Hockey History

[Deebs]

He's a transcending skater without question but that's it. He's not head and shoulders better than everybody else in the league. He's not a Wayne, Mario, Bobby.... Of course that's just my opinion.

Click to read more...

 

[ArtPeur]

He's a transcending skater without question but that's it. He's not head and shoulders better than everybody else in the league. He's not a Wayne, Mario, Bobby.... Of course that's just my opinion.

That's it?

He's constantly one of the top scorers every season. He was already dominating in his 2nd season. He's more than just skating and speed. It feels like you're comparing him to Byron

._.

 

[Mrb1p]

He's a transcending skater without question but that's it. He's not head and shoulders better than everybody else in the league. He's not a Wayne, Mario, Bobby.... Of course that's just my opinion.

He is though, lol. Same with Crosby, and Ovechkin as a goalscorer.

 

[LaP]

Hockey fans in 20 years.

- "Dmen were so slow in the 2020 no way he would be able to do this in 2040."
- "Yeah he would barely do 80 points in the current NHL".
- "Man those dmen could not even pivot both side let alone skate".
- "He really was not that great 2nd liners today are better hockey has evolved so much in the last 20 years".

 

[LaP]

Nobody in the NHL right now is a generational player. People need to stop using that term so liberally.

Ovechkin might very well be the best goal scorer of all time and this is coming from a mid life guy who watched hockey in the 80ies and who always defend the old players when people stupidly say Gretzky could barely do 100 points in today's NHL. If Ovechkin, Crosby and McJesus are not generational then nothing is.

 

[sandviper]

He's a transcending skater without question but that's it. He's not head and shoulders better than everybody else in the league. He's not a Wayne, Mario, Bobby.... Of course that's just my opinion.

Just gonna assume we’re close in age since you’ve mentioned 99, 66 and 4 (I assume). To me, McD is at least on Mario’s level, who I thought was better than Gretzky when looking at their peaks.

McDavid can do so much more than just skate; he can shoot, he can pass, his IQ and ability to process the game so fast is nuts. Package all of this in a 6’2 frame and plays center.

I mean, when he completely dummied Rielly, that was so much more than just skating. The fake out, recognizing the pivot from Rielly and turning on the jets at full speed is god level stuff.

I suppose many others are super elite as well; Drai and McK can make cases, as well as current godly players such as Crosby and Ovechkin.

It’s a different time now and super teams don’t really exist as we knew them in the 70s to 90s. McDavid isn’t perfect, but this guy has won games by himself. In today’s NHL, that puts him in a different category.

I wasa little young to recall much of Lafleur and Bossy at their peaks, but I’ve seen Gretzky and Lemieux... I would have no issue if anyone says McDavid in the same sentence.

 

[Deebs]

Just gonna assume we’re close in age since you’ve mentioned 99, 66 and 4 (I assume). To me, McD is at least on Mario’s level, who I thought was better than Gretzky when looking at their peaks.

McDavid can do so much more than just skate; he can shoot, he can pass, his IQ and ability to process the game so fast is nuts. Package all of this in a 6’2 frame and plays center.

I mean, when he completely dummied Rielly, that was so much more than just skating. The fake out, recognizing the pivot from Rielly and turning on the jets at full speed is god level stuff.

I suppose many others are super elite as well; Drai and McK can make cases, as well as current godly players such as Crosby and Ovechkin.

It’s a different time now and super teams don’t really exist as we knew them in the 70s to 90s. McDavid isn’t perfect, but this guy has won games by himself. In today’s NHL, that puts him in a different category.

I wasa little young to recall much of Lafleur and Bossy at their peaks, but I’ve seen Gretzky and Lemieux... I would have no issue if anyone says McDavid in the same sentence.

I disagree with most of what you say here but it's all good, differences of opinions make for good conversations.

 

[redgrant]

Uh, McDavid?

Would put the generational players as gretzky Lemieux.

Next Gen Lidstrom alone.

Crosby Ovechkin most recently.

McDavid in a class of his own. Lol no Matthews is not generational. You need to be in the conversation for the hart Ross if you're "generational" and a centre on your team.

 

[Legend123]

Would put the generational players as gretzky Lemieux.

Next Gen Lidstrom alone.

Crosby Ovechkin most recently.

McDavid in a class of his own. Lol no Matthews is not generational. You need to be in the conversation for the hart Ross if you're "generational" and a centre on your team.

what? where did u pop up from?

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Just gonna assume we’re close in age since you’ve mentioned 99, 66 and 4 (I assume). To me, McD is at least on Mario’s level, who I thought was better than Gretzky when looking at their peaks.

