Post-Game Talk: Holland shits out his mouth.

[CycloneSweep]

Well yes, but they can't even make the playoffs without goaltending, so that's like an auto fail right there.

At least in the playoffs, I guess you learn something win or lose and making the playoffs makes the regular season a lot more pleasant.

I don't think this team has learned diddly squat in the playoffs. We lost to a terrible Chicago team and then got swept by Winnipeg. The only thing this team has learned is McDrai can't do it on their own no matter how much ice time Tippett gives them.

 

[McDNicks17]

There are two issues with a trade now:

Number one is Covid and taxi squads. Even if we traded for a goalie, when would they actually play for us? We've had one trade in the NHL since December 1st.

Number two is the cap. We are saving money towards the deadline on LTIR, we've freed up 900K already this season. Dumping Koskinen to the AHL doesn't take a dollar off the cap.

Things could change when we get close to the deadline.

You don't accrue cap space on LTIR and sending Koskinen to the AHL would clear $1.125M off the cap.

 

[JayE]

They've always played like this. Even 16-17.

If you give McDavid-Draisaitl good goaltending, they make the playoffs.

If you don't. No playoffs.

That's basically all it is. They're not really a great team overall, but making the playoffs is possible when the goalie plays well. When he doesn't, no playoffs.

It's the same team, with the same shit otherwise. People just get carried away when they're winning and think all these other things are going well. Now the start of this season was maybe a touch different because the PP was so ridiculously hot that it covered up the goaltending for a short stretch (10 games) but it's not really shocking the truth would rise to the top eventually.

The goaltending wasn't particularly good 2 years ago when they were set to make the playoffs. The underlying 5v5 metrics of this team are pretty average (they're ranked ranked 14th in the league in expected GF% 5v5, controlling for score and venue). The elite special teams makes this same general group (of the last 3 years) a playoff team with average goaltending, let alone above average goaltending. Not really a recipe for real playoff success, but still a playoff team. They had basically everything fall off over the last 15 games (PK fell way off, PP has fallen off coupled with relatively few attempts, and goaltending). It's probably a safe expectation that this will correct.

Still, this is not a contender even assuming things equal out, which should be the real concern.

 

[CycloneSweep]

That's why I want to see these guys with a different coach.

Tippett clearly wants emotionless hockey and a passive system.

There has to be a reason guys have come here and fallen off a cliff. Why do lots of guys get better one they leave?

Its a lot to do with coaching. And it also has a lot to do with who they are playing with. Foegele for example went from Staal and Fast to Ryan/McLeod and Kassian thats a massive drop in talent.
Hyman went from Matthews and Marner to either Nuge and Yamamoto or McDavid and Puljujarvi. Sure McDavid is better than Matthews but a Matthews/Marner pairing is better than McDavid and Pulju so even his overall linemates dropped.

Coaching is big but the issue is we only ever seem to bring in one or two complimentary guys, expect them to be more than that and then send them away in the off season and try a new one.

 

[Soundwave]

I don't think this team has learned diddly squat in the playoffs. We lost to a terrible Chicago team and then got swept by Winnipeg. The only thing this team has learned is McDrai can't do it on their own no matter how much ice time Tippett gives them.

Yeah but I mean ask yourself which seasons were more pleasant:

16-17 (great goaltending, playoffs)
19-20 (good goaltending from Jan.1 onwards, playoffs)
20-21 (great goaltending, playoffs)

or

17-18 (bad goaltending, no playoffs)
18-19 (bad goaltending, no playoffs)
21-22 (bad goaltending, trending for no playoffs)

If you have running water in your house but you can't get actual hot water, would you rather have lukewarm water + cold or just ice cold? Lukewarm water is at least decent to taking a full cold shower. Obviously you want hot water but this management doesn't deserve that.

 

[McDNicks17]

Buying out Koskinen would of screwed us over next year with our cap unfortunately. We might not even have the money to sign a goalie above 4 mill next year, throw in a buyout to that and its even worse. We really only could afford one buyout.

$1.5M would have very easy to work around if Holland didn't add like $30M in bad contracts.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You don't accrue cap space on LTIR and sending Koskinen to the AHL would clear $1.125M off the cap.

And Skinner takes 750k of that so we gain like...325k total.

$1.5M would have very easy to work around if Holland didn't add like $30M in bad contracts.

I mean true, but with everything else he did, buying out Koskinen would have made things much worse.

 

[McDNicks17]

Don't we already have 3 buy outs on the books ?

Just Neal and Sekera. There's no limit though. I think you're thinking of salary retentions like Lucic.

 

[McDNicks17]

And Skinner takes 750k of that so we gain like...325k total.

I mean true, but with everything else he did, buying out Koskinen would have made things much worse.

Having an actual NHL goalie(assuming Holland's slow ass managed that) instead of Koski would have been more than worth it.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Having an actual NHL goalie(assuming Holland's slow ass managed that) instead of Koski would have been more than worth it.

