Rumor: Horvat Rumblings 2

[goonybird]

Leafs don't have much. Canucks would get more from NJ, LA, Boston etc. They seem to have much better prospect. I want at least a Lysell, Clark etc.

Graeme Clarke it is

 

[jackjohnson]

One, Horvat isn't a 1st line C, he's a having a great year so far, but nobody thinks he's a 1st line C and he certainly wouldn't be on the Kings.

Two, no team gives up two blue chippers for a rental and a goalie, it doesn't happen and it certainly wouldn't here, rentals don't have that kind of value and there is far too much parody with goalies, hence why they don't get returns like that, not to mention a 1st on top of that.

Trades like this simply don't happen with returns like that.

If we traded both, Demko would have to be healthy and would have to show as much on the ice, and we would get good prospects (not blue chippers), 1st rounder(s), 2nd and 3rd rounders, some sort of mix of that.

First of all, there has been no precedent set where a team trades their top 6 center and starting goalie in a package. So you are just guessing what the return will be like. Secondly, find me teams that are trading good young goalies like Demko right now? GMs also look at the whole history of the goalie and not what he did 5 games ago and base their value on that, it's doesn't work like HFboards where the goalie's play history is forgotten except the last 15 games he played and goalies easily rebound back to form. Demko has played 140 or so games in NHL already so he isn't a flash in the pan. Horvat is also a top 6 center and can be a 1st line center on some NHL teams. You conveniently use Demko's recent play to gauge his trade value so why not use the same logic on Horvat who has 32 goals right now and those are 1st line center numbers. You can't pick and choose stats to fit your trade narrative. Also both players would be core type of players that have leadership qualities, it's not like some complimentary player that a team trades and would easily push a playoff team to cup contenders if they land both so it is worth to give two top prospects and a 1st. Even if Horvat was a rental, Demko is not and that's worth a lot

 

[DevilsHughes86]

Wasn't he traded yesterday afternoon?

 

[RandV]

NJ trading for Quinn Hughes is literally the last thing we need. We are loaded at D right now. As it stands we have Hamilton, Marino, Siegenthaler locked up long term & we have 2 more bluechip prospects in Luke Hughes & Nemec joining the team (Casey is also becoming a bluechip, Mukhamadullin, Bahl etc). On the other hand NJ is in a desperate need for a top 6 winger. Our cap space is running thin & there's only one more big move we can make & if we're doing it it's going to be for a big power forward. If we get Quinn we then can't acquire the player we desperately need. Besides we can just wait another 3 seasons and sign Quinn for free.

Sometimes fans can just really miss the mark. If Vancouver was actually willing to trade Hughes he'd immediately be New Jersey's 2nd best dman by a decent margin and you cash in on that Hughes connection for 5 playoff runs. You're 'wait to get him for free' concept doesn't count this playoff run and is also short a year, I mean if New Jersey has arrived now that can be a teams entire window of contention. And at the end of it chances are they probably won't have up to $10M cap space conveniently lying around to fit Hughes in.

 

[krutovsdonut]

mods can you fix the typo in thread title? should be "ramblings"

 

[McDuffz88]

Sometimes fans can just really miss the mark. If Vancouver was actually willing to trade Hughes he'd immediately be New Jersey's 2nd best dman by a decent margin and you cash in on that Hughes connection for 5 playoff runs. You're 'wait to get him for free' concept doesn't count this playoff run and is also short a year, I mean if New Jersey has arrived now that can be a teams entire window of contention. And at the end of it chances are they probably won't have up to $10M cap space conveniently lying around to fit Hughes in.

I'm not missing the mark at all. Would Quinn Hughes make the Devils a better team? Absolutely, just like he would make any team he joins better. But the real question is would he make us a better team rather than us acquiring a true top line power forward instead of him? Absolutely not. NJ's biggest need is a power forward elite winger & we don't have anyone in the prospect pipeline who fits that bill. NJ has dman prospects lined up around the block half of which are bluechip top 2 dman prospects (Luke Hughes, Nemec, Casey). We also have only ONE more big move left due to the cap. If we get Quinn then we have 0 chance to address our biggest weakness which is an elite winger. Our d core/prospect pipeline is so stacked that players like Mukhamadullin etc are afterthoughts.

 

[David71]

lets just say he does indeed get traded before the all star break does he still represent vancouver?

 

[PredsForPresidents]

lets just say he does indeed get traded before the all star break does he still represent vancouver?

No, for one he was voted in by the fans so he'll rep whatever team he's on when the all-star break occurs. Even if he was Vancouver's only rep they'd probably remove him and replace him with another player on Van, or make some sort of exception so he can still play and still have a Van representative.

