Confirmed with Link: Hoffman traded to San Jose

[DrEasy]

 

[Xspyrit]

Value wise, it absolutely was the 2nd most valuable asset in the trade.

Bergman was a 2nd round pick 4 years ago and has progressed positively from all reports...

Bergman + 6th >> Donaghey + 5th

Yeah, but Boedker is better than anything in the trade after Hoffman

Assets, ranked in terms of value:
1) Hoffman
2) Boedker
3) Bergman
4) Sens 5th rounder
5) Sharks 6th rounder
6) Donaghey

This is a pretty easy evaluation I think. Apparently not for some. Boedker not being as good as he was supposed to be doesn’t make him a crap player

Yeah, I'm not absolving Dorion from making a bad move here. I'm just saying that every time a move is made where we save money at the expense of hockey value, Melnyk deserves some blame as well.

And it hasn’t started lately. « Saving money » in trades go as far as the 2011 rebuild where Murray basically got no salary back for the players he traded. Then there was the Hemsky deal, Spezza deal, Brassard deal, Phaneuf deal (x2), etc

Real money is a big factor in trades that seems to be overlooked by many fans

All I can say is that it would help to not be so « poor » compared to other teams

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Dude. Im trying to hide from these memories.

God damn Warriors.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Overlooked part of the deal is the Sens downgrading from a 5th to a 6th round pick in 2020.

Imagine having the balls to have Hoffman on the table for Boedker and Bergman, and insist on upgrading a near-worthless pick two years from now to complete the deal.

An ask like that shows that Wilson clearly has no respect for Dorion as a GM.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Overlooked part of the deal is the Sens downgrading from a 5th to a 6th round pick in 2020.

Imagine having the balls to have Hoffman on the table for Boedker and Bergman, and insist on upgrading a near-worthless pick two years from now to complete the deal.

An ask like that shows that Wilson clearly has no respect for Dorion as a GM.

even after doing so much to earn it

 

[Langdon Alger]

Overlooked part of the deal is the Sens downgrading from a 5th to a 6th round pick in 2020.

Imagine having the balls to have Hoffman on the table for Boedker and Bergman, and insist on upgrading a near-worthless pick two years from now to complete the deal.

An ask like that shows that Wilson clearly has no respect for Dorion as a GM.

Dorion probably offered the exchange of picks, Wilson couldn’t believe it and just accepted the deal.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Return for Duchene:
Top 5 pick in 2018 or 2019
Girard
Kamenev
Bowers
2nd
3rd

Return for Hoffman+Spezza+Brassard
21st overall
Gustavsson
2nd
Chiasson
Guptil
Paul
Boedker
Bergman
6th

Lol.

 

[Xspyrit]

sanjose get's cap space and they also get a 2nd, 4th, and 5th. wow

But they also gave a 7th, so it’s basically Hoffman for a 2nd and 4th, plus a slight pick upgrade; which is also a bad return for Hoffman. I really don’t see how it is much better than Boedker + Bergman.

A 2nd + 4th really doesn’t guarantee you to get the same contribution as Boedker + Bergman (who is 4 years into development) can and should. But it’s HF where futures have always had more value than actual assets.

This board is a trainwreck.

Hahaha sincerely it has always been but it is expected right now with all the crap going on, even if there is a lot of dramatization. So many opinions, which is fine to have different opinions but it’s a bit all over the place.

Like in this thread, people are talking about Boedker being a cap dump since he has a 4,0 cap hit, but Ottawa hasn’t been close to being a cap team in almost a decade so they’re looking at the wrong thing (cap hit vs actual salary). Cap hits are completely irrelevant for Ottawa. Boedker is a solid player at a 3.0 M$ cost per year.

They are also focusing on a slight pick downgrade in 2 years while omitting that the Sens also swap a non-prospect for a real prospect.

The focus should be on losing Hoffman (legit 1st liner) for a middle six winger, but yet we are barely talking about it and instead focusing on meaningless stuff. Getting Boedker is good to possibly solidify the top-9 but losing Hoffman hurts. I am now hoping the Sens could get a hand on Schevnikov/Zadina and/or sign a top-6 forward in the free agency to offset that loss

Finally, what hits me the most on HF is the inability to properly assess trades and player values, the NHL market, etc. You would think that after all this time, people would get a better grip on it, with all the available info on cap geek then cap friendly, trade tracker sites, etc.

 

[Xspyrit]

We literally just traded Cole, who universally would be agreed upon as more valuable, for a 3rd 2 years from now. I see no way we get a 2nd for Boedker.

Well, no idea why Dorion had to trade Cole for a 3rd. I’d much rather have Cole... I liked the return for Brassard but could have been better by keeping Cole who is a solid NHLer

Not that it matters, but it's 3m per in actual salary.

