Speculation: Hockey Ops Roulette (The Chayka Syndrome)

[cobra427]

We need an experienced GM and an experienced head coach. For the GM, we need somebody that has tasted some success as a GM even if fired for some failures. Having the success, then being fired, puts you in a position where you can learn from your mistakes but also know what it takes to put a good team together. The same goes for a coach. We need a coach who has had success as a head coach at the NHL level, even though they all get fired eventually.

With Chayka and RT we had neither. We had an inexperienced GM, never done it before, and a head coach that had never won at that level as a head coach. That combination is the primary reason the rebuild has failed, lack of experience. Muerello is an experienced operator, hope he can see through all of this and make the right changes, get us an experienced, proven, GM and coach.

 

[Jakey53]

Lack of experience should absolutely be a disqualifier.

Additionally, I don’t think Doan has the temperament. I don’t think he will ever be a good GM. He’ll never fire or trade anyone and he’ll overpay everyone.

Today Doan does not qualify for a GM's position, but if he ever does become a GM his loyalty will be different than that of a player. He was a very passionate captain and player who would go thru the wall for any player.

 

[Mosby]

Florida board seems to think Armstrong (Blues AGM) is getting a second interview as well.

Fine by me, I don’t want him.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I don’t think Doan has the temperament

Doan played the game with more piss and vinegar than anyone in the current lineup. He comes across as a nice guy, but I don't think he would be a pushover as GM. That said if he's interested in front office work an AGM position would be a good way to get his foot in the door.

 

[rt]

Doan played the game with more piss and vinegar than anyone in the current lineup. He comes across as a nice guy, but I don't think he would be a pushover as GM. That said if he's interested in front office work an AGM position would be a good way to get his foot in the door.

He comes across as extraordinarily loyal, positive, and Pollyanna. The qualities that make a great captain are not necessarily the qualities that make a great GM. Many of the best GMs are lawyers. They went to law school and became attorneys. I would argue that a really good player-agent is more more qualified to be a GM than a really good captain.

 

[rt]

Florida board seems to think Armstrong (Blues AGM) is getting a second interview as well.

Fine by me, I don’t want him.

Well, all of these guys are certainly going to have a lot of practice and really have honed their pitches by the time we get them. Haha. Will make it tough. Might put Sullivan a little more in jeopardy, too. All the guys Florida doesn't pick are going to come in pretty sharp and pretty motivated.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

He comes across as extraordinarily loyal, positive, and Pollyanna. The qualities that make a great captain are not necessarily the qualities that make a great GM. Many of the best GMs are lawyers. They went to law school and became attorneys. I would argue that a really good player-agent is more more qualified to be a GM than a really good captain.

I think you're dwelling too much on a couple of stories from over half a decade ago, when Doan was unhappy with a couple of trades because the players involved were his friends. I mean, we all remember that pretty clearly, but I think that radically oversimplifies the guy to say he'd approach every life moment the same way. Why don't we also talk about when Doan went to talk personally with Bettman and sold him and the BoG on fighting to keep the Coyotes where they are instead of relocating them? He'd have to have some sort of ability to negotiate to pull that off - especially knowing now (in the context of our recent sanctions) how many of the BoG would gladly see the Mutts euthanized.

I don't for a second want Doaner as our GM because we need someone with experience, and while I'm sure he will eventually make a great GM if he wants to be one, I don't want him learning on the job here. But I think when the time comes he'd be extremely capable at it.

 

[rt]

I think you're dwelling too much on a couple of stories from over half a decade ago, when Doan was unhappy with a couple of trades because the players involved were his friends. I mean, we all remember that pretty clearly, but I think that radically oversimplifies the guy to say he'd approach every life moment the same way. Why don't we also talk about when Doan went to talk personally with Bettman and sold him and the BoG on fighting to keep the Coyotes where they are instead of relocating them? He'd have to have some sort of ability to negotiate to pull that off - especially knowing now (in the context of our recent sanctions) how many of the BoG would gladly see the Mutts euthanized.

I don't for a second want Doaner as our GM because we need someone with experience, and while I'm sure he will eventually make a great GM if he wants to be one, I don't want him learning on the job here. But I think when the time comes he'd be extremely capable at it.

I'm not attacking Shane Doan. He's above reproach.

At the very least, he needs to spend a year or two working in the development department, then a year or two running the development department, then a year or two managing Tucson. Assuming he has success at each stop that justifies promotion to the next level, he'll be ready to be considered for an NHL GM gig in 3-6 (realistically 4-5) years at that point.

Steve Sullivan did it. His advancement was fast-tracked due to this team being desperate and without resources. Shane Doan can be equally fast-tracked because he's a legend. But if he can't at least match Steve Sullivan's performance in these roles, he should never be considered for the GM position.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Well, all of these guys are certainly going to have a lot of practice and really have honed their pitches by the time we get them. Haha. Will make it tough. Might put Sullivan a little more in jeopardy, too. All the guys Florida doesn't pick are going to come in pretty sharp and pretty motivated.