 

[Hisch13r]

I'm not missing the mark at all. Would Quinn Hughes make the Devils a better team? Absolutely, just like he would make any team he joins better. But the real question is would he make us a better team rather than us acquiring a true top line power forward instead of him? Absolutely not. NJ's biggest need is a power forward elite winger & we don't have anyone in the prospect pipeline who fits that bill. NJ has dman prospects lined up around the block half of which are bluechip top 2 dman prospects (Luke Hughes, Nemec, Casey). We also have only ONE more big move left due to the cap. If we get Quinn then we have 0 chance to address our biggest weakness which is an elite winger. Our d core/prospect pipeline is so stacked that players like Mukhamadullin etc are afterthoughts.

Yup. A Quinn trade makes literally no sense for us. The "get him for free" makes a ton of sense on the other hand though. We can have addressed the forward need and then right when Dougie's almost expired there's Quinn. Quinn becomes a UFA when Dougie has 1 year left.

 

[jackjohnson]

Yup. A Quinn trade makes literally no sense for us. The "get him for free" makes a ton of sense on the other hand though. We can have addressed the forward need and then right when Dougie's almost expired there's Quinn. Quinn becomes a UFA when Dougie has 1 year left.

How do you know Hughes will come to NJ and not extend in Vancouver? "Get him for free" is not guaranteed and a pipe dream. I know his brothers are in NJ but maybe Hughes loves playing in Vancouver and doesn't want to live in NJ. You guys think you can get players like Hughes really easily in FA make me laugh. Vancouver will trade him to another team if they could not re-sign him and the team he gets traded to would have an extension in place. So forget about getting high profile players for free, especially young players like Hughes because its very very rare to see a young high profile player not signed before hitting free agency.

 

[lionsDen]

mods can you fix the typo in thread title? should be "ramblings"

That’s it! We’re gonna tumble

 

[StevensRocks]

How do you know Hughes will come to NJ and not extend in Vancouver? "Get him for free" is not guaranteed and a pipe dream. I know his brothers are in NJ but maybe Hughes loves playing in Vancouver and doesn't want to live in NJ. You guys think you can get players like Hughes really easily in FA make me laugh. Vancouver will trade him to another team if they could not re-sign him and the team he gets traded to would have an extension in place. So forget about getting high profile players for free, especially young players like Hughes because its very very rare to see a young high profile player not signed before hitting free agency.

We will take our chances

 

[jackjohnson]

We will take our chances

Sure but I don't see it happening. Maybe once he is old at 37 and wants to retire, he will come to NJ to play with his brothers for fun like Nirdermeyers

 

[McDuffz88]

How do you know Hughes will come to NJ and not extend in Vancouver? "Get him for free" is not guaranteed and a pipe dream. I know his brothers are in NJ but maybe Hughes loves playing in Vancouver and doesn't want to live in NJ. You guys think you can get players like Hughes really easily in FA make me laugh. Vancouver will trade him to another team if they could not re-sign him and the team he gets traded to would have an extension in place. So forget about getting high profile players for free, especially young players like Hughes because its very very rare to see a young high profile player not signed before hitting free agency.

Let's be real here. Vancouver is a dumpster fire with no signs of success anytime soon. In 4 years Quinn is going to want out. He's already called out management for mishandling things. You can trade him sure, but if he demands he wants to play with his brothers you can't point a gun at his head & force him to sign an extension with another team. Look at Fox, he wouldn't go anywhere but NYR.

 

[Hisch13r]

How do you know Hughes will come to NJ and not extend in Vancouver? "Get him for free" is not guaranteed and a pipe dream. I know his brothers are in NJ but maybe Hughes loves playing in Vancouver and doesn't want to live in NJ. You guys think you can get players like Hughes really easily in FA make me laugh. Vancouver will trade him to another team if they could not re-sign him and the team he gets traded to would have an extension in place. So forget about getting high profile players for free, especially young players like Hughes because its very very rare to see a young high profile player not signed before hitting free agency.

If he doesn't come then fine. We DO NOT NEED QUINN.

 

[Luck 6]

If he doesn't come then fine. We DO NOT NEED QUINN.

See, this is something that most fans overlook.

First, Quinn would need to really WANT to play for NJD, but also, NJD would really need to want to invest 10mil in cap space to him as well. If they already have Luke Hughes filling a similar role, why the heck would they even want Quinn Hughes?

As a Vancouver fan, I certainly wouldn’t be targeting any more offensive LHD, that’s why it was so stupid that we brought OEL here. If NJD elected to do that it could turn into a terrible mistake.

