Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by transclo, Oct 23, 2004.
Who will be the best player in few years?
Semin may still turn out to be a very good player but he hasn't impressed me all that much. Horton on the other hand was playing great before he got injured last year. Horton will also have more leadership skills IMO, he's better defensively, obviously tougher, so Horton for me with ease.
I can't wait to see Horton play in the WJC, Canada is going to be some hard to beat this year, fluky goals or not.
Semin. He has already shown he can produce at the NHl level. Horton has not. He has seemed to be a disappointment. Now, it could be they are intentionally bringing him along slow. Semin is tearing up the RSL at a point a game clip, rare in that league. His game and his confidence have skyrocketed. He is very shifty and creative and COULD wind up playing with Ovechkin. Semin played first line on a bad team and produced. He is getting better and better.
How has Horton been a disappointment?!?! as an 18 year old he scored 14 goals in 55games. Thats pretty damn good, and from the few games I saw him in last year I was very impressed. He was playing a very powerfull game, and looked like he belonged in the NHL.
Anyways, I would choose Horton to be the better player
I would take Horton wihtout a doubt. Not that Semin isn't a good player which he is gonna be. I just like Hortons total package compared to the partial package in Semin. People should take into consideration that "Power Forwards" take the longest to develope out of all the forward types. Look how long it took for Iginla, Bertuzzi, Tkazchuk and even Neely to complete there developement and be the players they are now/where. So considering that Horton at 18 was already playing at such a high level just before he got injured just shows the elite potential this guy has. I thnk Semin gonna have alot of success in Washington but in the end its woudl you rather have a Power Forward or Skill Forward. I love Power Forwards so I would have to pass on Semin.
Horton Rocks, Cant waite to see Horton and Stewart on the same line..ouch hate to be the opposition defenseman. :lol
So the Panthers future top line will be either Wiese or Olesz/Horton/Stewart.. Washington has a awsome future top line as well but they desperatly need a center for Ovechkin and Semin. Maybe Aulin and Klepis will turn out or will be adequate enough to play the position until the team fins an elite type center to play with Ovechkin. It woudl be awsome for the Caps if they could turn Fehr into a center.
Horton will be the more rounded player, while semin will be a european goal scorer...
It's like Joe Sakic vs. Pavel Bure. Bure will net 50 goals for your team but Sakic will make the whole team perform better.
Like shoyen said, I do believe Horton scored 14 goals last season. Poor research hurts your credibility a bit, borro.
IMO, its not even close. Horton easy. He's the total package.
who knows since washington blows...they may get crosby making them have a line that will probably have 100 points a piece.
Semin is better ... if he stays in Russia.
Russian show no leadership in North America at all, period.
Hasn't impressed you? Wow, you act like he's a bust- he was a rookie last year, played 50 games w/ 12 min average of ice time. I'm willing to bet you saw very little if any of him.
Semin was outstanding last year for the Caps...he's the most dynamic offensive player the Caps have had since Bondra, (outside of Ovechkin). I watched this kid play all last year and he has some of the best puckhandling skills I've ever seen. He's tearing up the RSL, also.
I'd take Horton by a whisker, bc he'll be a total two way force, but to say it isn't close is off, w/Semin's potential.
I said he hasn't impressed me ALL THAT MUCH.
I never saw Semin until last year but I did see at least 4-5 games that he played. He wasn't ALL THAT impressive. I'm sorry but not everyone has the luxury of seeing every single Semin game. I can only base my opinion on what I've seen or know, kind of like everyone else.
Horton, by a considerable margin.
Give me a break. They have exactly the same amount of points in the NHL, with Horton playing a total of three more games than Semin. But somehow Horton is a disappointment?
It is totally obviously that you haven't the slightest idea of what you are talking about. Do you even know anything about Horton, or did you just automatically pick the player on the team you support, as I suspect?
Hmm.... Patrick Elias vs. Shane Doan?
Larionov, Konstantinov, and Fetisov might complain about your comment.
some players lead by example, and dont have to be loud in the dressing room to be the leaders of the squad.
EDIT: Horton by a slight margin.
IMO Horton will be the best player from his draft class. Better than Zherdev, better than Staal, and better than Fleury
Semin is awesome. One of my favorite young players in the league and I was pissed off when the panthers didn't draft him, but Horton is a freaking BEAST on skates. He scored nearly all his goals within a two month period and was scoring like every night or every other night right before he was hurt. I would bet good money that he would've won the calder if he had not been hurt. It's hard to say, but he was scoring like crazy and probably would've scored 25 goals if he hadn't been hurt. He came back remarkably after he was hurt, but he was not the same. FLA fans had postseason hopes but coming from a fan who watched almost all of the games, after Horton was hurt, it was like someone crushed those hopes with an anvil.