The pitch to us needs to be unique to the God awful situation we find ourselves in, chock full of just how the hell they would work through it. It would be foolish to pitch us same as Florida.

 

[Jakey53]

Well, all of these guys are certainly going to have a lot of practice and really have honed their pitches by the time we get them. Haha. Will make it tough. Might put Sullivan a little more in jeopardy, too. All the guys Florida doesn't pick are going to come in pretty sharp and pretty motivated.

...and maybe a bit more desperate and cheaper?

 

[rt]

The pitch to us needs to be unique to the God awful situation we find ourselves in, chock full of just how the hell they would work through it. It would be foolish to pitch us same as Florida.

Florida is also looking to cut salary drastically, keep the young core, and rebuild the vets on the fly. We're in similar situations, ours is just much, much worse.

 

[TheLegend]

Y'all keep forgetting Doan has spent the last two years working for the NHL in various capacities.

Y'all keep forgetting he played a big part of getting the last work stoppage resolved.

I'm not keen on him filling a GM spot either but to pigeon hole Doan as some greenhorn in the front office is a bad presumption.

 

[rt]

Y'all keep forgetting Doan has spent the last two years working for the NHL in various capacities.

Y'all keep forgetting he played a big part of getting the last work stoppage resolved.

I'm not keen on him filling a GM spot either but to pigeon hole Doan as some greenhorn in the front office is a bad presumption.

I'd love some specifics on this. Prove to me that it's not very minor, token, make work stuff because he's a good guy. Show me specifics that he's doing important work and was legitimately an important player in these situations. I have serious doubts.

 

[XX]

Y'all keep forgetting Doan has spent the last two years working for the NHL in various capacities.

Y'all keep forgetting he played a big part of getting the last work stoppage resolved.

All of those things were administrative. They had nothing to do with player evaluation or managing a cap or making trades etc... Sullivan put in the work and has something to show for it. Doan hasn't. He is 100% a greenhorn. It would be different if he spent time as part of the staff of a particular team all these years and was soaking up the GM process.

Doan would make a great VP, provided he doesn't have undue say in hockey decisions.

 

[TheLegend]

All of those things were administrative. They had nothing to do with player evaluation or managing a cap or making trades etc... Sullivan put in the work and has something to show for it. Doan hasn't. He is 100% a greenhorn. It would be different if he spent time as part of the staff of a particular team all these years and was soaking up the GM process.

Doan would make a great VP, provided he doesn't have undue say in hockey decisions.

In the last line of my post you conveniently left off..... I stated I didn't see him in a GM role.

However..... making sure your scouting department are fully informed of league policies is an administrative function.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Florida is also looking to cut salary drastically, keep the young core, and rebuild the vets on the fly. We're in similar situations, ours is just much, much worse.

I'm a guess w/o looking that they they have some early pics, I know they didn't have any taken away.

 

[Stumbledore]

In the last line of my post you conveniently left off..... I stated I didn't see him in a GM role.

However..... making sure your scouting department are fully informed of league policies is an administrative function.

"A hit, a very palpable hit."

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Jonathan Davis from the two man advantage was just on Sirius NHL Network stating that Sullivan and RT have a strained relationship and that one of the two will be gone. I now want Sullivan as GM

 

[rt]

Jonathan Davis from the two man advantage was just on Sirius NHL Network stating that Sullivan and RT have a strained relationship and that one of the two will be gone. I now want Sullivan as GM

What?!?!? What?!?!? Is this true?!? Link?!?!?

 

[TheLegend]

"A hit, a very palpable hit."

Indeed......

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Yeah...I'll take Sullivan as GM immediately if he will fire Tocchet.

 

[rt]

Jonathan Davis from the two man advantage was just on Sirius NHL Network stating that Sullivan and RT have a strained relationship and that one of the two will be gone. I now want Sullivan as GM

Is there a way to listen to this? Does it come out as a podcast afterwards or anything like that?

 

[rt]

Yeah...I'll take Sullivan as GM immediately if he will fire Tocchet.

If it turns out that Sullivan and Tocchet don’t get along for hockey reasons and don’t see eye to eye on hockey stuff, that says volumes about Sullivan. In a positive way.

 

[cobra427]

Yeah...I'll take Sullivan as GM immediately if he will fire Tocchet.

Sully is the front runner for me now if that is accurate

 

[XX]

Jonathan Davis from the two man advantage was just on Sirius NHL Network stating that Sullivan and RT have a strained relationship and that one of the two will be gone. I now want Sullivan as GM

I don't like this given that it implies Tocchet still has a chance of staying.