The likelihood that all three Hughes brothers will every play on the same NHL team will be low. If they want to prioritize this there are World Championship games, Olympics, etc. where they can play together.

 

[dwarf]

I am curious what non Canuck fans would propose for Horvat, if they know they could re-sign him? I haven't heard anything that interests me yet.

I assume that if the Canucks can't get a fair return, they will just sign him for a lot, short term, to avoid the loss he would be to Vancouver.

 

[Luck 6]

I am curious what non Canuck fans would propose for Horvat, if they know they could re-sign him? I haven't heard anything that interests me yet.

I assume that if the Canucks can't get a fair return, they will just sign him for a lot, short term, to avoid the loss he would be to Vancouver.

There’s no chance Horvat signs short term. He’s going minimum 7 years.

If great value isn’t there we will likely just need to take the best we can get. Or, sign him for a big contract, which may not be the best idea.

 

[nucksflailtogether]

I am curious what non Canuck fans would propose for Horvat, if they know they could re-sign him? I haven't heard anything that interests me yet.

I assume that if the Canucks can't get a fair return, they will just sign him for a lot, short term, to avoid the loss he would be to Vancouver.

Fans here do not want to give up anything of value for anyone over 23 or not on a long term value deal. But if their GM pulled the trigger on it they would be defending the trade within 3 games.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Yup. A Quinn trade makes literally no sense for us. The "get him for free" makes a ton of sense on the other hand though. We can have addressed the forward need and then right when Dougie's almost expired there's Quinn. Quinn becomes a UFA when Dougie has 1 year left.

You guys won't get him free. I doubt your GM will plan to have 10m+ cap space for him when the time comes. I'd say there is a good chance Vancouver is competitive enough at that time to sign him long term.

I am curious what non Canuck fans would propose for Horvat, if they know they could re-sign him? I haven't heard anything that interests me yet.

I assume that if the Canucks can't get a fair return, they will just sign him for a lot, short term, to avoid the loss he would be to Vancouver.

It's always the same thing here. Fans never want to give up top prospects or qsts in deals for any player, so they give garbage offers and defend to the death it is the best deal the other team will get. TDL is always weird. Players that should get a haul, always get a bit less than people think. Players who should really get very little end up getting a lot.

 

[Grantham]

It makes me chuckle when I see fans on this site get all worked up by what the posters are asking for their teams player and what others are proposing as offers. They are usually always far apart. Really it makes zero difference.

The GM and ownership will do what fits their agenda. We are there to suffer the consequences. Thats all there is really to it.

 

[wintersej]

You guys won't get him free. I doubt your GM will plan to have 10m+ cap space for him when the time comes. I'd say there is a good chance Vancouver is competitive enough at that time to sign him long term.


It's always the same thing here. Fans never want to give up top prospects or qsts in deals for any player, so they give garbage offers and defend to the death it is the best deal the other team will get. TDL is always weird. Players that should get a haul, always get a bit less than people think. Players who should really get very little end up getting a lot.

It does go both ways. Last year JT Miller was a 99 point #1C who was worth the sun the moon and the stars according to every Canucks fan…and now it’s a contract that might not even have positive value.

 

[Oneiro]

You guys won't get him free. I doubt your GM will plan to have 10m+ cap space for him when the time comes. I'd say there is a good chance Vancouver is competitive enough at that time to sign him long term.

Even with Bedard, if you think VAN is going to turn this around in four years, you're in for a rude surprise. This is at least 7-8 years of pain to first get out from under bad contracts and replenish the pool, and then surrounding EP, Hughes and any younger players with adequate depth. And that's if EP even wants to stay in the first place.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Even with Bedard, if you think VAN is going to turn this around in four years, you're in for a rude surprise. This is at least 7-8 years of pain to first get out from under bad contracts and replenish the pool, and then surrounding EP, Hughes and any younger players with adequate depth. And that's if EP even wants to stay in the first place.

EP is the questionmark. But Ep, Kuz and Miky make one of the best lines in the NHL. Teams with a solid 1st line can never be counted out. I feel like in 3 years we will be out of the basement and in the playoffs. As long as PA can build beyond that 1st line.

 

[Coach Parker]

EP is the questionmark. But Ep, Kuz and Miky make one of the best lines in the NHL. Teams with a solid 1st line can never be counted out. I feel like in 3 years we will be out of the basement and in the playoffs. As long as PA can build beyond that 1st line.

While there is definitely talent there, they currently aren't in the top ten of lines. I love watching them play live at the arena but they have struggled all year to play a complete game. Their team record also suggests that they have a year or more to grow into an elite line.