Rumor: Horvat Rumblings 2

[Nucklehead Supreme]

1. First of all, there has been no precedent set where a team trades their top 6 center and starting goalie in a package. So you are just guessing what the return will be like. Secondly, 2. find me teams that are trading good young goalies like Demko right now? 3. GMs also look at the whole history of the goalie and not what he did 5 games ago and base their value on that, it's doesn't work like HFboards where the goalie's play history is forgotten except the last 15 games he played and goalies easily rebound back to form. Demko has played 140 or so games in NHL already so he isn't a flash in the pan

4. Horvat is also a top 6 center and can be a 1st line center on some NHL teams. 5.You conveniently use Demko's recent play to gauge his trade value 6. so why not use the same logic on Horvat who has 32 goals right now and those are 1st line center numbers. 7. You can't pick and choose stats to fit your trade narrative. 8.Also both players would be core type of players that have leadership qualities, it's not like some complimentary player that a team trades and would easily push a playoff team to cup contenders if they land both so it is worth to give two top prospects and a 1st. Even if Horvat was a rental, Demko is not and that's worth a lot

1. No there hasn't, you asked what I thought would be the return I answered, perhaps don't ask the question if your just gonna bash the logic of answering in the first place?

2. There isn't, teams that have good young and signed goalies have usually built properly around them, so they don't trade them, I'll give you that, regardless, goalies still don't have the value you seem to think he does, no goalie does, again too much parody in the position, like a RB in football.

3. Great, not sure what point your making here, if you paid attention you'd know I stood up for Demko based on this logic already, but go ahead, keep making a point that didn't need to be made.....

4. He is, and yes on some he could be, in general, he is not a 1st line C, he has never been and likely won't ever be, I love Horvat, I wish we could keep him, but he's simply not a traditional 1st line C and teams know that.

5. No I didn't, where did I insinuate that in any way? I said teams would have to make sure he was healthy before trading for him, which I'm sorry why wouldn't they? He was supposed to be out short term and now is supposed to be out for 10 weeks (in total), like that wouldn't be concerning?

6. Because he is shooting at a percentage that is not sustainable, because he's doing all of this in a year where he's looking to get paid based on his performance, because he's 27 and never shown any ability before this to put up numbers like this, and because let's be honest, his offense is great, his face offs are great, his defensive play is average, at best. Finally he's a rental, and even if re-signed he wants a lot of money, that's not a positive for cap strapped teams looking to trade for him. Again I love Horvat, but he's a 2nd line C, a very good one, but that's his value. Period.

7. Not doing that.

8. Well, you keep thinking that, goalies don't have the value you seem to think they do, and precedent (overall precedent, not one trade 10 years ago) agrees with me. Horvat while a great player is a rental and rentals don't return that much, again precedent is on my side here.

It does go both ways. Last year JT Miller was a 99 point #1C who was worth the sun the moon and the stars according to every Canucks fan…and now it’s a contract that might not even have positive value.

Not every Canucks fan it was a minority and you know it.

 

[platotld]

How do you know Hughes will come to NJ and not extend in Vancouver? "Get him for free" is not guaranteed and a pipe dream. I know his brothers are in NJ but maybe Hughes loves playing in Vancouver and doesn't want to live in NJ. You guys think you can get players like Hughes really easily in FA make me laugh. Vancouver will trade him to another team if they could not re-sign him and the team he gets traded to would have an extension in place. So forget about getting high profile players for free, especially young players like Hughes because its very very rare to see a young high profile player not signed before hitting free agency.

If this were a thing I'd wager Bedard would wait and sign here, funny thing is it never happens. Well so far once John to TO. Teams know their assets, so does the NHL is terms of making sure sh*t like this sort of thinking does not happen.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Nah, Stankoven + 1st.

Too bad the NYR own the 2023 1st for Nils Lundkqvist.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Too bad the NYR own the 2023 1st for Nils Lundkqvist.

We’ll take just Stankoven, it’s all good.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Dhaliwal just said the Canucks really like Fabian Lysell but he isnt enough to get Horvat, the Bruins however are not willing to trade roster player as part of Horvat trade. Roster player being Brandon Carlo.

Looks like Boston is out on Horvat

 

[BlueBaron]

Name 9 players that have worn a Canucks sweater that are better goal scorers than 22-23 Bo Horvat.

How many years did you have Bure? I see 3 years it's him assuming Bo beats 34 goals. Henrik gets 2. Daniel gets 1. Naslund gets 2. Kesler for 1....

Nope. Not buying it. Having a fine season though. The Canucks have some history. I didn't dig very deep either.

 

[roryjones]

We’ll take just Stankoven, it’s all good.

I would not give up Stankoven for Horvat straight up. Stankoven has more value than any rental on the market right now. He will be cheap and produce for several years. That outweighs a rental. There are other options for Dallas if that’s the cost.

 

[UrbanImpact]

Serious question, whens the last time a premier player in his prime producing like Horvat is, got traded at the TDL.

This is going to be massive.

31 goals in 49 games
54 pts in 49 games

A captain, Centre, 27 yrs old.

62 goals in his last 109 games

Compare that to the next big ticket at the deadline which is Timo Meier who has 63 goals in his last 128 games.


Is there any comparable of a player on this level as Horvat being traded at the TDL?

 

[DeltaSwede]

Serious question, whens the last time a premier player in his prime producing like Horvat is, got traded at the TDL.

This is going to be massive.

31 goals in 49 games
54 pts in 49 games

A captain, 27 yrs old.

Is there any comparable of a player on this level being traded at the TDL?

It's going to be two 1st rounders and a prospect or two depending on the level of prospect.

