Horton vs Semin

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Epsilon

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Sammy said:
The 2002 draft (I assume) but on a re read, I could be mistaken so I deleted my post.

Well, his post was as clear as a glass of Mexican water, so you were likely correct. I'm pretty sure he was either talking about 2002 since that's when Semin was picked, or 2003 since that's when Horton was picked. Either way, his statement was laughable unless he meant 2004 which one could argue either way.
 

Rattrick

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Johnny said:
Any Panther fans know how Horton's shoulder is coming along, and when he is expected to start playing in the AHL?

He may start Friday for San Antonio if he feels up to it and can sign an AHL deal. I would think he would be in the roster because this kid just wants to play.
 

Winston Wolf

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EroCaps said:
The first half of the year he saw time as a 4th liner. I'm willing to bet Horton was surrounded w/better talent and more ice time.
Look at the game logs from the beginning of the season. Semin's points came from playing with Washington's superstars, while Horton got his surrounded with pretty low quality players.
 

Rattrick

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flyers guy said:
Look at the game logs from the beginning of the season. Semin's points came from playing with Washington's superstars, while Horton got his surrounded with pretty low quality players.

Very good point. Horton worked his way through the lineup because he played like a top line player. Semin worked his way up partially due to the fact that Washington traded away their top line players.

If anyone saw Horton play pre-injury when he was dominating, you would know that he has the ability to be an absolutely dominate player in this league.
 

borro

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flyers guy said:
Look at the game logs from the beginning of the season. Semin's points came from playing with Washington's superstars, while Horton got his surrounded with pretty low quality players.

Incorrect, Semin didn't even play with those guys, he was 4th line beginning of the year. Power Play would liekly be only interface.
 

Winston Wolf

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borro said:
Incorrect, Semin didn't even play with those guys, he was 4th line beginning of the year. Power Play would liekly be only interface.
I REPEAT: look at the game logs from the beginning of the season, they don't lie. Before the firesale, Semin picked up his points from playing with Jagr, Lang, Bondra, Gonchar, etc whether it be on the power play or not. Horton didn't receive the same luxury.

Both players ice-time increased throughout the season, but one player's increase was to be expected with so many open spots.
 

bryan579

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anything to say about those superstarts halpern and willsie he was playing with for the last 2 months that he got all his points with, and not jagr, lang, gonchar, brondra, ect... because you obviously aren't looking at the same game logs as me and i dont think the caps website would lie about when he got his points...
 

Winston Wolf

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bryan579 said:
anything to say about those superstarts halpern and willsie he was playing with for the last 2 months that he got all his points with, and not jagr, lang, gonchar, brondra, ect... because you obviously aren't looking at the same game logs as me and i dont think the caps website would lie about when he got his points...
First off, we were talking about the beginning of the season, where he did certainly benefit from playing with high caliber players. During the last two months, he obviously didn't benefit from playing with any elite players, as none were left. Secondly, the Capital's roster after the fire-sale was basically a step above an AHL team. Semin had nobody to compete with for a spot on the top two lines, he didn't move up because of his play in the first half of the season, but merely out of necessity. No matter how bad a team is, the best players will still put up points, which Semin clearly was after the trade deadline.
 

Amen evil king

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borro said:
Incorrect, Semin didn't even play with those guys, he was 4th line beginning of the year. Power Play would liekly be only interface.

His first 6 points alone came on goals where either Bondra, Lang, Gonchar or Jagr also were in on the goal. I stopped looking after that, that was all the evidence I felt was needed.

EDIT: Looked on a bit further :D, and I think 10 of his first 11 points involved one of the all stars mentioned above.. Thats nearly half his points right there.

Another EDIT: Horton picked up 3 points involving Jokinen all year. He even got a 1st assist on a Mathieu Biron goal, and if that isn't creating offense by yourself I don't know what is ;)
 
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Winston Wolf

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Lehtonen32 said:
His first 6 points alone came on goals where either Bondra, Lang, Gonchar or Jagr also were in on the goal. I stopped looking after that, that was all the evidence I felt was needed.

EDIT: Looked on a bit further :D, and I think 10 of his first 11 points involved one of the all stars mentioned above.. Thats nearly half his points right there.

Another EDIT: Horton picked up 3 points involving Jokinen all year. He even got a 1st assist on a Mathieu Biron goal, and if that isn't creating offense by yourself I don't know what is ;)
Thank you very much!
 

Rattrick

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Lehtonen32 said:
Another EDIT: Horton picked up 3 points involving Jokinen all year. He even got a 1st assist on a Mathieu Biron goal, and if that isn't creating offense by yourself I don't know what is ;)

HAHA! Biron is really making a name around here. :lol
 

Drake1588

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Alexander Semin has a robust set of offensive skills, which he demonstrated last season as his ice time increased following the exodus of payroll from the Capitals. He is presently tearing up the RSL at nearly a point-per-game pace, leading his team in points. His progress is reason for Capitals fans to be very pleased. So with that in mind... nevertheless I believe Nathan Horton to be the better prospect. Semin has a year on him, which is significant at that age, so I'm not convinced that comparing their respective NHL performances is especially revealing at this point in time. Horton boasts a far more well-rounded game, burgeoning physical presence, while still retaining significant offensive upside. Make no mistake, both of these players could be stars in the NHL, but if offered one of the two I'd take Horton. That's no knock on Semin, though.