McDavid can do so much more than just skate; he can shoot, he can pass, his IQ and ability to process the game so fast is nuts. Package all of this in a 6’2 frame and plays center.

I mean, when he completely dummied Rielly, that was so much more than just skating. The fake out, recognizing the pivot from Rielly and turning on the jets at full speed is god level stuff.

I suppose many others are super elite as well; Drai and McK can make cases, as well as current godly players such as Crosby and Ovechkin.

It’s a different time now and super teams don’t really exist as we knew them in the 70s to 90s. McDavid isn’t perfect, but this guy has won games by himself. In today’s NHL, that puts him in a different category.

I wasa little young to recall much of Lafleur and Bossy at their peaks, but I’ve seen Gretzky and Lemieux... I would have no issue if anyone says McDavid in the same sentence.

Doesn’t come close to Mario/Wayne in offensive ability. Not in the same stratosphere imo.

 

[Habs]

Would put the generational players as gretzky Lemieux.

Next Gen Lidstrom alone.

Crosby Ovechkin most recently.

McDavid in a class of his own. Lol no Matthews is not generational. You need to be in the conversation for the hart Ross if you're "generational" and a centre on your team.

I hate everything about the Leafs, but Matthews may be generational

Doesn’t come close to Mario/Wayne in offensive ability. Not in the same stratosphere imo.

Take those 90's and 80's stats with a grain of salt, Probert was potting 20 back in the day. Goalies were awful, nobody backchecked. If McJesus, Tavares, Stamkos etc played back in the day they would have destroyed with the skill level they have right now. I've been watching since the 70's and I can't think of but 2 players that skate like any of these kids, or who have the shot of Ovechkin.. that one timer. Try and find deadly one timers bakc in teh day, they don't exist. Sure wayne and mario were exceptional, but he could not skate anywhere like the kids today.

Shit, players smoked between periods still in the late 80's.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I hate everything about the Leafs, but Matthews may be generational


Take those 90's and 80's stats with a grain of salt, Probert was potting 20 back in the day. Goalies were awful, nobody backchecked. If McJesus, Tavares, Stamkos etc played back in the day they would have destroyed with the skill level they have right now. I've been watching since the 70's and I can't think of but 2 players that skate like any of these kids, or who have the shot of Ovechkin.. that one timer. Try and find deadly one timers bakc in teh day, they don't exist. Sure wayne and mario were exceptional, but he could not skate anywhere like the kids today.

Shit, players smoked between periods still in the late 80's.

Mario and Wayne would be winning scoring races by 30-40 points every year on repeat. It’s not close.

 

[Habs]

Mario and Wayne would be winning scoring races by 30-40 points every year on repeat. It’s not close.

I disagree, but we will never know. 99 never had a shot like these kids, Mario did.

 

[River Meadow]

Just gonna assume we’re close in age since you’ve mentioned 99, 66 and 4 (I assume). To me, McD is at least on Mario’s level, who I thought was better than Gretzky when looking at their peaks.

McDavid can do so much more than just skate; he can shoot, he can pass, his IQ and ability to process the game so fast is nuts. Package all of this in a 6’2 frame and plays center.

I mean, when he completely dummied Rielly, that was so much more than just skating. The fake out, recognizing the pivot from Rielly and turning on the jets at full speed is god level stuff.

I suppose many others are super elite as well; Drai and McK can make cases, as well as current godly players such as Crosby and Ovechkin.

It’s a different time now and super teams don’t really exist as we knew them in the 70s to 90s. McDavid isn’t perfect, but this guy has won games by himself. In today’s NHL, that puts him in a different category.

I wasa little young to recall much of Lafleur and Bossy at their peaks, but I’ve seen Gretzky and Lemieux... I would have no issue if anyone says McDavid in the same sentence.

IMO,

McDavid is great but he is NOT on Lemieux's nor Gretzky's level.

Would you honestly say this if McDavid was Russian or any other nationality than Canadian?

I don't think McDavid is even as good as prime Jagr.

 

[Sorinth]

Take those 90's and 80's stats with a grain of salt, Probert was potting 20 back in the day. Goalies were awful, nobody backchecked. If McJesus, Tavares, Stamkos etc played back in the day they would have destroyed with the skill level they have right now. I've been watching since the 70's and I can't think of but 2 players that skate like any of these kids, or who have the shot of Ovechkin.. that one timer. Try and find deadly one timers bakc in teh day, they don't exist. Sure wayne and mario were exceptional, but he could not skate anywhere like the kids today.

