career.

Do you mean, he beat 32 year old Malkin, when Geno drove his team to the playoffs and then significantly slowed down, preparing to the playoffs? While McDavid started to score, when his team was already out of the playoffs race?

 

[Tad Mikowsky]

Do you mean, he beat 32 year old Malkin, when Geno drove his team to the playoffs and then significantly slowed down, preparing to the playoffs? While McDavid started to score, when his team was already out of the playoffs race?

The whole “McDavid scored when it didn’t matter” narrative needs to die. McDavid was scoring at the same rate the previous season where his team made the playoffs.

Also, a whole lotta good Malkin did saving himself for playoffs this season.

 

[Kshahdoo]

The whole “McDavid scored when it didn’t matter” narrative needs to die. McDavid was scoring at the same rate the previous season where his team made the playoffs.

Also, a whole lotta good Malkin did saving himself for playoffs this season.

Well, he's 32 year old made of glass player, what did you expect? But he still is able to compete vs McDavid.

And sorry, but it was exactly the case... McDavid didn't look that great, when his team still had chances to advance to the playoffs. And it's not just me. Ask those people, who didn't vote him even as top3 for the Hart.

 

[daver]

They both have 2 Art Ross, both have a Hart, Ted Lindsay (CM most likely will win another this year). Malkin has a Conn Smythe (a DOMINANT one), and 3 cups on him.

What does McDavid need to do to pass Malkin all time?

Play more seasons for starters, then ask this question again. Malkin is a likely a Top 20 Centre and Top 50 player all-time. There is no precedence on where McDavid would rank after three seasons.

Malkin's first three years >= McDavid's first three years, so McDavid has some catching up to do albeit not very much over the next two seasons.

I would also qualify Malkin's 11/12 season as being a clear tier above either of McDavid's Art Rosses and would rate Malkin's 08/09 higher too but just by a bit.

For the inevitable backlash that McDavid finished more points ahead of 2nd place than Malkin ever did, piss off with that BS or acknowledge that Malkin's rookie season >>>> McDavid's.

 

[Spirit of 67]

They both have 2 Art Ross, both have a Hart, Ted Lindsay (CM most likely will win another this year). Malkin has a Conn Smythe (a DOMINANT one), and 3 cups on him.

What does McDavid need to do to pass Malkin all time?

Seems like a bizarre question.

He's been in the league for 3 seasons and has been pretty dominant. His best years should be ahead of him. He has plenty of runway to "pass" Malkin.

The better question may be, when will he be considered the better player all time?

 

[daver]

Well, he's 32 year old made of glass player, what did you expect? But he still is able to compete vs McDavid.

And sorry, but it was exactly the case... McDavid didn't look that great, when his team still had chances to advance to the playoffs. And it's not just me. Ask those people, who didn't vote him even as top3 for the Hart.

McDavid was always ahead of McKinnon and Hall in scoring, I think, when his team still had a chance. He would have certainly been at or above them as a Hart contender given how he was also "carrying" his team like Mac and Hall were.

 

[daver]

There's no chance he doesn't pass Crosby. If mcdavid doesn't get injured during his peak like sid then he will have the best career since peak lemieux. There's a chance that he might reach that level of dominance, his speed is such an anomaly when you put it together with his other hockey talents. The game where he scored 4 he had about 3 or 4 more open lanes/breakaways to the net where he didn't score. All just because of his speed

He has to have some serious playoff success to compliment his regular season success. Crosby is close to, if not already, one of just a handful of players to have both a regular season resume and a playoff resume that would both be Top 15 all-time.

 

[Kshahdoo]

McDavid was always ahead of McKinnon and Hall in scoring, I think, when his team still had a chance. He would have certainly been at or above them as a Hart contender given how he was also "carrying" his team like Mac and Hall were.

I belive, MacKinnon had a way better PPG, than McDavid during the season. And still finished with the same PPG despite McDavid's 36 points in the last 21 games. As to Hall, he scored 41 more points in 6 less games, than the next best scorer on his team.

 

[daver]

I belive, MacKinnon had a way better PPG, than McDavid during the season. And still finished with the same PPG despite McDavid's 36 points in the last 21 games. As to Hall, he scored 41 more points in 6 less games, than the next best scorer on his team.

You make a point and actually a better point than the poster you were responding to. The voter would have had a tough time picking between the three of them given McDavid lead them in points at the time the Oilers were still alive.

 

[daver]

The whole “McDavid scored when it didn’t matter” narrative needs to die. McDavid was scoring at the same rate the previous season where his team made the playoffs.

Also, a whole lotta good Malkin did saving himself for playoffs this season.

TRIGGER ALERT!

The following could be construed as downplaying McDavid.


The whole "McDavid was scoring at the same rate the previous season where his team made the playoffs" needs to die.

His rate, when it mattered, was good for about 5th best rate for most of the season. Thru the 60 game mark:

NHL.com - Stats

Kuch, McKinnon, and Malkin were all clearly scoring at a better rate. Would you agree that they were all were better than McDavid at that point?

And given that they, along with Giroux, all finished with a higher PPG at year's end than McDavid did 16/17, do you also agree they were better than McDavid was the year before?

 

[JianYang]

It seems kind of random to compare him with malkin. Why did the op specifically choose him?

 

[ManofSteel55]

They both have 2 Art Ross, both have a Hart, Ted Lindsay (CM most likely will win another this year). Malkin has a Conn Smythe (a DOMINANT one), and 3 cups on him.

What does McDavid need to do to pass Malkin all time?

Keep doing what he's doing. Win a couple of cups maybe.

 

[DickSmehlik]

Honestly it isn't going to be that hard. A couple of more scoring titles should do the trick.

Not too concerned about Cups. Not McDavid's fault he wasn't drafted by the same team that has Crosby.

 

[daver]

Honestly it isn't going to be that hard. A couple of more scoring titles should do the trick.

Not too concerned about Cups. Not McDavid's fault he wasn't drafted by the same team that has Crosby.

If he doesn't do better than 3rd on his team in playoff scoring it should.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

If he doesn't do better than 3rd on his team in playoff scoring it should.

Stanley cup 1 - 2008 - Malkin 36 points, Crosby 31.
Stanley cup 2 - 2016 - Kessel 22 points, Crosby 19
Stanley cup 3 - 2017 - Malkin 28 points, Crosby 27 points.

He has never lead his team in points when winning the cup.

in 2014

Crosby had 9 points in 13 games
Malkin had 14 in 13, Jokinen had 10 in 13.

Maybe you should stop going off small f***ing sample sizes.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

-Peak Malkin put up 36 points in the 2009 playoffs. That is the best in the last 25 years of hockey. I dont see Mcdavid ever breaking this or averaging 1.5 points per game in the playoffs. The Oilers can start their excuses as to why they have all those number 1 picks and they cant do anything with them and Mcdavid is alone on the Oilers with no other players.