Horton vs Semin
- Thread starter transclo
- Start date
- Status
I saw Horton all last season and can tell you that he started out on the 3rd line as a center. But he kept playing better and better and his icetime increased getting moved up to the 2nd line and playing RW (most expect him to play on the wing in the future). I've heard Panther fans say they would love to keep the line of Nedorost - Weiss - Horton together. But those other 2 guys hadn't proven much to that point in the NHL. The only time he played with Jokinen was on the PP (which he got more time on that unit as he improved last season). To say Horton played with better players is a slight fallacy (but sure the Caps lineup after all the trades were not all that talented). I say you look at one of the early games that the 2 players played against each other...it tells you an interesting story:
Horton 11:53 of total time on ice, 1:14 on the PP, 6:17 on the PK so thats 4:22 on even strength
Semin 9:35 of total time on ice, 3:13 on the PP, 0:00 on the PK so thats 6:22 on even strength
This was the only time the 2 were completely healthy (the game later in the yr Horton had just come back from an injury he shouldn't have...not his fault but the orgs fault that he did attempt it). I think the point of that is...both were getting comparable time at the beginning but thats where the comparison ends.
Horton was getting most of his time on the PK and that means he'll be the more defensively responsible player and Semin got more time on the PP so he'll be more likely to be better offensively. Horton scored 4 more goals than Semin last season so you can expect that Horton is going to be more of a goal scorer whereas Semin will be a better playmaker getting 4 more assists than Horton. Its like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Porsche SUV...they serve the purpose that they are intended to.
Its just a matter of preference. Someone mentioned Samonov and Thornton earlier in this thread. You can use those comparisons if you want as well. But I think the point is...how often do PFs come along that can contribute quickly the way guys like Nash & Horton have the last 2 yrs? Playmakers come along every yr in the draft...even lasting well into the 1st round. Horton actually reminds me of one of my favorite players of all time: Cam Neely.
Horton 11:53 of total time on ice, 1:14 on the PP, 6:17 on the PK so thats 4:22 on even strength
Semin 9:35 of total time on ice, 3:13 on the PP, 0:00 on the PK so thats 6:22 on even strength
This was the only time the 2 were completely healthy (the game later in the yr Horton had just come back from an injury he shouldn't have...not his fault but the orgs fault that he did attempt it). I think the point of that is...both were getting comparable time at the beginning but thats where the comparison ends.
Horton was getting most of his time on the PK and that means he'll be the more defensively responsible player and Semin got more time on the PP so he'll be more likely to be better offensively. Horton scored 4 more goals than Semin last season so you can expect that Horton is going to be more of a goal scorer whereas Semin will be a better playmaker getting 4 more assists than Horton. Its like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Porsche SUV...they serve the purpose that they are intended to.
Its just a matter of preference. Someone mentioned Samonov and Thornton earlier in this thread. You can use those comparisons if you want as well. But I think the point is...how often do PFs come along that can contribute quickly the way guys like Nash & Horton have the last 2 yrs? Playmakers come along every yr in the draft...even lasting well into the 1st round. Horton actually reminds me of one of my favorite players of all time: Cam Neely.
RichPanther said:
Semin isn't your average playmaker, and Horton is no Nash or Cam Neely, the jury is still out on both players.
Semin is dominating the RSL, I think he has 7 goals already and 10+ pts. If he reaches his potential, he's an All-Star.
Horton will be a better Arnott.
Til the End of Time
Registered User
Rattrick
Registered User
I think this thread is pretty funny to be honest. Anyone who says Semin is or will be a better player must not have seen Horton play very much. Before his injury, he was the best player on our team (for nearly a month and a half). I have seen Semin pull some sick tricks, but I would be willing to bet the bank that Horton turns out to be a more productive and useful player.
Rattrick
Registered User
These two shouldn't even be compared. They play two totally different games. However, there is no doubt that Horton has more potential then Semin and should become the better all around player. This doesn't mean that Semin can't become the better player but Horton has a more complete game then Semin.
Semin is more of a guy who needs a supporting cast in order to thrive. Horton is a player who, obviously at the NHL level needs talent around him but does not DEPEND on it like Semin does. Semin is a fantatstic player, don't get me wrong, but first off, for almost the whole first half of the season, Horton was really not performing and was adjusting to NHL level competition. He scored very few points in the first half. In late December and January, he went on a tear and was scoring night in and night out, carrying the team. Everytime I would look at the scoresheet in the event that I missed a game because of my own practices, I'd expect to see Jokinen scoring and it was all Horton.