Call me biased. GMs are going to PAY to get him. They already pay half of that package for bottom pairing defensemen.

 

[UrbanImpact]

It's going to be two 1st rounders and a prospect or two depending on the level of prospect.

Call me biased. GMs are going to PAY to get him. They already pay half of that package for bottom pairing defensemen.

Friedman just suggested he thinks a good possibility is that Horvat can end up going to a team that doesnt get talked about alot because they are a "vault"

A team like NYI or Det.


Could definitely see that happening.

 

[AslanRH]

Is there any comparable of a player on this level as Horvat being traded at the TDL?

Mark Stone is the first that comes to mind
Former #15 (D+2) + mid 6 roster player + late 2nd

 

[Sergei Shirokov]

Dhaliwal just said the Canucks really like Fabian Lysell but he isnt enough to get Horvat, the Bruins however are not willing to trade roster player as part of Horvat trade. Roster player being Brandon Carlo.

Looks like Boston is out on Horvat

Interesting. If Boston could afford to sign Horvat long-term it would make sense but Carlo is a longtime part of their mix & it's a hard part of your lineup to subtract from at the deadline.

Lysell & a 1st is a good starting point, wonder what else Boston has besides Carlo or if that's it then.

 

[Bobby Digital]

Yup. A Quinn trade makes literally no sense for us. The "get him for free" makes a ton of sense on the other hand though. We can have addressed the forward need and then right when Dougie's almost expired there's Quinn. Quinn becomes a UFA when Dougie has 1 year left.

Something to consider is that the if all the brothers could play on the same team there's a good chance they'd take a discount to do that.

 

[EP to Kuzmenko]

Mark Stone is the first that comes to mind
Former #15 (D+2) + mid 6 roster player + late 2nd

That was the deal Dorion got after overplaying his hand and took the best available. An offer like that is a worst case scenario, and would be proof this management is in over their heads.

Something to consider is that the if all the brothers could play on the same team there's a good chance they'd take a discount to do that.

I think Hughes will re-sign as a Canuck when the time comes.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Mark Stone is the first that comes to mind
Former #15 (D+2) + mid 6 roster player + late 2nd

Taylor Hall as well, 2 seasons removed from his Hart season and just under a point per game (25 points in 30 games with only 6 goals) at a $6 million cap hit, so likely had less value than Horvat currently does.

Hall was traded for Arizona’s 1st round pick (top 3 protected), conditional 3rd round pick (became a 1st if Arizona won the Cup and Hall re-signed), Kevin Bahl, Nick Merkley, and Nate Schnarr.

 

[AslanRH]

That was the deal Dorion got after overplaying his hand and took the best available. An offer like that is a worst case scenario, and would be proof this management is in over their heads.

Perhaps, but it was also not in a flat cap era, a more consistent point producer, easily a more highly regarded 200ft player, but a winger not a center.

All in all, I think a likely comparable return will be seen this time.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It's going to be two 1st rounders and a prospect or two depending on the level of prospect.

Call me biased. GMs are going to PAY to get him. They already pay half of that package for bottom pairing defensemen.

Ain't no way Detroit would even be looking into this if the ask was two 1st rounders.
Former 1st rounders? That's a different story.

 

[Hierso]

It's going to be two 1st rounders and a prospect or two depending on the level of prospect.

Call me biased. GMs are going to PAY to get him. They already pay half of that package for bottom pairing defensemen.

I don't think Vancouver will get 2 firsts.

1st
2nd-4th (depending of the quality of the prospect)
Prospect
UFA cap dump

If Vancouver can get 2 firsts i would be happy them but i wouldn't count on it.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

I don't think Vancouver will get 2 firsts.

1st
2nd-4th (depending of the quality of the prospect)
Prospect
UFA cap dump

If Vancouver can get 2 firsts i would be happy them but i wouldn't count on it.

Two firsts from a team that is drafting 25th-32nd isn't that unreasonable imo. Most players from that range don't pan out to be more than solid nhl players.

 

[Big Daddy Cane]

The Ben Chiarot-type is irrelevant to Bo Horvat. Increasing quality, diminishing returns. Teams will overpay for grit. Teams won't for top offensive players, largely because they don't have the assets to do so.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Come on Lou you senile old bastard.

Give up a boatload for Bo.

 

[Jay26]

I would not give up Stankoven for Horvat straight up. Stankoven has more value than any rental on the market right now. He will be cheap and produce for several years. That outweighs a rental. There are other options for Dallas if that’s the cost.

IF he's a rental. I'm not sure about Dallas' cap situation but would they not theoretically intend to re-sign him?

 

[impaaaaaact]

Bo fits all of the Lou criteria:

- A Captain
- Tangentially related to Devils (was selected with the pick he traded for Schneider)
- Gets to structure next contract following career year

no surprises here that Friedman casually threw the islanders into the mix. Isles package has to start with a first and Raty right?

 

[RutherPlan]

I'm convinced more than ever that Boeser will be traded and Horvat will be signed.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It's going to be two 1st rounders and a prospect or two depending on the level of prospect.

Call me biased. GMs are going to PAY to get him. They already pay half of that package for bottom pairing defensemen.

Depends on sign/trade. It usually don't increase value too much but it might in Horvat's case. If it's purely a rental, I think it has a chance at a 1st and Grade A. Two 1st and a prospect? Not so sure about that one but maybe if the team is able to get Horvat on contract they prefer.

Lots of if's. Horvat will draw a lot of attention regardless.

I'm convinced more than ever that Boeser will be traded and Horvat will be signed.

The logical play for the Canucks. Got to find someone to take Boeser first though but no doubt they are trying as we speak.