I'm one of the few who believe this too. I think Zherdev's considerably better start compared to Horton's is a bit like the Samsonov-Thornton situation; Samsonov got off to the quick start and won the Calder trophy, but there is no doubt today who is the better player.
Anyway back to the topic, I say Horton by a fair margin. The post that said Semin had produced and Horton had disappointed had me in hysterics.
Those are just stereotypes that will die. In a few years, comments like yours will disappear, just like when a few years ago on this board a horde of simpletons were clamoring that Euro goalies couldn't lead a team to the cup. Now they've disappeared and gone back to whatever stinkhole of ignorance they came from, thankfully.
The "Euro" phenomenon is still pretty new to the league. Yes, they've been around for a long time but they used to be a glaring minority. Today, I feel most Euros are better prepared for the rigors of the NHL and we're going to see them come and play all sorts of roles eventually. Teams are also doing a better job of preparing the adaptation to a new language and culture.
I do feel Horton's going to be a quality player. And at the same time, I think Semin's upside offensively alone is higher. Defensively, neither is going to be an all star defensive forward, and right now Horton's easily better than Semin. And probably always will be.
However, The debate isn't so much on who's going to be a better player, because they both have the "talent" to be a top player in the NHL. The debate shifts more towards particular desires, which is better to have on a team, a Russian or a Candian? (Yes, there is some of that bias in this thread. Still... sadly) A power forward or a sniper? Or a fair number of points and a fair amount of defense, or a lot of points and a lot less defense? You're also looking at the difference between someone who will run the powerplay, and someone who's going to be more upfront and finish.
Semin's dangle and playmaking abilities are on a different level than Horton's. Similarly, his passing and setups are also better. Shot wise, the both have a deceptive wrist shot, which having seen both a decent number of times, is hard to gauge who's is better. I'd personally say that I think Semin's release is faster and he "can" be more accurate, but with the size that Horton has, he also gets more seperation to get more on his shot. Physically, Semin's not even in the ballpark with Horton's potential there. But, Semin's not afraid of contact, which is one thing that he has shown so far, whether or not that's beneficial... who knows.
And I'm not sure where the "Pavel Bure vs Sakic" comparison comes from. Because neither of these players compare really to those two. Yes, Semin is Russian like Bure and has a lot of talent, and is similarly weak on the defensive part of the ice, but that's about where it ends. Semin is as much of an assist guy as he "could" be with goals. He's also less pure speed and more moves and deceptiveness. And Horton and Sakic, the only similarities I can see are being from Canada and Centers. And maybe Horton's wrister is nice as well as Sakic's. Leadership maybe for the two, but that's not their best qualities.
By the way you write it, I'm not sure if you're talking about Semin or all Russians in North America.
What were you trying to say?
Sure those stereotypes will die, when the impetus behind them dies as well.
Just by calling something a "sterotype" doesn't make it untrue.
For whatever reason ( there are many, feel free to list your own here) Russians, for the most part in North American hockey have not taken leadership roles despite the fact that most Russians that play in the NHL do so as stars of their teams and as such should help generate the kind of respect for their talents from their teamates.
Its interesting to note that he said Russians in North America show no leadership....
He is obviously saying that they do so in Russia but leave something behind with them in Russia.
Now this shouldn't come as a huge shock......i would expect the N/A players in Russia also have a more difficult job being the team leaders....
There are always exceptions like Larionov, Fetisov, Konstantinov, Makorov but i think that his statement has some validity.
Horton is a top5 pick and Semin was not even picked top 10 and they have almost equal production. Advantage Semin
Semin plays on a first line against first line competition. Horton does not: Advantage Semin.
Horton plays more games-doesn't get more points. Advantage Semin.
The teammates Semin plays with are a stripped down version and he has little talent with him. Advantage Semin.
So where does this considerable margin come from? I personally expect a Top5 pick to play the year he is drafted with the possible exception of a goaltender and maybe dman. I consider it a disappointment if they dont. Getting back to your point, here are several reasons. Where is your CONSIDERABLE margin, or are YOU just picking the team you support? Try basing it on some NHL performance.
Good point, he was not playingfor them when I saw them...
Look at the performance comprison I do.
This "insight" from the guy who called Horton a "disappointment"
Separate names with a comma.