For those of you who say Horton is injury prone, it was a freak injury he had. He fell into the boards and put his arm up to protect his head. Now I don't know about you, but I definately would rather tear my shoulder to shreads than be paralyzed for the rest of my life going in head first. He was charging to the net and Sopel and he got tangled up and he went flying in head first. This was right in the middle of his "tear" where he was playing like an Allstar NHLer and was not the same after he came back because he shoulder was not fully healed.
Horton was picked #3. Semin was like 15 or 20 something I think. Wow, what significance does this have??? Semin played in Russia, against bigger and stronger competition so he was more NHL ready than Horton. Horton came right out of the OHL to the NHL and his game, which is based on dictating the pace on the ice and physically dominating, too time to change, as naturally, an NHL dman is, if you will agree, just a tad bit stronger than any CHL dman to say the least. By your logic with Semin being picked less than Horton, does that mean that Mike Modano sucks because he was picked #2 and Pavel Bure was picked really late in the draft and scored (I don't feel like looking it up), many more goal prolly and at least the same number of points in less games in his career and being picked in the 4th or 6th round? No, both are great players.
For those of you who say Horton is injury prone, it was a freak injury he had. He fell into the boards and put his arm up to protect his head. Now I don't know about you, but I definately would rather tear my shoulder to shreads than be paralyzed for the rest of my life going in head first. He was charging to the net and Sopel and he got tangled up and he went flying in head first. This was right in the middle of his "tear" where he was playing like an Allstar NHLer and was not the same after he came back because he shoulder was not fully healed.
Horton was picked #3. Semin was like 15 or 20 something I think. Wow, what significance does this have??? Semin played in Russia, against bigger and stronger competition so he was more NHL ready than Horton. Horton came right out of the OHL to the NHL and his game, which is based on dictating the pace on the ice and physically dominating, too time to change, as naturally, an NHL dman is, if you will agree, just a tad bit stronger than any CHL dman to say the least. By your logic with Semin being picked less than Horton, does that mean that Mike Modano sucks because he was picked #2 and Pavel Bure was picked really late in the draft and scored (I don't feel like looking it up), many more goal prolly and at least the same number of points in less games in his career and being picked in the 4th or 6th round? No, both are great players.
X-SHARKIE
Registered User
John Flyers Fan
Registered User
transclo said:
Horton.
IMO it'll be similar to Joe Thornton vs. Sergei Samsonov (although neither will be quite that good).
Give me the big physical centerman.
Exactly. I wanted Zherdev over Horton from a panther's standpoint, but I'm not gonna go out and say that Zherdev is so much better than Horton. They're both equally good at what they do. Same with Semin and Horton, only Semin is a notch lower than Zherdev and always will be (don't start on Semin vs. Zherdev, Zherdev is a notch above Semin in terms of talent and Semin is good too).RichPanther said:
BTW, In terms of cars, I'd look at it like:
Semin:
Mercedes SLK 350 (new one, it's really hot)
Maserati
Lexus SC430
Cadillac SLR Convertable
Horton:
Hummer
Mercedes G-Wagon
Escalade (YEAH!)
Range Rover
Cayenne
Depends on your preference, as I would with Horton and Semin if I could, I'd take both.
Rattrick
Registered User
PanthersRule said:
I haven't read a more homeristic post in quite some time.
I don't know where to even begin.
Semin doesn't depend on anyone. He was on a 1st line w/Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie to finish out the season. Are you kidding me? He averaged 12 min. of ice time. He's a dynamic talent. The first half of the year he saw time as a 4th liner. I'm willing to bet Horton was surrounded w/better talent and more ice time.
He was drafted 13th overall in 2002, mainly due to concerns over his size, which he proved to be a moot point last season. He looked like a top 5 pick.
I'd take Horton, but barely. Semin is going to be a force to reckon w/. Most criticisms I've read on here about his game are uneducated.
EroCaps said:I haven't read a more homeristic post in quite some time.
I don't know where to even begin.
Semin doesn't depend on anyone. He was on a 1st line w/Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie to finish out the season. Are you kidding me? He averaged 12 min. of ice time. He's a dynamic talent. The first half of the year he saw time as a 4th liner. I'm willing to bet Horton was surrounded w/better talent and more ice time.
He was drafted 13th overall in 2002, mainly due to concerns over his size, which he proved to be a moot point last season. He looked like a top 5 pick.
I'd take Horton, but barely. Semin is going to be a force to reckon w/. Most criticisms I've read on here about his game are uneducated.
I think their potential and careers will be very close. Funny, their stats are nearly identical. The statboys here look at draft position. Everthing I see says equal players different styles.
EroCaps said:I haven't read a more homeristic post in quite some time.
I don't know where to even begin.
Semin doesn't depend on anyone. He was on a 1st line w/Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie to finish out the season. Are you kidding me? He averaged 12 min. of ice time. He's a dynamic talent. The first half of the year he saw time as a 4th liner. I'm willing to bet Horton was surrounded w/better talent and more ice time.