If you just do everything else and buyout Koskinen, what available goalie that would be willing to sign here for 3 mill?
The only goalie that was signed for 3 mill or under that would be willing to come here (Holtby said no to Alberta) was Reimer. Which would have been an improvement but I don't know if he would have come here. But he should of just bit the bullet to get rid of Koskinen years ago.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

Don't we already have 3 buy outs on the books ?

2. Neal and Sekera.

 

[Took a pill in Sbisa]

If you just do everything else and buyout Koskinen, what available goalie that would be willing to sign here for 3 mill?
The only goalie that was signed for 3 mill or under that would be willing to come here (Holtby said no to Alberta) was Reimer. Which would have been an improvement but I don't know if he would have come here. But he should of just bit the bullet to get rid of Koskinen years ago.

Would have liked Halak. Guy puts up numbers everywhere he goes. Career 0.916 and capable of going halvsies.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Would have liked Halak. Guy puts up numbers everywhere he goes.

He is a decent backup. Although he singed in Vancouver with a full NMC so I feel like Edmonton wasn't an option for him either.

 

[bone]

Yes but Holland sucks even worse than Chiarelli at certain areas.

It's completely fair game to point out even Chiarelli made some trades that did move the needle for the team (Talbot trade, Maroon trade, even Kassian trade was OK I guess). Yes he did also stupid things, but that doesn't really absolve Holland of not even being able to win one trade for the Oilers in 3 years.

The funny thing with Chiarelli is that most of his moves up to summer 2017 (except his first one) were either nothing burgers, really good or at least improved the overall team dynamics.

That is, until he panicked about a Draisaitl offer sheet. Once he did every move he made afterwards was either nothing burger or actively worsened the team. Don't know how one guy can almost nail every move for 24 months, then basically screw up every move for the following 20 months.

 

[McDNicks17]

If you just do everything else and buyout Koskinen, what available goalie that would be willing to sign here for 3 mill?
The only goalie that was signed for 3 mill or under that would be willing to come here (Holtby said no to Alberta) was Reimer. Which would have been an improvement but I don't know if he would have come here. But he should of just bit the bullet to get rid of Koskinen years ago.

I guess the difference is I wouldn't have done everything else.

Goaltending should have been the priority. Buyout Koskinen, get a goalie, fill the rest of the roster.

 

[CycloneSweep]

I guess the difference is I wouldn't have done everything else.

Goaltending should have been the priority. Buyout Koskinen, get a goalie, fill the rest of the roster.

Instead we spent 17 mill on Keith, Barrie, Nuge and Koekkoek

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Instead we spent 17 mill on Keith, Barrie, Nuge and Koekkoek

Whenever the Oilers have a reasonably successful season they follow it up with the absolutely worst offseason.

 

[Soundwave]

The funny thing with Chiarelli is that most of his moves up to summer 2017 (except his first one) were either nothing burgers, really good or at least improved the overall team dynamics.

That is, until he panicked about a Draisaitl offer sheet. Once he did every move he made afterwards was either nothing burger or actively worsened the team. Don't know how one guy can almost nail every move for 24 months, then basically screw up every move for the following 20 months.

Nah Reinhart was an awful way to start and overpaying out the ass for a no.3 D in Hall was bad too.

 

[ToeMcDrag83]

Rinse and repeat with this organization. Perennially pathetic.

 

[bone]

Nah Reinhart was an awful way to start and overpaying out the ass for a no.3 D in Hall was bad too.

Reinhart was his first one which is why I excluded that one. Hall for Larsson was a terrible trade value, but the net effect after adding Lucic improved the team in Year 1. Predictably all that gain reversed in Year 2, but would it have if he hadn't completely shit the bed summer 2017 onwards? That we will never know.

It's amazing to look back at his final four trades. The assets Edmonton acquired as a result of those 4 trades are all out of North American hockey (except Petro in the AHL), and all the assets he gave up are currently in North American pro hockey at either NHL or AHL level including the 6th rounder he gave up (though Garrison is a stretch by this metric).

 

[Czechboy]

Fantastic read for the 'holland won several cups' crowd.

 

[oobga]

Fantastic read for the 'holland won several cups' crowd.

Was going to post that just now.

Dear lord, we could be in some huge trouble now that we're in "going for it" mode. Of course Nicholson will sit on his hands for a years past when everyone knows a disaster is in progress before pulling the plug. We're already there. That Keith trade was inexcusable already and would get a GM canned on 90% of teams.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Fantastic read for the 'holland won several cups' crowd.

It's funny because that thread doesn't mention signing Mike Smith to a two year deal.

 

[Czechboy]

Was going to post that just now.

Dear lord, we could be in some huge trouble now that we're in "going for it" mode. Of course Nicholson will sit on his hands for a years past when everyone knows a disaster is in progress before pulling the plug. We're already there. That Keith trade was inexcusable already and would get a GM canned on 90% of teams.

How many guys did he sign to their final contracts?lol. Add Keith, Kassian, Turris and Smith to the last NHL contract club.

 

[Czechboy]

It's funny because that thread doesn't mention signing Mike Smith to a two year deal.

That is weird... He's a classic greybeards signed to too much money and too many years who will never get another contract in the NHL. The Holland special.lol