How come it doesn’t matter? On the contrary, his salary matters 100% and his cap hit 0%, so much that the cap hits shouldn’t even be mentioned for Ottawa, as long as there isn’t an ownership with the financial power to inject more money in the team. I mean it has been a reality a bit hard to ignore for a while now.

Sorry Ottawa, in typical Bettman fashion Quebec City is getting the franchise.

This ship has sailed. There is several more attractive markets for the NHL. Ottawa could be fine with a new arena and/or new ownership with better finances

So let me get this straight, the Sharks look like geniuses for flipping Hoffman to the Panthers for a 2019 2nd pick and a 4th and 5th in this years draft, who by the way may all turn out to be nobodies in the NHL, BUT the Sens get blasted for trading Hoffman for Boedker, when we all knew their backs were against the wall, while considering that Boedker can be an effective two way player in the NHL at the very least. Am I missing something?

Yes, Sharks also gave up a 7th. It might be a meaningless piece to some but if you are listing the 5th, you need to mention the 7th

I don’t know where people got this. A 2nd and 4th isn’t really a better package than Boedker and Bergman

Yes. Context.

So what is your understanding of the context? I’m curious

 

[Xspyrit]

Zadina	Duchene	Stone
Boedker	Pageau	Dzingel
Smith	White	Ryan
Paajarvi	Chlapik	Pyatt

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I think those lines would work better :

Zadina-Duchene-Dzingel
Ryan-Pageau-Stone
Smith-White-Boedker
Paajarvi-Chlapik-Pyatt
McCormick

I think Brown makes the team, pushing Pageau to 3rd line C, making Smith expendable to save more salary (and get a pick)

Boedker-Pageau-White could be a very interesting 3rd line then

Of course we’re depending on many IFs (IF Zadina and Brown are good, IF Ryan anse Stone can stay healthy, IF Dzingel can be as good as last year and even build on it, etc) but that forward group could actually be better than we think. Lot of speed and some skill. Although I’m scared we’ll be lacking big time shots... and experience

That's VERY optimistic for Duchene and Ryan

Really? Ryan despite having 2 injury plagued seasons has paced at 38 pts per 82 games the last 2 years (44 just looking at last season). If he can stay relatively healthy, he easily hits 40 pts, probably even 50

Duchene had 59 pts last season, despite a long adjustment period with Ottawa

He did so once(19 goals) and that was 5 seasons ago.

Fun game we're playing.

I know the trend is to alter the facts to fit our own narrative but are you serious here?

He did it 3 times (19, 17 and 15) and also had 14 goals in 45 games one year.... So he did it 4 times (or paced over) in the last 5 years... just not in his first year with the Sharks where he had a miserable season for some reason

Boedker is a 15-25 guy. Hoffman is a 25-35 guy

Preparing to see Stone go to arbitration with a one year deal and Duchene walking because we gave their money to Boedker.

Is it sarcasm or something? If we can’t extend any of Karlsson, Stone or Duchene because Boedker makes 3.0 M$ per year, then yes I want the team out of Ottawa ASAP.

Carolina: Aho, Teravainen, Williams
NYR: Zuccarello, Zibanejad, Hayes
NJ: Hall, Hischier, Butcher
Detroit: Larkin, Zetterberg, Mantha
Florida: Barkov, Trochek, Huberdeau
Columbus: Panarin, Jones, Dubois
Montreal: Gallagher, Pacioretty, Drouin
Buffalo: Eichel, O'Reilly, Reinhart

I'll remove NYI since I forgot about Barzal, but which of those would you take over Karlsson, Duchene and Stone?

Only Florida is close. NYI it depends what happens with Tavares...

 

[JD1]

we save a little over 2m in salary which helps with re-signing some of what we need to sign. Hoffman had to go and although we weren't going to get premium value for him Boedker is a legit nhl winger.

Take away the name. 2ND round pick. former world Junior player. 3 years ahl seasoning. I like that profile for a young D. But I don't know anything about the player. I do know just from a profIle view that his profile looks better than many young D in our system that guys here think highly of.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Take away the name. 2ND round pick. former world Junior player. 3 years ahl seasoning. I like that profile for a young D. But I don't know anything about the player. I do know just from a profIle view that his profile looks better than many young D in our system that guys here think highly of.

Like who? The only real notable D prospects in the system would be Jaros and Lajoie. I'd put him below Lajoie, probably around Englund who's looking like nothing more than a depth player. I would rather have a 4th or 5th round pick over the player, but I understand they desperately need depth in Belleville, just wish Belleville depth wasn't one of the primary assets involved in a trade for our top LW.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

The trade return was always gonna be **** after the ****storm, so begs the question why your boss didn't trade him in February when he could have gotten a much better haul?

Until you confirm otherwise, I believe you to be Randy Lee btw.