He was drafted 13th overall in 2002, mainly due to concerns over his size, which he proved to be a moot point last season. He looked like a top 5 pick.
I'd take Horton, but barely. Semin is going to be a force to reckon w/. Most criticisms I've read on here about his game are uneducated.
Obviously playing with Bouwmeester=Boumedienne. In fact, they probably want to trade us that bum! Weiss=Willsie. Another trade that should happen. Jokinen is no better than Halpern. This is deemed insignificant. Do these guys EVER watch hockey? Your linemates almost mean more than your talent. And for those who claim Jagr, lang, Semin didn't get his time until after they are gone. It's that reading comprehension gap again. I'll stick with Semin. Who was with the pick of Korpikoski? Everyone went HUH when McPhee took Fehr off the board. How about Balej? Semin was just a great pick. Babchuck is another example. Potential #1 d-man. Semin would go 3rd in this draft.
Epsilon
#basta
Sammy said:
Which draft is he talking about? Because Semin could have gone #3 in the 2004 draft, but not any other one in the last 5 years, or the 2005 draft.
personally, the only players i truly see as locks to go ahead of semin in a redo are nash, lehtonen, bouwmeester, and pitkanen. having him at number five is very reasonable, when looking at the rest of the offensive prospects in the first round.. lupul, bouchard, steen, johansson, klepis... i see nothing wrong at having semin ahead of all those guys
it's all just priority anyhow.. 11 teams didn't feel they needed a semin type game, or if they did they liked other players better.. on that note, having him ahead of some of the dmen (grebs and whitney included) isn't a reach
it's all just priority anyhow.. 11 teams didn't feel they needed a semin type game, or if they did they liked other players better.. on that note, having him ahead of some of the dmen (grebs and whitney included) isn't a reach
The 2002 draft (I assume) but on a re read, I could be mistaken so I deleted my post.Epsilon said:
I'd be willing to bet that playing with Willsie and Halpern, two guys with experience and a bit of skill, is better for a young guy like Semin or Horton than playing with Weiss and Nedorost, regardless of how much potential they both have.EroCaps said:I haven't read a more homeristic post in quite some time.
I don't know where to even begin.
Semin doesn't depend on anyone. He was on a 1st line w/Jeff Halpern and Brian Willsie to finish out the season. Are you kidding me? He averaged 12 min. of ice time. He's a dynamic talent. The first half of the year he saw time as a 4th liner. I'm willing to bet Horton was surrounded w/better talent and more ice time.
He was drafted 13th overall in 2002, mainly due to concerns over his size, which he proved to be a moot point last season. He looked like a top 5 pick.
I'd take Horton, but barely. Semin is going to be a force to reckon w/. Most criticisms I've read on here about his game are uneducated.
What I kinda meant is that for Semin to reach his "full" potential, he would have to rely on others who are physical and get him the puck. While he can hit and go after the puck, Horton thrives doing that. Horton, if put with average players, I guarantee you would have better numbers than Semin put with average players. You really can't look at their stats this early in their careers. A year older this early into a career mean a lot. Look at Steven Weiss. FIrst year he sucked. Second year, he was great for a long while. I think we should just wait and see who develops better. I'm willing to bet that Semin with Ovechkin and the other great young forwards in WAS like Fehr will score a lot of points. In FLA, Horton will probably be with Jokinen, Stewart, Weiss, Nedorost, or Olesz in the future, so he will definatley have playmakers to get him the puck and snipers to pass it off to while he grinds in the corners. (Nedorost, maybe Olesz, Kreps, etc...). I really really like Semin though. He is one of my top 5 fav young players in the league along with Zherdev, Horton, Bouwmeester, and Kovalchuk and NAsh. That's some great company to be in. Sorry if it was a tad "homerish" cuz I didn't mean for it to be. Horton was the one who generated most of the Offense on his line, while I bet Semin generated (most of the) points on his line. They are both great young players, but, especially in today's physical NHL, I think Horton will turn out a bit better player. I think Semin could score 35 goals and 35 assists for 70 points, but Horton IMO could score about he same # of goals and assists as Semin, but be a force out on the ice, one who is physical and wears down the other team, draws penalties, and gets under the other team's skin, something that Semin, no matter how skilled he is, will never do.
Any Panther fans know how Horton's shoulder is coming along, and when he is expected to start playing in the AHL?
- Status
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
Eisbaren Berlin @ Pinguins Bremerhaven - Eisbaren Berlin leads series 3-1Wagers: 5Staked: $6,549.00Event closes- Updated:
-
BET ON ONLY ONE HORSE Bewitch Stakes (Gr. 3) - KEENELAND RACE 8Wagers: 6Staked: $2,300.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