This one is too early to call definitively, but Horton's going to be a stud. Semin may out-produce Horton when all is said and done, but I'd rather have Horton. There is a bit of a style preference at issue here.
 

borro

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Til the End of Time said:
What exactly is this "everything" you are basing your opinion on? The only thing I see equal is their point total for their first year in the NHL, which is pretty insignificant.

So basically, anything pointed out to favor Semin automatically is insignificant and anything favoring Horton is proof of a considerable gap.

Things like Horton's injury could not possibly (defining insignificant here) be a precursor to a player who experiences alot of injuries at a position prone to create alot of injuries because of contact. It is completely insignificant to even mention it. No that's ludicrous.

Things like linemates are completely insignificant. Superior linemates couldn't possibly help Horton. Also starting on a 3rd/4th line per a poster here would not tend to increase production against lesser players for Horton. For Semin, it shows against him. It is insignificant for Horton though. That's just blatant hypocrisy.

Semin's rising to first line is SOLELY and UTTERLY because no other options existed. No possible indication of potential. However, Horton's rise is solely an indication of his massive potential. Anyone seeing a pattern here?

On performance, based on where he was picked, Semin has been slightly better. Horton may even that out with some intangibles. Semin has some of those too. In the ONLY near level field, Semin equalled or outperformed your boy. Just admit it. Show you have some objectivity. Now, potential wise, he could outperform Semin. Semin could also outperform him by a similar margin. The gap exists in the homerism of the fans or the ignorance of the quality of player Semin is.
 

Rattrick

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borro said:
So basically, anything pointed out to favor Semin automatically is insignificant and anything favoring Horton is proof of a considerable gap.

Things like Horton's injury could not possibly (defining insignificant here) be a precursor to a player who experiences alot of injuries at a position prone to create alot of injuries because of contact. It is completely insignificant to even mention it. No that's ludicrous.

Things like linemates are completely insignificant. Superior linemates couldn't possibly help Horton. Also starting on a 3rd/4th line per a poster here would not tend to increase production against lesser players for Horton. For Semin, it shows against him. It is insignificant for Horton though. That's just blatant hypocrisy.

Semin's rising to first line is SOLELY and UTTERLY because no other options existed. No possible indication of potential. However, Horton's rise is solely an indication of his massive potential. Anyone seeing a pattern here?

On performance, based on where he was picked, Semin has been slightly better. Horton may even that out with some intangibles. Semin has some of those too. In the ONLY near level field, Semin equalled or outperformed your boy. Just admit it. Show you have some objectivity. Now, potential wise, he could outperform Semin. Semin could also outperform him by a similar margin. The gap exists in the homerism of the fans or the ignorance of the quality of player Semin is.

I think you're in denial and obviously didn't see Horton play the way he did to EARN his promotion to the 2nd line.
 

Sammy*

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borro said:
The gap exists in the homerism of the fans or the ignorance of the quality of player Semin is.
This is quite comical given you were the guy who said:

"Semin. He has already shown he can produce at the NHl level. Horton has not. He has seemed to be a disappointment."
 

borro

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Sammy said:
This is quite comical given you were the guy who said:

"Semin. He has already shown he can produce at the NHl level. Horton has not. He has seemed to be a disappointment."

Way to ignore all the points made in that post.
 

borro

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luongofan said:
I think you're in denial and obviously didn't see Horton play the way he did to EARN his promotion to the 2nd line.

So there is no chance Semin impressed and was given more playing time? I'll give you that you're more of a Horton expert than me. I know more about Semin than you. I didn't say Horton wasn't impressive in that time, I was wrong about the comment that he was a disappointment. I said that I hadn't seen him when I watched the Panthers. Horton's points are no less or more valuable than Semin's. Horton STILL isn't playing what 9 months later? Meanwhile Semin is putting up big numbers game after game in the RSL means NOTHING? I guess this means you're in denial of that because you haven't acknowlwedged/admitted this. You haven't acknowledged the correctness of even stats for a player drafted 10 picks earlier is a disappointment (not to mention the 3 games you had on him). You haven't acknowledged that power forwards get hurt more because of their style. You haven't acknowledged that Semin would have doubled or more his stats had he got that playing time early. I trust your Horton facts. Your Semin facts are way off.
 

Rattrick

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borro said:
So there is no chance Semin impressed and was given more playing time? I'll give you that you're more of a Horton expert than me. I know more about Semin than you. I didn't say Horton wasn't impressive in that time, I was wrong about the comment that he was a disappointment. I said that I hadn't seen him when I watched the Panthers. Horton's points are no less or more valuable than Semin's. Horton STILL isn't playing what 9 months later? Meanwhile Semin is putting up big numbers game after game in the RSL means NOTHING? I guess this means you're in denial of that because you haven't acknowlwedged/admitted this. You haven't acknowledged the correctness of even stats for a player drafted 10 picks earlier is a disappointment (not to mention the 3 games you had on him). You haven't acknowledged that power forwards get hurt more because of their style. You haven't acknowledged that Semin would have doubled or more his stats had he got that playing time early. I trust your Horton facts. Your Semin facts are way off.

Man, you just keep making yourself look worse. Biggest.Homer.Ever. :banghead:
 

Chimaera

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luongofan said:
Man, you just keep making yourself look worse. Biggest.Homer.Ever. :banghead:


He's certainly close. But I'm not sure he's the "biggest" homer.


There are some others in these parts that might give him a good run for his money.
 
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