Shit, players smoked between periods still in the late 80's.

On the flip side those guys had wood sticks instead of the carbon fibre ones that today's players have so is it fair to compare their shots like that?

 

[Mrb1p]

Mario and Wayne would be winning scoring races by 30-40 points every year on repeat. It’s not close.

Especially Mario, the man has the best tools ever, complete machine of a man until he broke down. He was like a Ferrari.

 

[River Meadow]

Especially Mario, the man has the best tools ever, complete machine of a man until he broke down. He was like a Ferrari.

Yep. Even when he broke down.... playing with basically a broken back, older... STILL dominates.

There's way more to this than just skating really really fast, which is McDavid's bread and butter.

The amount of hockey sense and hockey IQ, was literally like 200 IQ.

 

[Habs]

On the flip side those guys had wood sticks instead of the carbon fibre ones that today's players have so is it fair to compare their shots like that?

Yeah, for sure, but the goalies were so small back then, and generally awful. So many bad players had a ton of points in the late 80's and 90's, I mean Jason Allison could hardly skate and he was an allstar. I really don't think we can appreciate how bad the general player was bad in the day, because the game was so different. Tons of untalented goons, goalies that were 5'9 and covered 1/4 of the net, zero backchecking. BTW this was my favorite time to be a fan, but hockey was a different game 25 years ago. Watch an hour of 99's highlights, they are hilarious how bad the defense and goaltending were. He rarely would snipe a one-timer, to say he was protected is an understatement. If he was treated like Crosby out there, with the headshots and hits, he wouldn't be half the player he was.

I have half a dozen good friends who played in the NHL, they are the first to say the kids today are 2x the players from their glory days in the 90's. Of course the legends would still be amazing players in today's game, but no way 99 is potting 70 goals, he could never shoot the puck like Ovechkin, not even close.

 

[domiwroze]

Suzuki and Anderson are our version of Backstrom and Wilson. Signing Ovi would be a game-changer.

Ovechkin - Suzuki - Anderson

It would be the best Habs line in 25 years

Ovy on any lines would be the best Habs line in 25 years

 

[supsens]

Yeah, for sure, but the goalies were so small back then, and generally awful. So many bad players had a ton of points in the late 80's and 90's, I mean Jason Allison could hardly skate and he was an allstar. I really don't think we can appreciate how bad the general player was bad in the day, because the game was so different. Tons of untalented goons, goalies that were 5'9 and covered 1/4 of the net, zero backchecking. BTW this was my favorite time to be a fan, but hockey was a different game 25 years ago. Watch an hour of 99's highlights, they are hilarious how bad the defense and goaltending were. He rarely would snipe a one-timer, to say he was protected is an understatement. If he was treated like Crosby out there, with the headshots and hits, he wouldn't be half the player he was.

I have half a dozen good friends who played in the NHL, they are the first to say the kids today are 2x the players from their glory days in the 90's. Of course the legends would still be amazing players in today's game, but no way 99 is potting 70 goals, he could never shoot the puck like Ovechkin, not even close.

A super old super slow Jagr had zero problems playing in this era, a young jagr would destroy these guys and he was not even close to 66 and 99.
Watch goal highlights from any era and the goalies and D look bad, they got beat..

 

[sandviper]

Doesn’t come close to Mario/Wayne in offensive ability. Not in the same stratosphere imo.

That’s fair but anyone who says McDavid can’t do nothing more than skate fast is off their rocker in my opinion.

 

[River Meadow]

That’s fair but anyone who says McDavid can’t do nothing more than skate fast is off their rocker in my opinion.

I hope you didn't get that from my posts, because if so.. yikes.

 

[Riggins]

Yep. Even when he broke down.... playing with basically a broken back, older... STILL dominates.

There's way more to this than just skating really really fast, which is McDavid's bread and butter.

The amount of hockey sense and hockey IQ, was literally like 200 IQ.

Mario came back at 35 years old after 3 years off and was the best player in the world still that season. Freakin beast.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Especially Mario, the man has the best tools ever, complete machine of a man until he broke down. He was like a Ferrari.

Mario definitely had the most raw talent of any player in history, but ppl tend to undersell Wayne’s talent imo.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Mario definitely had the most raw talent of any player in history, but ppl tend to undersell Wayne’s talent imo.

I think Mario Lemieux is the greatest player of all time.

Wayne Gretzky had the greatest career. That is indisputable. But if I had to choose one for a seven game series assuming they're both at 100% and healthy in their prime - I'd take Lemieux.