Can't answer that question, until we know exactly when the Hoffman/Fiance social media thing became known as the prime suspects, to the point of the Karlssons filing in court, which was in May.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

This team feels like it's on a constant rotation of substitute teachers in the classroom. No accountability, no control, no respect between teacher, pupil or peers. And nothing being accomplished.

So perhaps keeping, and letting GB coach for three years is a good thing, as long as he asks for accountability, and the players expect it from each other?

 

[bert]

So perhaps keeping, and letting GB coach for three years is a good thing, as long as he asks for accountability, and the players expect it from each other?

And he changes his entire approach to coaching to a puck possession and pressure team that doesn't force players to play out of position due to their playing style.

Or maybe ya know just spending money on an established coach would be something that could solidify the position and probably save the organization money instead of paying 3 coachs at once.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

So perhaps keeping, and letting GB coach for three years is a good thing, as long as he asks for accountability, and the players expect it from each other?

What gives the impression Boucher holds anyone accountable? He routinely gives struggling veterans like Oduya or Ceci huge roles when they make mistake after mistake while younger players like White or Chabot can be banished to the minors or press box for out playing the likes of Burrows or Smith or Ceci.

I'd say a big part of the leadership and accountability problems with this team lie directly on Boucher's shoulders. He displays obvious favouritism and refuses to play an optimal lineup to serve his own agenda.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

So perhaps keeping, and letting GB coach for three years is a good thing, as long as he asks for accountability, and the players expect it from each other?

.... and , perhaps it isn't

 

[BonkTastic]

So this is still a thing that happened, right?

I just want to make sure yesterday wasn't some grotesque fever dream.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Hoffman had to go.

Our return was better than what Florida paid, for us anyways.

We clearly wanted NHL players who could play in the NHL, instead of a few low percentage maybe's several years from now.

We need quality players who can play in the bottom six, or step up if necessary, especially with a bunch of kids in n the lineup, and we wanted youngish vets who play 'the right way' and have a motor. I'd take that over a 2rp sometime in the future.

It sucks that the scandal killed what value Hoffman had, but it is what it is. Our room will be better now by addition and subtraction here. The reality is that if your room is fractured you're not going anywhere, and it makes a lot of sense thinking about how badly we played as a team last year.

Is EK a problem in the room as per rumours? Can't get clouded by the names on the back, the team will only go as far as the chemistry in the room will take them.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

With this team , being a problem in the room is just as likely a voice of reason. I know everyone has to row in the same direction to get the boat moving but .. there has been a lot to be dissatisfied with. Karlsson being a team leader has to be part of the group to pull the team together... but if he is not behind where Dorion and Boucher want to go .. that is an issue .. but I would tend to side with Karlsson on it.

GMs manage, Coaches coach, and Players play... there seems to be something missing there because Karlsson does play and play well. What happens when one or both of the first two are messed up.

 

[Qward]

So, I just looked on cap friendly. Without Boedker, if Karlsson and Ryan are traded to Vegas, the Sens would be below the floor. That's even after giving Stone 8, Ceci 4, and Claesson 1.3.
I really think Karlsson is gone by July 2nd.

 

[RICKY SPANISH]

Return for Duchene:
Top 5 pick in 2018 or 2019
Girard
Kamenev
Bowers
2nd
3rd

Return for Hoffman+Spezza+Brassard
21st overall
Gustavsson
2nd
Chiasson
Guptil
Paul
Boedker
Bergman
6th

Lol.

Present it however you want to fit your narrative. However, of the 3 we traded, we were dealing only 1 from a position of strength (Brassard), for which the return was adequate.

In reality, it's fairly obvious why the return would be lower than in some fantasy world of value for the other 2/3.

 

[GrumpyKelly]

Did Hoffman play RW at all for you guys?

 

[Ice-Tray]

I love how people continue to include Preds players in their ‘return for Duchene lists.

We didn’t give the Avs any of those guys, but hey, don’t let that get in your way!

We traded Turris and two firsts for a number one NHL centreman, who is arguably the best forward on the team, and a legit Team Canada player. The two other guys were given to the Avs by the preds for Turris.

Personally I think we paid a high price for an excellent player, while the Preds paid a high price for a good player. We have come out great from the trade player-wise, while the preds may be losers. The Avs look like winners too, though we did well to protect the pick, and the Preds are a big reason why the Avs should be happy.

If for some reason Duche doesn’t re-sign that would affect the overall trade for sure, but as of right now we got the best player in the deal, a young number one centre, who plays the game the way we never seem to be able to play since losing Alfie and Hossa.

Some posters like to blame this trade for our downfall this year, but along with bad goaltending & and EK paying as a shell of his former self, we’re starting to see how toxic the dressing room has been all season with Hoffman, and perhaps EK as well.

Going forward with Stone and Duchene up front is an excellent core to add young players to, and two guys that model playing hickey the right way for our kids.

 

[stempniaksen]

Did Hoffman play RW at all for you guys?

Yes